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  1. #781
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaelan View Post
    Just play another spec until you get heroic gear needs to go away.
    This issue is what I hope they focus on for 6.0. It's going to require a redesign of both fire (so lower geared fire mages don't suck completely) and frost (so capping 2 out of 3 secondary stats doesn't happen with normal mode gear).

  2. #782
    I just hopped on the ptr to try out things, havent been on since the icicles were implemented. I love the RoP change. That essentially solves all of arcanes problems. So much space to move around in. Not many bad things are that large.

    I felt like I was doing more damage with more than the 9k haste breakpoint than i was sitting on it though. Hopefully our gearing allows excess haste.

  3. #783
    Deleted
    After testing Immerseus last night as Arcane I really see few issues about it. Juggernaut the main offender at the moment.

  4. #784
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    After testing Immerseus last night as Arcane I really see few issues about it. Juggernaut the main offender at the moment.
    Siegecrafter is also a main offender. Maybe more in 10m than 25m but still

  5. #785
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandacally View Post
    Siegecrafter is also a main offender. Maybe more in 10m than 25m but still
    Siegecrafter was fine on 25M, considering that's all I care about there's my answer to that

  6. #786
    Curious about this combustion nerf. Where does it put this spell on the priority list? Is it even worth trying to chain crit pyros for the big combust anymore?

  7. #787
    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    Curious about this combustion nerf. Where does it put this spell on the priority list? Is it even worth trying to chain crit pyros for the big combust anymore?
    It still is and it'll still be top priority. You just don't need to fret about it so much.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  8. #788
    Scarab Lord Vynestra's Avatar
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    This thread needs to be renamed

    "Finally fire nerfs, frost gets nerfed after buffs too. Arcane still unscathed"

  9. #789
    You could argue Arcane was buffed with the RoP change. Technically, all 3 specs COULD use it, and it is possible there may be situations where it will be optimal for the other 2 specs. This change does however, have a disproportionate benefit for Arcane.

  10. #790
    Scarab Lord Vynestra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methusula View Post
    You could argue Arcane was buffed with the RoP change. Technically, all 3 specs COULD use it, and it is possible there may be situations where it will be optimal for the other 2 specs. This change does however, have a disproportionate benefit for Arcane.
    Technically using rop is a dmg increase over invocation. Since it's half the cast time. That's if you stand in it constantly, and after 5.4 it is much easier.

    I wouldn't say it's better for arcane just because it's the only one we use, because fire mages could pump extra dps out of it being able to scorch within the larger area..

    Technically fire and frost can get a lot of benefit out of it as well.


    However I do see what you are saying, and it's a complete flaw in design on blizzards part that we're forced to use one talent over another because we wouldn't be viable without it. It's hard to put an actual # on how much it'll increase our dps out-put, and I wouldn't mind a small nerf tbh. If it happens I won't be upset, and I know if it does happen it won't be anything major.

    If arcanes damage IS too high, then by all means nerf it. I just wish the fire mages saw nerfs through my eyes. If the damage is too high, then it deserves a nerf, even if it is the spec i'm playing.

  11. #791
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    Technically using rop is a dmg increase over invocation. Since it's half the cast time. That's if you stand in it constantly, and after 5.4 it is much easier.

    I wouldn't say it's better for arcane just because it's the only one we use, because fire mages could pump extra dps out of it being able to scorch within the larger area..

    Technically fire and frost can get a lot of benefit out of it as well.


    However I do see what you are saying, and it's a complete flaw in design on blizzards part that we're forced to use one talent over another because we wouldn't be viable without it. It's hard to put an actual # on how much it'll increase our dps out-put, and I wouldn't mind a small nerf tbh. If it happens I won't be upset, and I know if it does happen it won't be anything major.

    If arcanes damage IS too high, then by all means nerf it. I just wish the fire mages saw nerfs through my eyes. If the damage is too high, then it deserves a nerf, even if it is the spec i'm playing.
    The added benefit for Arcane that I was referring to is that they have the worst mobility and anything to increase general Mage mobility will impact Arcane the most. Then there is also the fact they are pigeon-holed into RoP already because it provides the most mana return.

    The only benefit Fire and Frost would see is the scenario where they don't leave the rune for the entire duration, in which case they get an extra gcd every minute.

