Why is thrall so powerful?

[apepi]

I think it depends where on Draenor the Shamans call to the elements. Shadowmoon Valley's elements were still in upheaval by the time we left the zone, Netherstorm appears void of anything natural outside of the Eco-Domes and Hellfire's not much better. The Elements answer the Earthen Ring Shaman's call in Nagrand with the more powerful among them standing alongside the Earthen Ring at their spot.

So location can matter....

I really do not understand why they did not choice Therazane instead of Thrall. From a player perspective I can see how they would want to advance the players perspective but on term of just lore Therazane would have been a far better choice. Neth was the Earthwarden, Therazane is the earth Elemental Lord. Thrall would end up just kind of channeling her powers? Why not get her to cut out the middle man? Then the shamans could assist Therazane like they did with Thrall, though maybe they did not trust her? Only real reason I can think of not letting her do it.

[The Madgod]

So location can matter....

I really do not understand why they did not choice Therazane instead of Thrall. From a player perspective I can see how they would want to advance the players perspective but on term of just lore Therazane would have been a far better choice. Neth was the Earthwarden, Therazane is the earth Elemental Lord. Thrall would end up just kind of channeling her powers? Why not get her to cut out the middle man? Then the shamans could assist Therazane like they did with Thrall, though maybe they did not trust her? Only real reason I can think of not letting her do it.

Because it takes a shitton of magic to summon an elemental lord to the physical plane (See the molten core and all the trouble the Dark Iron went through to get Ragnaros) and they were in a pinch... as well Therazane already showed she was kinda isolationist and just wanted to be left alone, so it would be simpler to just compel a shaman to do this work as they are a) far more likely to say "sure" and b) they're already in the physical plane and thus do not need a complicated and draining ritual to bring them there.

On a more humorous note, I'm sure the Aspects would have also appreciated not having to drag Therazane from Northrend to the Maelstrom to be able to deal with Deathwing (because Light knows that the gunship wouldn't have supported her weight).

Plus... there's no evidence that shaman channel the powers of the elemental lords. In fact, there's evidence to the contrary. No shaman would have been able to wield fire or wind during the Cataclysm if their powers were truly connected to Ragnaros or Al'Akir. The elemental spirits are a different sort of entity than elementals, who are simply the physical, sentient manifestations of an element, rather than the element itself. They are significantly connected and can be considered parts of the same entity, but they aren't one and the same.

[apepi]

Plus... there's no evidence that shaman channel the powers of the elemental lords. In fact, there's evidence to the contrary. No shaman would have been able to wield fire or wind during the Cataclysm if their powers were truly connected to Ragnaros or Al'Akir. The elemental spirits are a different sort of entity than elementals, who are simply the physical, sentient manifestations of an element, rather than the element itself.

I understand that...but would you rather a person who simply borrows powers from someone or someone who is the manifestaion of the element that it would be replacing?

Though I would be ironic for an elemental lord(made(?) from old gods) to interact with the dragon aspects(empowered by the titans) because they are in fact kind of rivals:}.

[The Madgod]

I understand that...but would you rather a person who simply borrows powers from someone or someone who is the manifestaion of the element that it would be replacing?

It's here that I again make a point on something being optimal and something being practical.

Personally I'd prefer the practical. Keeps things more grounded. I would have felt them getting Therazane to take part in this to have been a much larger stretch than getting a shaman to do it. Would have taken away a lot from the story.

[The Stormbringer]

Thrall is such a powerful shaman that he wears plate armor.

Used to. He's downgraded to leather, or maybe cloth now.

Also, it's been my understanding since Warcraft 3 that he's always been very powerful. Farseers, the hero unit he was based off of, were the most powerful Orcish shaman around. Thrall happened to be a really strong one, and over time his power has only grown with his experience. Plus there was the whole, 'the spirits and elements responded very well to him' thing, as well as becoming the first new shaman after betraying the spirits back on Draenor. Then he got power boosted after his training trip to Outland, and again when he was split into four and recombined. So, yeah... he's done more than most shaman ever have, and had more crazy elemental and spirit related things happen to him. Kinda makes sense he's so strong.

You can easily draw some parallels to Jaina too.

