"you don't have any kills, sorry"... always hiding behind that same lame excuse

[Deleted]

Wrong glyphs, bad attitude (I'm better than everyone I play with comment), overall no raiding experience, laziness and refusal to just start your own group.

"I don't like guilds because I have bad experiences". Make your own guild. Make your own logs, and show people that you're worth bringing.

He could also found a family and raid with them! Also to be more charismatic he should become his countries hero and earn some nice titles in real life that would give his applications more appeal if he doesn't go the family road. There seem to be many possibilities how to get into raiding!

[Shaley]

He could also found a family and raid with them! Also to be more charismatic he should become his countries hero and earn some nice titles in real life that would give his applications more appeal if he doesn't go the family road. There seem to be many possibilities how to get into raiding!

Let's keep it coherent.

[Rabian]

You are in a guild called <Bloodthirsty Pwners>, that probably doesn't help people's opinion of you

[jazzyy]

it might vary from server to server but

to put into perspective i started playing in cata and never was raid ready (i had to go to college and i just outright quit cause i didn't want to bother), i resubbed during MoP but once again school was taking priority over that so I didn't really play up until a month ago. Anyway, I recently started raiding and I found it impossible to get into a group because either:

1) i didn't have achievement
2) my ilvl was low even though I was doing enough dps required by each raid (well over 70k in MSV and 90k in ToT) pugs just want easy runs
3) i would be rolling on the gear they already had (seriously, agi leather wearers are in such abundance)

so my solution was pretty simple. i just made my own pug. and you know what I did? i told everyone that no exp/achiev needed. i got a lot of bad players on my msv run, and it sucked, but i was RLing despite barely knowing the fights and the only tool at my disposal was icy-veins on my second monitor and ventrilo with 3-4 of the RG in it.

pugging is pretty damn simple, there will always be people who want a care free run but to get that achievement or to get that gear you need to go above and beyond getting carried by 532 ilvl people every raid, you need to make your own pugs, you need to learn the fights, you need to put in the work to tell pubs how to do it, and to kick them when they are clearly incompetent and replace them when needed.

that's just how it is, why should you expect to get into group when you can show no contribution whatsoever? you don't have the achievement, your gear is probably lower than what most require, so if they want an easy run, let them.

going into msv and tot i had no idea how the fights worked other than my brief experiences with lfr, all you need is enough awareness and intelligence to understand the mechanics before they kill you, or you can suck up and ask the raid group how it works. pugs seem to be really infatuated with not asking in the offchance they get flamed.

[Kiea]

I believe it's time for a little story.

I started playing 1-2 months before WotLK, I never even reached 50 before WotLK came out, by that time I decided to roll a death knight like everyone else. Now, let's quickly go back a little, why did I start playing? simple. My big brother (6 years older than me) started to play and I tried the game once before but quit at level 30 after getting hacked twice.

Now, while leveling I made some friends, some I spoke with till max level, we were all noobs to the game, my past gaming experiences were RTS games, WC3, C&C, and I was never really good at them. When first starting, I started because i loved warcraft, I had no clue about raiding, dungeons or anything.

Let's move on shall we? I wanted to try raiding because my brother had friends who were doing it and he talked about it. Despite reaching 80 somewhere in December 2008 I believe, I didn't clear Naxxramas untill after I got my paladin (original char) to 80, and even then it was first cleared in May.

Now throughout that time I jumped about on the server I was, did pugs, played the game and had fun. When Ulduar came out I joined a 10man guild where some of my ingame friends had joined, on our first raidnight we did 7 or 8 bosses in Ulduar, was great fun, but the GM disappeared and the guild died and I quit the game for some time, It wasn't untill ToC had already come out I returned, I joined some random guild, did ToC10 normal with them and I guess 25man normal in my Naxxramas geared Paladin tank, as the 3rd tank .
That guild was a quick stop, I believe I was actually kicked from it, probably because I was an idiot, so I decided to migrate to another server, and just as an update, my brother stopped playing long ago so I was on my own.

So, I get to this new server, I did a ToC pug with a group and got into their 10man guild, we did 4 heroics in ToGC before ICC, however I was benched for the first 2 weeks for ICC; and therefor I left the guild to join a 25man normal guild, I stayed here the longest yet, going on for almost 5 months I believe, I again started as the 3rd tank, however after a couple of months I was the maintank, yet the furthest we ever got was killing Putricide, and only doing it with the world event buff (something that gave everyone attack/spell power and 3% crit).
That guild however started to fall apart, I left it abit before because I wanted more, I joined a guild who I believe had already killed Lich King, however before my first raid with these guys I was approached by someone from my old guild who were forming a new guild, where I was one of the officers to be. It however ended fairly abruptly, with us only killing I believe 9 bosses in ICC 25man over a couple of weeks, too much drama killed it off, I joined another guild, this time one that was on Lich King normal, with 9 or so 10man heroics.