    Not sure what you mean about Fire Mages being able to pump out extra dps while in the rune. Invocation allows you to scorch anywhere in the whole room within range of the boss. The only benefit as I said, is the extra gcd in a perfect situation.

    The difference with Fire nerfs, is they almost always impact actual game play, not just numbers. I don't have a huge problem with this nerf since it will have less impact on how the spec plays than others might have.
    Last edited by Methusula; 2013-08-22 at 08:24 PM.

  12. #792
    Quote Originally Posted by Matuka View Post
    white T6 priest set
    Nice spam.

  13. #793
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    If arcanes damage IS too high, then by all means nerf it. I just wish the fire mages saw nerfs through my eyes. If the damage is too high, then it deserves a nerf, even if it is the spec i'm playing.
    Fire mages might see nerfs through your eyes if you hadn't gone on record 2 weeks before CALLING specifically for Fire to get nerfed so that you could play your favorite spec. I think we all knew a nerf was incoming, it just seems heavy handed on the signature spell(60% seems way too much at first glance) and one real DPS cooldown that Fire has. But it was inevitable I think. It just scales too well with all our stats. I think most people were expecting another Pyroblast nerf. As big of a problem that Combustion is, Pyro is still 35-40% of my average total damage on fights(maybe not fights like Council though).

  14. #794
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    If arcanes damage IS too high, then by all means nerf it. I just wish the fire mages saw nerfs through my eyes. If the damage is too high, then it deserves a nerf, even if it is the spec i'm playing.
    Wat? Most people were in agreement that fire needed a nerf. Granted - A lot of initial data was obtained when the Amp trinket was absolutely game-breaking and heavily inflated Fire DPS. But still, people recognized that fire was scaling very well and should be brought in line. I think the only thoughts going through (reasonable) people's minds now are

    a) How much has the nerf really hurt fire. I.E. is it too low now? and
    b) With Combustion being our only real "fire" CD, what does this change do to damage the identity of the spec and how it feels to play?

    Some other questions might be how Frost is scaling with the new mastery changes (I haven't read much into Frost, I really dis-like it's current play style) and if Arcane may need some minor reductions to keep it in line, since it also scales well and now has had the burden of perfect RoP placement removed.

    I don't think either of these questions will be answered fully until the patch is released and the majority of mages here have a chance to raid and experience what Fire is in 5.4 vs. 5.3. But for now we can speculate! And speculate we have

  15. #795
    Deleted
    Hows the new frost mastery going to affect us pvp wise, doesn't look very bursty.

  16. #796
    Making it less bursty was entirely the point

  17. #797
    Scarab Lord Vynestra's Avatar
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    Also, re-thinking arcane's burstyness will help on quite a few fights. I know it'll help with immerseus, which'll be a joke anyway...But you can burn adds down quicker.

    Same with the third boss, when you go into your own realm it's multiple mobs. Fire needs a build up where as arcane can just blow it up. So just thinking off the first few fights it'll be helpful but not a must.

    I think a few other bosses it may help too, will need to re-look at a few.

  18. #798
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    Also, re-thinking arcane's burstyness will help on quite a few fights. I know it'll help with immerseus, which'll be a joke anyway...But you can burn adds down quicker.

    Same with the third boss, when you go into your own realm it's multiple mobs. Fire needs a build up where as arcane can just blow it up. So just thinking off the first few fights it'll be helpful but not a must.

    I think a few other bosses it may help too, will need to re-look at a few.
    They added shields onto the adds on the third boss so no one can "just blow it up". Hurts Arcane more due to increased movement.

  19. #799
    Quote Originally Posted by Methusula View Post
    You could argue Arcane was buffed with the RoP change. Technically, all 3 specs COULD use it, and it is possible there may be situations where it will be optimal for the other 2 specs. This change does however, have a disproportionate benefit for Arcane.
    The only situation is 0 movement fights. RoP as Frost/Fire saves you about a global. For the complete mobility tradeoff, I'm 100% okay with never EVER bothering to touch that garbage spell.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  20. #800
    Scarab Lord Vynestra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    The only situation is 0 movement fights. RoP as Frost/Fire saves you about a global. For the complete mobility tradeoff, I'm 100% okay with never EVER bothering to touch that garbage spell.
    Lol, that is the only thing I hate about arcane is the rune.

    I hate invocation more though, I just have bad memories of being frost/fire and pulling lack-luster dps, and now being arcane with more gear and pulling amazing numbers.

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