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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by Dasani View Post
    Basically it'll be the people who only raid in LFR who try to kill this boss, but with zero motivation or incentive for real raiders to kill this boss and thus carry those LFR people, they'll never get him down in the first place.

    I just don't see the point.
    And what is the motiviation for those LFR people to try to kill this boss? I mean, what exactly will doing that enable them to do? If they only raid LFR, the gear from this boss won't open up anything new.

    I think Flex mode raiders are more the target, especially if Blizzard turns up the difficulty of normal mode yet again.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  2. #662
    Scarab Lord Razorice's Avatar
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    I'm so far away from getting the cloak,so no boss for me I guess. Oh well time to move on!

  3. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by Razorice View Post
    I'm so far away from getting the cloak,so no boss for me I guess. Oh well time to move on!
    This is the real problem. The legendary quest turned into a kind of attunement. It went from "lucky bonus" to "expected and necessary".

    I thought Blizzard had realized attunements were counterproductive. Oh well: "experience is that which enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again."
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by Balazaar View Post
    What you did NOT do was start the quest because it was required to kill a world boss. You didn't know about that. Would you have started the quest had you known? For some people the answer is yes. This is the issue I'm peeved about.

    I'm willing to put in the work if I want the reward. I don't feel I'm entitled to see a boss without it. What I AM entitled to is knowing, when the quest comes out, what the rewards will be.

    Blizzard changed the reward mid-stream for doing the quest. THAT is the issue to me. Not entitlement. Not the gating of content. All I want is to know when the quest comes out what the reward will be. Not told 9 months later.
    Umm, Sorry, but this has to be the weakest arguement I have ever heard.

    Your arguement essentially boils down to "I didn't keep up on the legendary questline because I wasn't told what the end reward was going to be ahead of time."

    Really? That is the best you could do? Its a freaking LEGENDARY QUESTLINE. What more reason do you need to do it then that? Not to mention that it is a questline that PRATCIALLY COMPLETES ITSELF if you simply take the quests and show up to current raids as the expantion progresses. There is literally NO REASON to NOT do the questline if you were even remotely interested in the raid scene at any level during the expantion.

    So you didnt know what the end reward was going to be. NOBODY DID! I mean, where do you even get off claiming blizzard pulled a Bait and Switch, changing the reward mid stream for anyway? Untill stuff showed up on the PTR for each subsequent content patch, nobody had any idea what the rewards for the steps of the questline were going to be. Blizzard can't "change the reward" when there was never a specified reward to begin with.

    The pure and simple answer is you were too lazy to put in even the bare minimum amount of effort to do a questline that practically completes itself as you gear up in each current tier of raiding because you didnt have a carrot dangling on the end of the stick. Did it ever occur to you that the entire point of the Legendary questline has never been the carrot on the stick, but rather follows the philosophy of "the journey is more interesting then the destination"?

  5. #665
    Wow, so much rage and bitching over one optional world boss huh? Not even core to the plot, not even one that drops heroic gear, just an optional boss. Wait, does he despawn and never spawn again after the first week? Unlikely, so what are people whining about? Not being able to see a boss of a multi-patch long legendary quest on day one? Unless said person is a video streamer or has real world monetary at stake here, there's really no room to complain here.

    I think the actions of the whiners speaks more of themselves than Blizzard's boss design.

  6. #666
    I don't really point of doing this. Everyone who keeps up on their main will get to it since those cloaks aren't that rare (or won't be once 5.4 hits). All it does it cut a way to gear alts (which hopefully flex will replace) and will make forming group absolute pain outside of Wednesday and/or weekend.

  7. #667
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    This is the real problem. The legendary quest turned into a kind of attunement. It went from "lucky bonus" to "expected and necessary".

    I thought Blizzard had realized attunements were counterproductive. Oh well: "experience is that which enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again."
    I don't see one boss out of 19 (counting Ordos and the four celestial if they go World Boss route) make it "necessary" or "expected"
    If you can't be hassled to collect stuff for it, you just don't get *one boss* simply do the other 18 and I can assure that you'll be ok

  8. #668
    I equate it to heroic-only bosses, personally. Gives the people who want to go after it a carrot to chase and for everyone else it's just 'oh, okay' and on to doing what they enjoy.

  9. #669
    Mechagnome
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    Ordos isn't Oon in terms of lore. It's nice to have a "legendary type" boss. Some things should be like this more often, I like it.

  10. #670
    Blizzard is doing this so the servers don't break like what happened back with Oondasta. People think this elusive boss is for "snowflake heroic raiders", I beg to differ. I looked at its abilities in wowdb and look at what we have here.

    Magma Crush - Inflicts 5,000,000 Fire damage, split evently amongst all players within 20 yards of the target.
    Burning Soul - Inflicts 50,000 Fire damage every 1 sec. for 10 sec. On expiration, the player explodes, inflicting 300,000 Fire damage to players within 8 yards and knocking them up.
    Pool of Fire - Creates a pool of fire that inflicts 50,000 Fire damage every 1 sec.
    Ancient Flame - Summons an orb that inflicts 50,000 Fire damage to the nearest player every 2 sec. and increases Fire damage taken by 5% for 10 sec.

