Hope Taran'zhu dies

[Venziir]

Reminds me of the "we are going to liberate the shit out of them" statement.

Very much so yes.

[Scummer]

And nothing says "reach out to the natives" like enslaving children, stripmining the land, deforesting it and forcing the natives to slaughter each other while wearing the colours of a city they've never seen.... Or waging a war infront of a monument that took a thousand years to create, resulting it its destruction and freeing the Sha.

Well done indeed....

Last I checked Varian was the High King not Doren.

[Venziir]

Outlanders come to his home,unleash the sha with their war, declare his continent their land to conquer, tear up and destroy the most sacred place in the entire continent that he was tasked with protecting and suddenly he's unreasonable for being upset with the ones responsible for the overwhelming majority of problems in Pandaria? Typical Horde mentality. "All we did was ransack your home, destroy your stuff, steal your valuables and then try to take it over, how dare you get angry at us for that"
Horde's bullshit since this story began. The biggest dicks in the story are the red faction, not Taran zhu, get over it, he has a reason to hate you just like the Alliance.

Now aint that just adorable....

[Scummer]

Yeah that's why we are currently in the middle of a rebellion and an all out war - because Garrosh does indeed represent the Horde....

How you feel about Garrosh is irrelevant. He is the Warchief of the Horde until you dispose of him. That's a fact.

[Venziir]

Last I checked Varian was the High King not Doren.

Indeed, and it was under Varians order that all the gnomes started strip-mining and deforesting Krasarang. And Doren was still serving the Alliance, along with a lot of other officers who weren't directly influenced by the Sha who could've said no or tried to stop him from enslaving Pandaren children - however they did not.

[Combatbutler]

How you feel about Garrosh is irrelevant. He is the Warchief of the Horde until you dispose of him. That's a fact.

And Doren is a member of the Alliance that shaped Zhu's view of them, which is exactly the same. Words are all nice and dandy, but if you don't follow what you preach they are quite hollow, the Alliance had very noble intention but failed at the execution.

[Venziir]

How you feel about Garrosh is irrelevant. He is the Warchief of the Horde until you dispose of him. That's a fact.

I'm not sure your reading capabilities are as good as you might think.... Not once did I mention my "feelings", I simply state facts. Garrosh is the Warchief yes, however he has absolutely no say anymore, only his Gestapo-like Kor'kron, mercenaries, Dark Shaman and beasts are under his command currently, where as everyone other race and member of the Horde seeks his death. Warchief or not, he does not represent the Horde - if he did, the Horde itself wouldn't have risen to defeat him.

[Scummer]

Indeed, and it was under Varians order that all the gnomes started strip-mining and deforesting Krasarang. And Doren was still serving the Alliance, along with a lot of other officers who weren't directly influenced by the Sha who could've said no or tried to stop him from enslaving Pandaren children - however they did not.

If there's one thing that we've learned over the last two expansions it's that people don't act out against their leaders until it's too late. It doesn't mean they persoanlly agree with him.

---------- Post added 2013-07-01 at 09:53 PM ----------

I simply state facts.

Both factions commited attrocities against Pandaria and its people, however Garrosh and his Kor'kron - not the Horde - did commit the greatest attrocity.

No you state your opinions as fact.

[Venziir]

If there's one thing that we've learned over the last two expansions it's that people don't act out against their leaders until it's too late. It doesn't mean they persoanlly agree with him.

So when Doren does something bad, he's not Alliance. When Garrosh does something bad, he's the entire Horde.............. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[Combatbutler]

No you state your opinions as fact.

So when Doren does something bad, he's not Alliance. When Garrosh does something bad, he's the entire Horde.............. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

How about you are both wrong, since Garrosh represents the Horde from Zhu's point of view, just as Doran does the Alliance. ;P

[Deleted]

Who the fuck is Doren ?

[Combatbutler]

Who the fuck is Doren ?

http://www.wowpedia.org/Doren

[Scummer]

So when Doren does something bad, he's not Alliance. When Garrosh does something bad, he's the entire Horde.............. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

You're confusing what I'm saying. Doren was not acting under Varian, it doesn't mean he's not Alliance or not representative of the Alliance's flaws either. But he is not the leader who represents and governs his people. Varian is and he has spoken otherwise. Garrosh on the other hand is Warchief of the Horde - he is the Horde.

[Daws001]

I like Taran'zhu. And I feel bad for him I hope he doesn't die.

[iamthedevil]

I'm not sure your reading capabilities are as good as you might think.... Not once did I mention my "feelings", I simply state facts. Garrosh is the Warchief yes, however he has absolutely no say anymore, only his Gestapo-like Kor'kron, mercenaries, Dark Shaman and beasts are under his command currently, where as everyone other race and member of the Horde seeks his death. Warchief or not, he does not represent the Horde - if he did, the Horde itself wouldn't have risen to defeat him.

Yep. Garrosh even states many times in 5.4 that he is the "Warchief of the True Horde." New thing, not The Horde.

[Venziir]

If there's one thing that we've learned over the last two expansions it's that people don't act out against their leaders until it's too late. It doesn't mean they persoanlly agree with him.

---------- Post added 2013-07-01 at 09:53 PM ----------




No you state your opinions as fact.

That's not an opinion - it's a fact that the rest of the Horde doesn't see Garrosh as their leader, nor even as a member of the Horde anymore -they see him as something evil that's corrupting their own code of honour and mindset, and that he needs to be removed.

---------- Post added 2013-07-01 at 08:58 PM ----------

Yep. Garrosh even states many times in 5.4 that he is the "Warchief of the True Horde." New thing, not The Horde.

Exactly - he doesn't even associate himself with the Horde anymore, in his world the True Horde is orcs, orcs orcs and the occasional "monster of the week".

[StationaryHawk]

You never thought that maybe he was written to be somewhat unlikable? That not all characters in a story are made to be stand-up citizens the crowd will adore and relate to?

[Deleted]

http://www.wowpedia.org/Doren

So he's the counter part of the Horde npc which is equally disturbed. Why are people even comparing him with Varian ?!

[Venziir]

You're confusing what I'm saying. Doren was not acting under Varian, it doesn't mean he's not Alliance or not representative of the Alliance's flaws either. But he is not the leader who represents and governs his people. Varian is and he has spoken otherwise. Garrosh on the other hand is Warchief of the Horde - he is the Horde.

Doren was acting under Varian. He was send to Pandaria under direct orders from Varian himself.

And no, Garrosh is not the Horde - he doesn't associate himself with it, nor does the Horde associate it with him. It's all about his "True Horde" now.

---------- Post added 2013-07-01 at 09:01 PM ----------

So he's the counter part of the Horde npc which is equally disturbed. Why are people even comparing him with Varian ?!

We aren't. Just stating that he was an Alliance leader, commiting crimes against Pandaria in the name of the Alliance, thus a reason as to why Zhu doesn't like the Alliance either.

[KrazyK923]

Taran Zhu is an amazing character. He has more depth than most of the characters thusfar introduced to the lore.

Seems like to me a lot of people dislike the fact that he constantly is pointing out the fact that we're fucking up his continent. The thing they don't realize is that he is right.

Doren was acting under Varian. He was send to Pandaria under direct orders from Varian himself.

And no, Garrosh is not the Horde - he doesn't associate himself with it, nor does the Horde associate it with him. It's all about his "True Horde" now.

Yeah...Garrosh does that in 5.4. Sorry, Horde players, you don't get to retroactively dismiss all Garrosh has done simply because now he's finally crossed a line. That isn't how it works.