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  1. #281
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narveid View Post
    See everything as awesome? I can't really agree with that. You can't expect them to think everything is awesome no matter the quality of implementation just because we are attacking Orgrimmar. Would they think it was awesome if there was no real Alliance people even in 5.4? Doubtful. Would they feel its awesome if they only aid the Horde in every endeavor? Doubtful.
    You read it very bad, like Wolftech, but unlike him, I will respond to you. I didn't say they see everything awesome what they do with their Alliance character, goddamn, I understood by ages of complaining threads that they don't. What I was trying to saying is that they see awesome everything happening in the Horde quests/storyline because they see it with another perspective, even when they play a Horde character they pretty delight in killing Horde, happy to do what they felt they had to do with their Alliance characters, even if the situation in the 5.3 didn't absolutely permit such an active mess in Durotar by a foreign force, no matter which excuse could have been found for make the players happy, wouldn't have make sense with the situation, for this the only Alliance presence in Durotar now is two SI7 agents in stealth, and is, again, damn logic.

    Ofcourse the 5.4 will be full of Alliance, but because the Siege will officially begin, with all the mess that is bringing. Now is not, and Garrosh have a frightful army amassed in the very coast of Durotar.

    And meh .. I am a Horde player, I think the attack on Razor Hill is pretty fist pumping .. Sort of lost the feel for Garrosh in 5.1 when he told Lor'themar that "Hey, I sent your people to your death, just because. I COULD have just given you a heads up, would've taken me like 5 seconds, but I cba." The idiocy is absolutely astounding. Looking forward to removing him.
    This is irrelevant, a lot of people despise Garrosh, want to remove him or even kill him, but that is not the point. Garrosh is still the leader of the faction, he still officially hold the power of turning everything in the Horde against you in the 5.3, and in this patch you just feel like that for bringing down Garrosh first you will have to kill an absurd amount of orcs in the way, and the prospective of a siege on your own capital and all the bloodshed in the Barrens don't help at all in lessen this sensation.

    Indeed, my main is a troll, so in my case I have a little more "empathy" with the whole Darkspear Revolution, but for anyone that like orcs and play an Orc as a main, the feeling of being "victorious" with fist raised in the air is extremely lacking, and in general the thought that you will have to shatter to pieces your own faction and invade your own capital just for kill an asshole is not so joyful. This doesn't mean that this is what will happen enterily in the 5.4 (well, I hope so), but indeed this is the feeling that the 5.3 gave, which was not amazing.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-06-30 at 11:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  2. #282
    Deleted
    Because Metzen self insert.

  3. #283
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I get maybe the idea behind seeing what his inaction led to, but riding in as a saviour yet again wasn't the way to do it.
    He was there because Jaina was going to erase Thrall's people by history, men, women and children alike, so was pretty obvious that Thrall would have tried to stop her to do such a thing, because was sincerely out of proportion. Still, Thrall just served as a "gaining time" character, that failed miserably in accomplish what he tried to do, which was to show how the relationship between he and Jaina sank into a blackhole, if Jaina held her hand was for Kalecgos, not Thrall, and even when she gave up her genocidial intent, she remained extremely hostile with him.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-06-30 at 11:15 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  4. #284
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post

    Indeed, my main is a troll, so in my case I have a little more "empathy" with the whole Darkspear Revolution, but for anyone that like orcs and play an Orc as a main, the feeling of being "victiorious" with fist raised in the air is extremely lacking, and in general the thought that you will have to shatter to pieces your own faction and invade your own capital just for kill an asshole is not so joyful. This doesn't mean that this is what will happen enterily in the 5.4 (well, I hope so), but indeed this is the feeling that the 5.3 gave, which was not amazing.
    that sums it up for me. My main and most played alts are orcs. Well I have other alts like trolls, tauren, goblin, worgen and draenei, its orcs I'm most held by in the lore, and my argument all this time has been how garrosh has been dragging the orcs down the road of bad guy just made me hate the character.

    You know what is? The very reason why warcraft appeals to me, when compared to any other mmo game franchise out there, is how wow gives you a faction where unlike any other, you get to play the monsterous races, but its done in such a way they are not monster, but people, who struggle to survive in a world where humans and elves are constantly at war with them. THATS more interesting then any other mmo or rpg theme out there, with its cut and paste 'play the pretty boy/girl races and beat up the bad monsters'.

