Why do lesser skilled players feel entitled to see content?

[Lord Blackmore]

It does a whole lot to the community. How can you not see that? If everyone is doing LFR with total strangers on other realms, your own realm community will die, it's just a matter of time. Plus everyone will be spoiled and the mystery is gone(even if you dont think mystery matters, it actually does for alot of people).

Do people really think that LFR is the reason for the problems with the community? I can say with utmost confidence that the community has been broken for a long time. Well before LFR showed up. The community that some people speak of, you know, the one from "back in the day" isn't coming back. Blizzard could remove LFR, LFD and cross realm BGs tomorrow and the community won't come back.

Trotting out the same tired old "community" arguments when discussing LFR is pointless.

[Deleted]

As I said before that argument is invalid. Just because you pay doesn't mean you get to see everything. And seeing everything doesn't make the game a better more enjoyable game.

Ok so whats the point in paying for a game your only going to see half of? raid finder shouldn't make a difference to half the people in this thread since they raid heroic anyway people these days just look for something to whine about or they aren't happy specially the wow community.

Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
It does a whole lot to the community. How can you not see that? If everyone is doing LFR with total strangers on other realms, your own realm community will die, it's just a matter of time. Plus everyone will be spoiled and the mystery is gone(even if you dont think mystery matters, it actually does for alot of people).

and lfr don't ruin the community on one server either the community on wow had gone down hill before raid finder came out in cata...so that argument is invalid as well

[anaxie]

WoW is a great example of it's the numbers that do matter.

Meanwhile, LFR is 25-man not 40.

You missed his meaning. He is saying that 5 players could put forth more effort then the average 25 lfr players combined.

This old video from some <Adept> guild pvp is a great example of numbers meaning dick. 5 players kill an entire 40Man GG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFu5FBWQkzw

Hilarious video imo. and before you even begin to say they players they are attacking were fighting a faction boss. They had to run PAST these players and continued to run around derping allowing them to attack them rather then eliminating the threat.

Coordinated players will always be more effective then a swarm of players with no direction.

[Seefer]

Ok so whats the point in paying for a game your only going to see half of? raid finder shouldn't make a difference to half the people in this thread since they raid heroic anyway people these days just look for something to whine about or they aren't happy specially the wow community.

What's the point in buying a console game if I can never get all of the achievements because some of it is beyond my skill level? Point is there was evidently enough to keep people who didn't raid happy long before LFR when subs were actually fucking CLIMBING and not DROPPING.

[heltvild]

if all players who only doing LFR would quit, they would probably stop making raids. Or you would get like 6 bosses raids once a year. Dont think they would make 12 bosses raids each 6-8~ months for that 1% of the playerbase.

[DeadmanWalking]

Again extremely nonsensical reasoning

I just want the game to decide who gets to experience the content and not anonymous jackass players.

[barackohmama]

swing and a miss

LFD came out in 3.3.0 (8/12/09) when WoW had around 11.5 million subs (according to the press releases and / or quarterly reports) this number rose a little (to 12 million) and stayed at that high for a couple of quarters, then dropped to around 11.4 million in March 2011.

So that's what, 15 months of flat to no growth with a little loss at the end and this is it "starting with LFD"?

Just for the record as well, because you know, facts and shit are fun:

Cata release was about 12 million, then it dropped to 11.4, then it dropped to 11.1, then it dropped to 10.3 then out come the annual pass and DS and LFR and it dropped to.....

10.2, and you know what happened after that, it stayed at 10.2

So 5 quarters of falling subs, out comes the annual pass (which I'd argue would only appeal to people going to sub anyway, why would you sign up for another 12 months if you were already thinking about leaving?) and LFR and the subs stay steady.....

Of course the next record I've got is a fall to 9.2 (June 12) but on the back of DS being out for 7 months, SW:TOR in AUS, the 1.2 TOR patch (which fixed a number of issues with it) and D3 all coming out in that time.

So tell me again, what did LFD and LFR do?

LFD and LFR did exactly what you just showed. It dropped wow from 12+ million subscribers to 8 million(you didn't link that number) now in MoP. Of course LFD and LFR is not everything to blame, the game is also old. But it certainly does not help. What "keeps" people in the game nowdays is getting fed quickly by new content, not the community itself, which is kinda sad.

[Deleted]

Typical flamebait thread and almost 2700 replies ... oh my. Great job OP.

Contribute if you're going to post, please

[Deleted]

No. I consider myself an average player and even then some of the fights are nod-worthy easy. We don't want validation, we want challenging. If you keep nerfing things so the "less-skilled" can see content then it means all your "skilled" players find new games. We complain because the retarded dumbing down of the game to suit "less-skilled" players, means that our skilled player base is going elsewhere, to other games where there are still challenges that mean something. I miss having equally skilled players to hang out with/raid with. And knocking someones accomplishment threshold because it doesn't match your own is ignorant. I like going to bed and thinking, "I had fun today." And I don't appreciate anyone telling me that my fun is any less important than their fun. If you want to play normals and Heroics, play BETTER or stick to LFR. Nerfing my fun IS affecting my DESIRE to play.

To answer the OP, because less skilled players don't understand that they are BAD.

just reading the little bit about 'your skilled players find new games' made me laugh so hard let the elitist lot leave for a new game they always come running back to wow after a month or two lol...

[Clevername]

oh another one of these threads, it must be that time of week again.

Contribute if you're going to post, please

[alturic]

Do people really think that LFR is the reason for the problems with the community? I can say with utmost confidence that the community has been broken for a long time. Well before LFR showed up. The community that some people speak of, you know, the one from "back in the day" isn't coming back. Blizzard could remove LFR, LFD and cross realm BGs tomorrow and the community won't come back.