[Narveid]

Heh, the problem of Alliance players is that they see everything awesome because they look at it...as Alliance players. As Horde player the feeling of uneasy when you do all this is palpable, because, no matter how much Blizzard twist the thing (even if is a reasonable twisting) in the more positive way, you are fighting your own faction. No two ways about it. There is no pumping fist moment, heck, the main villain of this expansion is the one supposed to be your faction leader. It's so incredibly downrating that make me almost laugh.

See everything as awesome? I can't really agree with that. You can't expect them to think everything is awesome no matter the quality of implementation just because we are attacking Orgrimmar. Would they think it was awesome if there was no real Alliance people even in 5.4? Doubtful. Would they feel its awesome if they only aid the Horde in every endeavor? Doubtful.

And meh .. I am a Horde player, I think the attack on Razor Hill is pretty fist pumping .. Sort of lost the feel for Garrosh in 5.1 when he told Lor'themar that "Hey, I sent your people to your death, just because. I COULD have just given you a heads up, would've taken me like 5 seconds, but I cba." The idiocy is absolutely astounding. Looking forward to removing him.

[Yriel]

I've been a lore-junkie of all the books, and I still don't know how Thrall got to be the Worlds most powerful Shaman.

Only times I've seen him use his shamanistic powers prior to the Cataclysm was to ask the elements for advice, to help him out in Lord of the Clans, or to seek further advice in the Shattering (which came after Metzen announcing him being the future "Azeroth's most powerful Shaman")

He was shown as a really powerful shaman in the battle for undercity. That was during WOTLK.

[Deleted]

As for the most powerful mage on Azeroth comment, Rhonin says hai. =3

Rhonin and Jaina are both little shits compared to Khadgar. I would say being the pupil of Medivh and leading the assault on Draenor should count for something, and if that's not enough he now gets a lot of new wisdom, and perhaps powers, through A'dal. But I guess Khadgar doesn't count as he isn't on Azeroth at the moment? Still, I think it's a shame he doesn't get more screentime, he should definitely have a major role in the next Burning Legion expansion.

[Jessicka]

Rhonin and Jaina are both little shits compared to Khadgar. I would say being the pupil of Medivh and leading the assault on Draenor should count for something, and if that's not enough he now gets a lot of new wisdom, and perhaps powers, through A'dal. But I guess Khadgar doesn't count as he isn't on Azeroth at the moment? Still, I think it's a shame he doesn't get more screentime, he should definitely have a major role in the next Burning Legion expansion.

Here's the big difference. We can argue between who is the more powerful of Azshara, Medivh, Jaina, Khadgar, and Rhonin. Who does Thrall compete with? Absolutely no one. Even when he's confronted by Jaina+Focusing Iris+Tsunami of Elementals, he's able to hold it back "long enough". I think that is pretty unquestionably 'Mary Sue' as others have put it. :\

I don't dislike him as a character, but I think he is overused and too often presented as overpowered and peerless.

[Narveid]

Here's the big difference. We can argue between who is the more powerful of Azshara, Medivh, Jaina, Khadgar, and Rhonin. Who does Thrall compete with? Absolutely no one. Even when he's confronted by Jaina+Focusing Iris+Tsunami of Elementals, he's able to hold it back "long enough". I think that is pretty unquestionably 'Mary Sue' as others have put it. :\

I don't dislike him as a character, but I think he is overused and too often presented as overpowered and peerless.

There is other strong shamans though, just that we never see them. Muln Earthfury, Nobundo, Aggra herself are quite a capable shaman, Greatmother Geyah.

[Netherspark]

I got a shaman lore question, do Azeroth shamans have trouble communicating with The Outland elements/spirits and vice versa? Or does it not matter which they call to?

Also if a Shaman in Outlands ask for a Azeroth Elementals's power what happens? Does it just take a long time? Can not 'talk' over such long distances? Or maybe even if they got the call the power they could send would be very weak?

Doesnt work that way. You call out to local spirits, and local spirits respond.

[Daswolfen]

Heh, the problem of Alliance players is that they see everything awesome because they look at it...as Alliance players. As Horde player the feeling of uneasy when you do all this is palpable, because, no matter how much Blizzard twist the thing (even if is a reasonable twisting) in the more positive way, you are fighting your own faction. No two ways about it. There is no pumping fist moment, heck, the main villain of this expansion is the one supposed to be your faction leader. It's so incredibly downrating that make me almost laugh.