    Thats what drew me to the horde, and what drew me to the orcs most of all is how orcs, having been a race in any other franchise protrayed as monster, in this, they were people, with a background, developed characters and culture, and even a story of overcoming there dark past in the hope of having a better future..

    That was until garrosh came along and fucked up the major aspect of the orcs story. People have cast aside any logic in this, in the orcs overcoming the dark past and growing as a race, and just opted for the same cut and paste bullshit of having the orcs go WAAARRRGGG and fight with humans yet again. What they had as a unique and really fasciating concept for a story, has devolved into the having the 'noble yet savage' orcs turned into the used and reused stereotypical orcs like in any other rpg setting.

    I love roleplaying an orc, because they have more conflict in themselves and the world around them then any other race, but it also makes for a far more intresting story, when you can roleplay an orc that overcomes his rage and hate for humans and other races, or one that learns wisdom before just being another tool for war.

    So no, I do not get any joy out of this current patch, running around killing orcs, having to storm the capital city I once use to defend constantly (before cata gave flying mounts to vanilla zones), its not fun. For an orc player, this is hitting at everything about there orcs, and leaving the question, what the fuck happens now after garrosh and so many orcs are killed off? Why are they repeating the same formula of 'orcs are bad, we need to take them down', when they were meant to be beyond this?

    And more so, why the hell is this going to teach, what lesson comes from this? That war is bad, even though its unlikely the war will stop. That dealing with dark powers is dangerous? Because we sure didn't know THAT before all this -_-.

    Blizzard systematicly fucked up one of the most unique features in wow that made it appealing to me, and given the thin ice they've been walking on... well, guess we're wait and see won't we...

    ---------- Post added 2013-07-01 at 12:17 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Thrall didn't need more development, and much of the book is developing Jaina and Kalec (and Baine who is virtually forgotten in the game now. but had enough development and awesome thrown at him for me to seriously consider him as a potential new Warchief). The whole Thrall thing felt like an unnecessary side-story to bring in Thrall for the sake of bringing in Thrall. Yes, I get there's history and Jaina wanted to enlist his help to begin with, but he flat out rejected her pleas for assistance, telling her in no uncertain terms that the Horde is Garrosh's now and he was solely invested in his family and the Earthen Ring. Then, he has this vision and shows up to save the day? That's pretty weak. I get maybe the idea behind seeing what his inaction led to, but riding in as a saviour yet again wasn't the way to do it.
    how is it weakness, when as a neutral character, comes in to try and stop her from killing hundreds of his own, risking his own life against her rampage, and even not being strong enough to withstand it for long, he doesn't give up trying. He is even miserable at the end of losing his close friend after all thats happened.

    its not weakness, its just your own bias leaking though in judgement of the character rather then seeing the act of what he did. And thats pretty annoying and weak itself.
    #boycottchina

  5. #285
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    You know what is? The very reason why warcraft appeals to me, when compared to any other mmo game franchise out there, is how wow gives you a faction where unlike any other, you get to play the monsterous races, but its done in such a way they are not monster, but people, who struggle to survive in a world where humans and elves are constantly at war with them. THATS more interesting then any other mmo or rpg theme out there, with its cut and paste 'play the pretty boy/girl races and beat up the bad monsters'.
    "I see a bunch of unconventional champions when I look at them. That's what appealed to me. They're a bunch of berserkers and savages but they're a potential force of good. They have their own set of morals and honor whilst being morally diverse. Why do I always have to play a knight in shining armor to fight as the "good guy"? I can do that in most other fantasy games."

    This comment I read on Youtube sometime ago pretty explained it better than I could.

    (ofcourse was a response to one of these new "true horde" fans saying that people that don't like it should just bring their asses in the Alliance).
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  6. #286
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    "I see a bunch of unconventional champions when I look at them. That's what appealed to me. They're a bunch of berserkers and savages but they're a potential force of good. They have their own set of morals and honor whilst being morally diverse. Why do I always have to play a knight in shining armor to fight as the "good guy"? I can do that in most other fantasy games."

    This comment I read on Youtube sometime ago pretty explained it better than I could.