    I guess the strategy is have everyone stack next to the boss, those who get the debuff separate and avoid fire. Typical difficulty of a simple normal boss. The worst can happen is if that are a lot of Mr. Derps ignoring everything, getting turned in bombs and causing massive damage to the raid. That's pretty much it and it isn't as bad as Oondasta. I'm predicting that after 2 months when most people are done doing this boss with their mains, Blizzard will consider removing the requirement.

    Not much of a big deal here people, move along.

  11. #671
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    One problem with this whole theory that can be seen very easily in sales. Wow was successful because it was a carrot on a stick. Lately they have given the carrot to players. And when you get the carrot.. nothing is left, and they leave.
    pls stop with this theory that wow was succes cause people seen those 1-2 people in raiding gear in orgrimar and thought that they aspire to be such player one day - wow was mega succesfull cause Warcraft 3 was mega succesfull game and turning it into mmorpg was brilliant move especially to the mmorpg of this scale and grpahics in that time when they had next to no real competition . they tried to bring back the carrot at the beginign of cata and stoped after 2 mln people left game - wonder if they try to do it again how mnay mln will convince them that its not 2005

    i dont mind special bosses for raiders etc etc - what i am against is making a special boss and anouncing it surprisingly fast after people complain how orange cloaks are dissapointing and not worth the time inwested cause everybody was expecting orange weapon. they didnt announce it months ago that legendary will give acces to more content - if people knew it people would run lfrs long time ago on alts and be done with certain part of this quest - peopel didnt do that cause nobody suspected even remotly that cloak can be some sort of attunement - and now some people feel cheated by the blizzard aproch to that not by the sole fact that u need cloak to do that boss on alt - espcially that if those abilities numbers are real then this boss will be a joke.
    Also peopel pls stop pretending ur blind - its a clear move towards alts - to make them do outdated lfrs if peopel want to do that boss on alts they have to farm - cause in 5.4 succesfull ToT pugs will be even more next non existent as 5.0 raids are atm .
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2013-06-30 at 10:31 AM.

  12. #672
    Deleted
    i was under the impression that an MMORPG involves (among other things) long grinds and rewards. This is just that.. the average WoW player is too spoiled.

  13. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    If you don't have time to do it, don't do it? What's so hard about that.
    that's exactly what i'm doing but this doesn't mean i have to be happy about this, it's so hard to understand? lol

  14. #674
    As someone who has switched mains twice this expansion to accommodate holes in my guild's raiding roster due to people quitting, everything about the legendary quest chain annoys me, and this is no exception.

  15. #675
    The Lightbringer Adramalech's Avatar
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    Come on now, it's just one boss. One boss that isn't even part of progression (for those who care about that), drops loot equivalent to NORMAL SoO, and is harder than your average world boss (not by much, really, but still). Even then, despite all these facts, everyone who puts in the effort to finish the cloak will eventually be able to reach the boss sooner or later, since it can be completed in all difficulties. Yes, RNG is a complete bitch, but really, most activities in this game are surrounded by a certain degree of RNG. And to be fair, other than the Titan Runestones, the rest of the RNG (thus far) isn't THAT bad anymore, and it's getting further improved in 5.4 (sigils dropping from ToT, drop rates increased on both sigils and secrets, sigils can no longer drop beyond the 10 needed).

    I don't approve of attunements or artificial gatings, but consider for a moment that it's just one boss. One (well, two if you count Ra-Den). Out of everything else in this expansion. Put things into perspective.
    Last edited by Adramalech; 2013-06-30 at 12:00 PM.
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    As a warlock, allow me to be the first to say that I get tremendous amounts of joy from watching fear pathing take you to Africa.
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  16. #676
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
    I don't approve of attunements or artificial gatings, but consider for a moment that it's just one boss. One (well, two if you count Ra-Den). Out of everything else in this expansion. Put things into perspective.
    Including Ra-den with this is incorrect. I don't need to have been subbed for most of the expansion to see Ra-den.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  17. #677
    Its a neat idea. Should be much closer to how old world bosses were, back in the days when you mostly did it with your own guild. That said, i hope they tune it for 10 or 25 people, not 40+. Thats the make it or break it deal here. Getting 25 players from my own guild with legendary cloak would be hard enough, considering the craptastic drop rate on titan rune stones but 40 ain't going to happen. Then we're forced to invite randoms that potentially won't be able to handle a higher difficulty world boss.

    Perhaps they should have gone with two world bosses. One PuGs can do and one with the attunement style legendary cloak gate.
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  18. #678
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Keep in mind you can have a cloak doing nothing but LFR.
    Not entirely true. You still need to complete the solo scenarios, which ARE an actual roadblock for many non-raiders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korru View Post
    I guess the strategy is have everyone stack next to the boss, those who get the debuff separate and avoid fire. Typical difficulty of a simple normal boss. The worst can happen is if that are a lot of Mr. Derps ignoring everything, getting turned in bombs and causing massive damage to the raid. That's pretty much it and it isn't as bad as Oondasta
    I don't think it's going to be that simple. What I glean from the dungeon journal is constant stack/spread mechanics while dodging fire orbs in an ever-shrinking area with a 5min enrage timer.

