Balance makes a game boring?

[xicoia]

Well based on my experience with games in general I always try to avoid things like mirror battles or any game that's too balanced because I just don't find it actually fun.

In arenas for example, I prefer playing against a comp that counters mine than playing against my own comp in a mirror match.

I'm not saying that things needs to be overpowered, but having every class that doesn't really have a strong point in comparison to others it's just really boring.

IMO classes and talent specs should feel more distinct to others so you don't feel too ordinary when playing only one class (or role) and this would of course give more motivation to experiment other classes and playstyles.

What do you think?

- - - Updated - - -

Now I know why I should't start threads at dawn...

[Deleted]

There's nothing interesting about stampede globaling players in arena.

[Deleted]

I'd say you're sort of right but not fully since it's required because losing all the time because of what you play or who you play with is boring.

Being balanced but having soft counters is perfectly fine, since it causes a little unbalance but nothing that can't be overcome by being better or having an advantage.

[xicoia]

There's actually A LOT of interesting things about micromanaging your pet skills in Stampede, it was overpowered at the start for sure but I don't see how ONE healer keeping 3 players fully healed for 2 hours can bring any fun at all. If every class could have more alternatives to improve their gameplay by better managing their class other than just using a "rotation" or just having the same skills like everybody hoping you crit more than your oponent.

[paralleluniverse]

Well based on my experience with games in general I always try to avoid things like mirror battles or any game that's too balanced because I just don't find it actually fun.

In arenas for example, I prefer playing against a comp that counters mine than playing against my own comp in a mirror match.

I'm not saying that things needs to be overpowered, but having every class that doesn't really have a strong point in comparison to others it's just really boring.

IMO classes and talent specs should feel more distinct to others so you don't feel too ordinary when playing only one class (or role) and this would of course give more motivation to experiment other classes and playstyles.

What do you think?

- - - Updated - - -

Now I know why I should't start threads at dawn...

You're wrong. There's nothing worse than imbalance.

Balance also doesn't necessarily require mirror matchup. See SC2.

[Deleted]

Ofcourse a game should be balanced, only reason people say they want the game to be unbalanced is if they're the FotM.

[serenka]

mirroring is bad, if every class had the same skills, that did the same damage, but balance is a good thing, its not really fun when one class can just global others, or one is so far ahead in dps that theres no point in playing other classes.

a rock papaer scissors model might work, where some classes are a counter to others

[glowzone]

IMO classes and talent specs should feel more distinct to others so you don't feel too ordinary when playing only one class (or role) and this would of course give more motivation to experiment other classes and playstyles.

What do you think?

None of this has anything to do with balance, things can be unique and interesting, without being hilariously op.
A lot of "overpowered" things in wow where not interesting at all, just normal abilities that hit far to hard, or cc that was far to affective for the time spend.

There's nothing "interesting" about a dk spamning icy touch, or a hunter destroying people with stampede.

[Deleted]

It depends what you count as balanced. I'd say that Rock/Paper/Scissors is balanced, but if you're the Paper and your opponent is Scissors then it probably feels bad.

On the other hand, if all players are Rock, Paper and Scissors combined into one megamorphic lump, then it's just plain and boring - noone cares any more.

[FuxieDK]

Class balance, is a non-existing problem, invented by PvP'ers, only to cause grief in PvE...

[achromatickang]

It actually does. I remember in EverQuest there was absolutely no class balance, but it wasn't seen as a big deal because there was also no Damage Meters, or PVP. Pure DPS classes absolutely blew hybrids out of the water in terms of DPS, and yet Hybrids still felt dramatically more powerful than Pure DPS classes. Warriors were arguably the best tanks in the game, and Clerics were the best healers in the game and yet none of this mattered because the game wasn't balanced around who the best healer, dps, or tank was. You never saw a Paladin or a Shadow Knight bitch about a Rogue's damage, or a Druid / Shaman whine about Cleric's healing because there's no way they would ever trade their kit in for that, and vice versa. Each class felt unique and extremely overpowered in their own way and it was amazing.

[Duridi]

I have found it to do so yes. I don't PvP, but I have found out that playing alts was more fun when classes had more distinct differences within their basic toolbox. As it is now, all classes feel watered down into just roles instead of actual classes. They all seem to have the exact same spells just with a minor tweak to their tooltip. It's incredibly frustrating.

A similar thing happened when I played Aion back at it's release. During the beta I played Elyos, because I didn't want to spoil my Asmodian experience on live... The result was that when the game was released, I felt like Asmodae was an exact copy of the Elyos' homeworld, just with different colours. That ruined it for me.

Wow has been better at seperating the factions quest experience in the past, but I haven't tried both after the Cataclysm. However, I do feel there is a lot of times the horde and the alliance have too similar quests too. I want a new experience when I change faction or class, not a mirror of another.

[Deleted]

It actually does. I remember in EverQuest there was absolutely no class balance, but it wasn't seen as a big deal because there was also no Damage Meters, or PVP. Pure DPS classes absolutely blew hybrids out of the water in terms of DPS, and yet Hybrids still felt dramatically more powerful than Pure DPS classes. Warriors were arguably the best tanks in the game, and Clerics were the best healers in the game and yet none of this mattered because the game wasn't balanced around who the best healer, dps, or tank was. You never saw a Paladin or a Shadow Knight bitch about a Rogue's damage, or a Druid / Shaman whine about Cleric's healing because there's no way they would ever trade their kit in for that, and vice versa. Each class felt unique and extremely overpowered in their own way and it was amazing.

Exactly. The KIND of "balance" Blizzard is going for makes the game dull and boring. You can have balance. But it does not mean that everyone needs to have the same skill set and do the same amount of damage, healing and so on. Now everyone does everything pretty much the same way and almost equaly well. And if some class is doing something better, well there is the nerfbat to the face.
Having classes and builds which excell at very specific things may seem counter intuitive, but it makes the whole thing way more fun. You char may not be the best equipped or best played, but from time to time YOUR hour is upon you. Having something only you can do REALY well makes you feel special. Makes the moment special. And even in PvP, yeah you may bitch about that guy who did something you are not able to do. But you will enjoy your win against him even much more. And getting pwnd is even less of an issue, because you have your own special trick for next time.