    (ofcourse was a response to one of these new "true horde" fans saying that people that don't like it should just bring their asses in the Alliance).
    the "True Horde" concept is something that has been tokened by garrosh (and previously by bladefist) as a means to try and justify orc only rule and dominance.
    The real horde is the one where orcs, trolls, tauren, forsaken, blood elves and goblins all stand together as one. Thats the real horde.
    #boycottchina

  7. #287
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    the "True Horde" concept is something that has been tokened by garrosh (and previously by bladefist) as a means to try and justify orc only rule and dominance.
    The real horde is the one where orcs, trolls, tauren, forsaken, blood elves and goblins all stand together as one. Thats the real horde.
    Indeed but now we have no choices but use it in the worst way because of the abuse that Garrosh is making of this name, and consequently, of any big fan of it, that will use it not in the iconic way the game is doing, but literally. So if I want to make a distinction, I'll just use "New Horde", which has always been the official name of the "real one" (instead of the "true" that is nothing more than restyled Old Horde, so the opposition brought by the term "New Horde" fits pretty well).
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  8. #288
    I just did not feel compelled or inclined to really care about Thrall in Cata, at all- I felt more for Deathwing than I did most other characters, especially when you have to kill him at the maelstrom.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by HavocPrime View Post
    Because Metzen gave him a wonderful power called "plot"
    It both heartens and disappoints me when what I was going to say is the very first response.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    You mean the quest that you have to go to Alex and A'dal? That's not about Tirion at all. It was about Argent Crusade as whole.
    It was Tirion sending you to save his soldier and then Tirion sending you to every powerful being in the world to try to save him from his horrible fate and in the end he is incredibly relieved that he found his way into the light.
    I know that this quest is really about some friend of Blizzard who died of cancer but ingame Tirion is heavily involved.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    It was Tirion sending you to save his soldier and then Tirion sending you to every powerful being in the world to try to save him from his horrible fate and in the end he is incredibly relieved that he found his way into the light.
    I know that this quest is really about some friend of Blizzard who died of cancer but ingame Tirion is heavily involved.
    It's still not really about Tirion personally. There was hardly such a quest about Tirion's life in WotLK.

  12. #292
    Bloodsail Admiral Taros's Avatar
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    Performance enhancing drugs.

  13. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    that sums it up for me. My main and most played alts are orcs. Well I have other alts like trolls, tauren, goblin, worgen and draenei, its orcs I'm most held by in the lore, and my argument all this time has been how garrosh has been dragging the orcs down the road of bad guy just made me hate the character.

    You know what is? The very reason why warcraft appeals to me, when compared to any other mmo game franchise out there, is how wow gives you a faction where unlike any other, you get to play the monsterous races, but its done in such a way they are not monster, but people, who struggle to survive in a world where humans and elves are constantly at war with them. THATS more interesting then any other mmo or rpg theme out there, with its cut and paste 'play the pretty boy/girl races and beat up the bad monsters'.

    Thats what drew me to the horde, and what drew me to the orcs most of all is how orcs, having been a race in any other franchise protrayed as monster, in this, they were people, with a background, developed characters and culture, and even a story of overcoming there dark past in the hope of having a better future..

    That was until garrosh came along and fucked up the major aspect of the orcs story. People have cast aside any logic in this, in the orcs overcoming the dark past and growing as a race, and just opted for the same cut and paste bullshit of having the orcs go WAAARRRGGG and fight with humans yet again. What they had as a unique and really fasciating concept for a story, has devolved into the having the 'noble yet savage' orcs turned into the used and reused stereotypical orcs like in any other rpg setting.

    I love roleplaying an orc, because they have more conflict in themselves and the world around them then any other race, but it also makes for a far more intresting story, when you can roleplay an orc that overcomes his rage and hate for humans and other races, or one that learns wisdom before just being another tool for war.

    So no, I do not get any joy out of this current patch, running around killing orcs, having to storm the capital city I once use to defend constantly (before cata gave flying mounts to vanilla zones), its not fun. For an orc player, this is hitting at everything about there orcs, and leaving the question, what the fuck happens now after garrosh and so many orcs are killed off? Why are they repeating the same formula of 'orcs are bad, we need to take them down', when they were meant to be beyond this?

    And more so, why the hell is this going to teach, what lesson comes from this? That war is bad, even though its unlikely the war will stop. That dealing with dark powers is dangerous? Because we sure didn't know THAT before all this -_-.

    Blizzard systematicly fucked up one of the most unique features in wow that made it appealing to me, and given the thin ice they've been walking on... well, guess we're wait and see won't we...