  19. #679
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Balazaar View Post
    I think some of us are arguing about different things, and it's confusing the issue. So let's try this ...

    It's 5.0 again. You see the legendary questline. Why did you choose to do the quest?

    1. I did the quest to get the legendary. Totally fair.
    2. I did the quest because I like quests. Fine.
    3. I did the quest because it is there, or some other reason. Great.

    What you did NOT do was start the quest because it was required to kill a world boss. You didn't know about that. Would you have started the quest had you known? For some people the answer is yes. This is the issue I'm peeved about.

    I'm willing to put in the work if I want the reward. I don't feel I'm entitled to see a boss without it. What I AM entitled to is knowing, when the quest comes out, what the rewards will be.

    Blizzard changed the reward mid-stream for doing the quest. THAT is the issue to me. Not entitlement. Not the gating of content. All I want is to know when the quest comes out what the reward will be. Not told 9 months later.
    This post answers your issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaley View Post
    Your argument is so bad that I don't even want to reply. They are adding a Legendary world boss as a REWARD for the time spent. Something exclusive for those people who have been building their character since September.

    And technically, they didn't just randomly "add this boss after the legendary came out" because the Legendary Cloak isn't available. This world boss and the legendary come out in the same patch. You realize this, right?

    "I didn't do the Sha-Touched Gem questline because I didn't know there was going to be a Meta Gem! How dare they add this!"
    "I didn't do the Armament Socket because I didn't know there was going to be a Meta Gem involved!"
    "I didn't do the Meta Gem because I didn't know there was going to be a cloak involved!"
    "I didn't do the cloak because I didn't know there was going to be a LEGENDARY cloak involved!"
    "I didn't do the Sha-Touched Gem because I didn't know there was going to be a world boss 11 months later!"

    Get outta here.
    At the moment you learned about the legendary quest line you knew there were going to be rewards throughout the expansion. Common sense applied it would be pretty dull to make it a 1000 primary stats gem the next patch. So it would be something else, something new, something more powerful as gear becomes more and more powerful while progressing through the expansion (every expansion).

    So you have 4 options.

    1. Either you decide to do the legendary quest line. You do not know what will be next, good or bad (but common sense suggests it will become more strong every patch ie. you did not get Shadows Edge as best reward in the first week of your Shadowmourne quest line with Shadowmourne being a green weapon).
    2. You do not do the quest line. You willfully skip it. You do not know what will be next but whatever it is the consequence of your action is that you cannot obtain it. At least, not obtain it right away for there is option 3.
    3. Even if you bailed on it, Blizzard did not remove the quests. The reagents from previous patches actually drop more often allowing you to catch up.
    4. You go on some random forum about some holy crusade how you are not rewarded for not bringing any effort.

    You know what is akin to #4? Son why did you get a grade D? Well mom, I did not bother to study I felt entitled to an A. Effort Reward. Action. Consequence.

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedsista View Post
    i disagree. im pretty much a casual, but im still doing the legendary chain quest & have started collecting titan runestones.
    dont always think that being a casual is a bad thing & we dont do anything.
    If casual is logging in one hour a week to do a LFD, a scenario, and a quest or two then no the legendary quest line in this expansion is not casual friendly. If casual means logging in on that friday evening to clear LFR for the weekly chance of getting orange reagents (and maybe even a gear upgrade in the start) then yes the legendary quest line is very casual friendly. And even those who do not clear every week will ON AVERAGE still get their legendary item from that patch in about 1/4 of the time of the patch lifecycle.

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by Fearin View Post
    i was under the impression that an MMORPG involves (among other things) long grinds and rewards. This is just that.. the average WoW player is too spoiled.
    This is so wrong. As well as some poster's words that people should look at Ordos as bonus content unlocked by getting legendary.

    You keep forgetting, that it isn't personal "reward", you can't do anything with that content after done with grind unless there are other people who have done this grind as well. And as such - it is rather penalty than any reward at all. You don't go and solo this world boss, you need a lot of other people who made through this quite extensive grind.

    People keep substituting term "massive gating" by "personal reward". I hope those who defend this deeply obscene design for Ordos, will be especially enjoying themselves on Thursdays+, feel their specialness when there will be no other people with whom you could fight this boss.
    You know what is akin to #4? Son why did you get a grade D? Well mom, I did not bother to study I felt entitled to an A. Effort Reward. Action. Consequence.
    So, how can it be compared to video game? Won't you feel hopelessly alone without all those "entitled" people on thursdays+? Your reward will be loneliness sitting near your precious "deserved" world boss with noone else near you. Just so happens that you actually need other people to kill it. By despising "entitled" people, be sure that you will have someone left to play with you and kill such "deserved" bosses.

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