Yeah, its 'awesome' to spend the last two expansions with the in game lore going to the other faction so they can experience it personally as they are the center of attention, while Alliance gets to be told what happens to them in books and website posts. Yeah, its 'awesome' to watch the former warchief/beloved leader of the Horde be turned into a god because he is Metzen's toon. Yeah, its 'awesome' to have your in game assets cut or unfinished because the developers prefer to work on the Horde stuff. Yeah, its 'awesome' to control a robo-cat and then play step and fetch it for the other faction while being told that its an honor to help them and they are throwing us a bone by letting us do their gruntwork.

Yeah, its so 'awesome' being Alliance...

[Trassk]

Here's the big difference. We can argue between who is the more powerful of Azshara, Medivh, Jaina, Khadgar, and Rhonin. Who does Thrall compete with? Absolutely no one. Even when he's confronted by Jaina+Focusing Iris+Tsunami of Elementals, he's able to hold it back "long enough". I think that is pretty unquestionably 'Mary Sue' as others have put it. :\

I don't dislike him as a character, but I think he is overused and too often presented as overpowered and peerless.

so because Thrall is regarded as the most powerful shaman where as Jaina has to conflict with who the most powerful mage is, that makes Thrall a sue to you because theres little else to compare to..
You do understand the flaw in your logic right? There is a reason why lore characters become the central focus AND become the strongest of the kind.. BECAUSE THEY ARE CENTRAL TO THE STORY. What kind of long standing story is it when a character spends years learning and becoming stronger, only to become THE strongest of there kind, yet has people question why they became this way?

Do you know why bruce lee is regarded as the greatest martial artist to have lived? It wasn't because of movies made about him or being a household icon, like that dick chuck norris. Its becausehe actually worked, and trained, and spent every waking hour of his life perfecting his fighting skill. He was regarded as near unbeatable because of his years of training for a reason.

[Daswolfen]

so because Thrall is regarded as the most powerful shaman where as Jaina has to conflict with who the most powerful mage is, that makes Thrall a sue to you because theres little else to compare to..
You do understand the flaw in your logic right? There is a reason why lore characters become the central focus AND become the strongest of the kind.. BECAUSE THEY ARE CENTRAL TO THE STORY. What kind of long standing story is it when a character spends years learning and becoming stronger, only to become THE strongest of there kind, yet has people question why they became this way?

Do you know why bruce lee is regarded as the greatest martial artist to have lived? It wasn't because of movies made about him or being a household icon, like that dick chuck norris. Its becausehe actually worked, and trained, and spent every waking hour of his life perfecting his fighting skill. He was regarded as near unbeatable because of his years of training for a reason.

Orc Jesus is a Mary Sue because his is Metzen's character and who he would want to be if he was an Orc. Orc Jesus is a poorly written character because he is nothing more than Metzen's wish fulfillment and is an utterly boring character. He is like Gold and Silver Age Superman. He had all this power, everything went his way, and nothing really bad happened in his life. Orc Jesus is the same way. He was made into basically a god, with zero sacrifice on his part. He was just given everything on silver platter. He has had to earn nothing. It is ironic that you bring up Bruce Lee as the greatest martial artist, and you fail to recognize that Orc Jesus didn't have to do crap to gain his power, save be Metzen's alter ego.

[Deleted]

Because he's Metzen's alter ego.

[Trassk]

Wolftech, I have you on ignore, but I opened it up maybe expecting you might have something relevant to talk about. Instead its the same old thing you always say without showing any concerted effort to learn or listen. You are don't add anything to a conversation but the same old buzz words you copy from others.

---------- Post added 2013-06-30 at 06:02 PM ----------

Because he's Metzen's alter ego.

oh look, its exactly the same thing only said in five words.

[tru]

he got to class change so why not be superpowerful

[Vileplume]

anything that the user Trassk says is funny.. the guy is in love with ORCS.. not joking he is so biased towards them.. plus does the guy ever leave this site? his post count is crazy

[Daswolfen]

Wolftech, I have you on ignore, but I opened it up maybe expecting you might have something relevant to talk about. Instead its the same old thing you always say without showing any concerted effort to learn or listen. You are don't add anything to a conversation but the same old buzz words you copy from others.

Seriously? You are the one who is so fanatically devoted to Thrall that you have to defend him religiously while ignoring the facts. I really feel sorry for you.

[Viradiance]

Metzen turned him into Jesus.