    ---------- Post added 2013-07-01 at 12:17 AM ----------



    how is it weakness, when as a neutral character, comes in to try and stop her from killing hundreds of his own, risking his own life against her rampage, and even not being strong enough to withstand it for long, he doesn't give up trying. He is even miserable at the end of losing his close friend after all thats happened.

    its not weakness, its just your own bias leaking though in judgement of the character rather then seeing the act of what he did. And thats pretty annoying and weak itself.
    Your arrogance and patronizing behaviour coupled with your juvenile aggressiveness and 'he is because he is' explanations make me cringe. I don't know if I've ever read posts that have made me felt more sorry for anyone this contradictory and conceited.

  14. #294
    He is horde. The WoW story revolves around the Horde. Therefore lol plot armor makes Thrall badass.

  15. #295
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    He was there because Jaina was going to erase Thrall's people by history, men, women and children alike, so was pretty obvious that Thrall would have tried to stop her to do such a thing, because was sincerely out of proportion. Still, Thrall just served as a "gaining time" character, that failed miserably in accomplish what he tried to do, which was to show how the relationship between he and Jaina sank into a blackhole, if Jaina held her hand was for Kalecgos, not Thrall, and even when she gave up her genocidial intent, she remained extremely hostile with him.
    He was there because he had a prophetic vision to be there. That to me is a pretty weak plot device used to bring someone in for the sake of bringing someone in. It could have been done better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    how is it weakness, when as a neutral character, comes in to try and stop her from killing hundreds of his own, risking his own life against her rampage, and even not being strong enough to withstand it for long, he doesn't give up trying. He is even miserable at the end of losing his close friend after all thats happened.

    its not weakness, its just your own bias leaking though in judgement of the character rather then seeing the act of what he did. And thats pretty annoying and weak itself.
    He shows up after a prophetic vision, and holds back without any outside assitance, arguably the most powerful Mage on Azeroth, using the most powerful magical artifact on Azeroth, for "just long enough". You don't think that's weak storytelling, or undermines the magnitude of what Jaina was attempting?

    Edit, to put it into perspective: The same device destroyed Theramore and killed Rhonin, another arguably most powerful Mage on Azeroth, while he actively tried to do the same thing.
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2013-07-01 at 08:40 AM.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by arachno-lad View Post
    Your arrogance and patronizing behaviour coupled with your juvenile aggressiveness and 'he is because he is' explanations make me cringe. I don't know if I've ever read posts that have made me felt more sorry for anyone this contradictory and conceited.
    Thats Trassk for you. He also never forgets to remind you that he is 30+yr old and gay so that you know that he is definitely not biased at all.

  17. #297
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arachno-lad View Post
    Your arrogance and patronizing behaviour coupled with your juvenile aggressiveness and 'he is because he is' explanations make me cringe. I don't know if I've ever read posts that have made me felt more sorry for anyone this contradictory and conceited.
    so rather then actually debating with me on this matter you decide to do nothing more then insult me, rather then making an argument about the debate itself. And then have the balls to tell me I'M being juvenile and aggressive?
    You really don't see the flaw in what you just posted do you?

    ---------- Post added 2013-07-01 at 11:06 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Thats Trassk for you. He also never forgets to remind you that he is 30+yr old and gay so that you know that he is definitely not biased at all.
    oh hey Verdugo, what new pointless addition will you post today other then a snarky backhand?

    God, you people, at least try and make out like you have something worth debating here or that your joining a thread to do more then throw insults at others. I might be aggressive at times but at least I TRY to make a debate with those here, unlike you. Look, Jessicka actually goes out of her time to debate and discuss something, even if its not what I agree with, she at least tries! Thats worth more respect then you have muster.
    Last edited by Trassk; 2013-07-01 at 10:07 AM.
    #boycottchina

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Thats Trassk for you. He also never forgets to remind you that he is 30+yr old and gay so that you know that he is definitely not biased at all.
    Trassk is gay?

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Trassk is gay?
    Okey, really? Does it matter at all? This is supposed to be a discussion about Thrall, not Trassk. As far as I see it, if we have nothing more to say about Thrall, the thread might aswell be closed.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Thats Trassk for you. He also never forgets to remind you that he is 30+yr old and gay so that you know that he is definitely not biased at all.
    I'm all of those things too, but I think all of Thrall's post WC3 character development was crap and that Cata's plot was retarded (and yes i've read the novels).

    So i'm not sure what your point is.
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