Trotting out the same tired old "community" arguments when discussing LFR is pointless.

Actually, removing things that helped remove the "community" would bring the community back. I mean it's pretty obvious, no? If there's no 1 click heroic queue, or raid queue, or bg queue people need to obviously use trade to do those things.

The only thing those things did was make reputation mean nothing as you'll never see the people you queued with again. I'm not saying the community was better before those things, trade chat was certainly livelier and people actually had to give a LITTLE bit of care to their reputation. Then again, they'd get pissed if people kicked them out of the run and started badmouthing them in trade instead of trying to get better anyway.

[caninepawprints]

"Do you have the purples? No? Then you don't get the purples."

This is such a good point! I see this all the time! Players who are forming raids want the players they're gathering to have an item level equal to or exceeding the content they want to raid. I've often said to people, "If I already had the gear, I wouldn't even want to raid it!" It basically comes down to one poorly geared "hardcore" player who wants to gear his alt, and he's only accepting people who outgear the content so they'll carry them through it.

Few people take into consideration that when we enter that first raid at the start of each new expansion, we're ALL wearing blues. There's little point in raiding content you outgear unless you're just doing it for the hell of it.

[Deleted]

Must resist urge to insult op for being the usual asshat! Dammit, failed again!

Infracted. Flaming is not tolerated here

[barackohmama]

Ok so whats the point in paying for a game your only going to see half of? raid finder shouldn't make a difference to half the people in this thread since they raid heroic anyway people these days just look for something to whine about or they aren't happy specially the wow community.

Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
It does a whole lot to the community. How can you not see that? If everyone is doing LFR with total strangers on other realms, your own realm community will die, it's just a matter of time. Plus everyone will be spoiled and the mystery is gone(even if you dont think mystery matters, it actually does for alot of people).

and lfr don't ruin the community on one server either the community on wow had gone down hill before raid finder came out in cata...so that argument is invalid as well

It's the option to see more that drives people and keeps them paying. LFR actually destroys that incentive, while stuff like achivements and high cost mounts is he only option. You might think it's more fun to see and have everything, but when you actually get it you realize that it's the journey that made it fun, not the goal itself.

[caninepawprints]

Actually, removing things that helped remove the "community" would bring the community back.

Then Blizzard would lose subscribers so fast, the game would die overnight. I remember sitting in Shattrath City for FOUR HOURS trying to find a TANK just to do a dungeon. In fact, I created a tank just so I could always find dungeon groups, but once I out geared the content, I never wanted to go through the dungeons with her again, unless it was a personal favor to my friends and guild members. This isn't an isolated experience, which is why LFD was put into the game. It was wonderful being able to quest for thirty minutes until the dungeon group formed rather than doing nothing in a city until I could find that last person willing to run the dungeon. Now I see players complaining about long queue times, and all I can think is, "You really have no idea..."

LFD was so successful that Blizzard implemented LFR, which has also been a huge success. If they removed LFD and LFR, they'd lose so many players, they'd probably stop production on the game altogether (or make it free to play).

[heltvild]

It would just be so funny if Blizzard removed LFR, and WoW would drop another 2-3 mil subs, then Blizzard would say "ok guyz, so few people raiding now so we can't spend dev time making them anymore, have fun!".

I would laugh at OP and all elitist asshats

[DeadmanWalking]

LFD and LFR did exactly what you just showed. It dropped wow from 12+ million subscribers to 8 million(you didn't link that number) now in MoP. Of course LFD and LFR is not everything to blame, the game is also old. But it certainly does not help. What "keeps" people in the game nowdays is getting fed quickly by new content, not the community itself, which is kinda sad.

The community you tout was a pipe dream that never actually existed. Sure if a noob that misbehaved because they didn't understand social rules existed you could black list him off the server but the truth of the matter is there were always going to be people who could get away with misbehaving because the other people in their group would get a laugh out of it and slap them on the back. Policing players on your server only worked if they didn't have a group of friends that thought bad behavior was worth a lol.

But thats not the problem with LFR, the problem with LFR is that people who were deemed 'undesirable' get access to content and the special snowflake club has been closed permanantly.

I dont want anonymous jackasses to throttle the content door, I want Blizzard to set the requirements to see the content.

[Nekovivie]

It would just be so funny if Blizzard removed LFR, and WoW would drop another 2-3 mil subs, then Blizzard would say "ok guyz, so few people raiding now so we can't spend dev time making them anymore, have fun!".

I would laugh at OP and all elitist asshats

Then all the people who clear LFR and unsub because they've seen everything would play for longer working through normals, and subs would rise. Then Blizzard would say 'Oh, LFR is making it too easy, I guess we wont go down that road again'.

I would laugh at all the casual whiners and you.

[Seefer]

This is such a good point! I see this all the time! Players who are forming raids want the players they're gathering to have an item level equal to or exceeding the content they want to raid. I've often said to people, "If I already had the gear, I wouldn't even want to raid it!" It basically comes down to one poorly geared "hardcore" player who wants to gear his alt, and he's only accepting people who outgear the content so they'll carry them through it.

Few people take into consideration that when we enter that first raid at the start of each new expansion, we're ALL wearing blues. There's little point in raiding content you outgear unless you're just doing it for the hell of it.

See? That's the problem with you people, it's all about the gear..........for me and most people who actually raid normal/heroic the gear is just a tool to beat the challenge, but again you guys fear challenge it seems and only want the loots.

[Darsithis]

I think after 134 pages, all that can be said, has been said. We're going in circles at this point with the same arguments over and over and over interspersed with flaming against the OP and the usual "oh, this thread again?"-style posts.