Oh also, I had switched to my hunter as main by this point, I only ever played survival so far. Joining this guild was one of those "bad experiences", even though we cleared 10 heroics in 10man, and 3 in 25man I was harrased by other members of the guild, even though I was praised by the officers. I quit this after a month due to that, and joined the guild I am in now, Solidarity. At the time Solidarity had 11/12H in ICC 25man, and full clear in 10man HC. These guys were obviously a step above me.

Here we also come to the point where, I had never played MM, the best hunter spec at the time, so not only did I join this guild far above me, but I was in new territory regarding my class.

Now, the story gets kinda boring, I eventually passed my trial, and I became known as one of the best players, the guild ended wrath with a world rank 350, T11 just above 100, T12 at 72 and T13 at 47. MoP came around but the guild wanted to raid more, and I couldn't before of RL commitments, mostly school, and I quit.

I returned after they finished T14 at rank 24, but they disbanded at that poitn and it was only a few weeks into T15 that I suggested to our old GM and one of the officers to start up again as a 10man, raiding 2 days/week. This got off the ground quick, we have people to raid within 7 days, although some of those people were in well... BiS gear from dragon soul, add that ontop of the fact we haven't been so stable and only got to raiding a little over 2 months ago properly, still with issues though, we kept a 1 HC boss kill/week schedule.


Now, you can read this and it may or may not help you, but it shows you how I advanced, the first guilds I joined, I'm pretty sure you could skip 2 weeks and still get a spot for farm day. Throughout all this I contineous formed and led pugs, they became more organized later on, with calenders, but during early ICC before Solidarity (and some after too), I was doing ToC 25man on thursday afternoon, ICC 25man on friday afternoon, clearing between 4-10 is, slowly becoming better. Aside from that I did a lot of 10mans, my first Lich King guild was in a PuG I created, using no VoIP at all, and it felt good.

However, lets get to where it can be a problem, today blizzard tries and give you the achievement, via LFR, but that simply forces pug makers to go to your armory and look up the achievements, where they can see more flaws.

Another thing that isn't good is pugs used to be both 10 and 25man, in 25man I would generally have some guildies or friends I knew could carry abit, but the fact remains that 1 or 2 or 5 screwups is not as bad in 25man than it is in 10man, which funnily enough is the EXACT reason LFR is 25man, not 10 or both.

And finally, my solution - OpenRaid.eu

This website has calenders for anything cross server, you sign up and there is plenty of raids for MSV and what not which dont require achievements other than LFR and being on a VoIP, success vary, but I've seen these clear it all, and with this you cannot do current tier, but you start getting the previous tier HC down, you should be able to join a normal mode ToT guild - AND PLEASE don't be afraid to server transfer, it is required if you wanna find the right fit, I've gone through countless guilds over the years before finding my home.

Hope I was of help.

[sasofrass]

Flexx raiding comes next tier, so you'll be able to do that to get the experience for normal modes. Should make it easier for you to pug at least.

[Tsuna]

my previous guild was basically that. a few hundred Belgian and Dutch players who just played together and bantered. I chose to leave them because of 3 reasons:

1) the quality of raiders was mainly just awful.
2) they had just a 10 man raid and nothing else regular.
3) most of them didn't know the game even half as well as I did, and were just insultingly ignorant when I tried to explain it to them, AND then twisting the words I said to imply I was a bad player. Sorry, but I can't take arrogance well. Thinking you know the game better than someone who has invested 40 hours inside and outside the game per week for the past 5 years is just arrogant and ignorant.

I don't know you well enough to judge. But try reading that again, and imagine yourself as ANYONE else. You really do sound like you have a lousy attitude towards other people. Just gonna be blunt about this, I don't think any forum advice will get you far until you lose some of that ego.

[Hexotic]

would open raid be an option? I havent really used it myself, so I dont know what expectations people have there.

[QuinthalasKT]

The key to entering a halfway decent guild is to put up some killer logs. Basically, put up some logs where you're getting admirably close to a sim for your gear, then link that sim alongside the log.

Gear and kills are easy to fix. Players are not. Having some old experience really helps, so if you're wanting to break into heroics, then you'll want to at the very start with some mostly normal-mode guilds or something.

Alternatively, you can as one person suggested, simply start your own pugs! Nobody can refute you, then.

That's the problem, why does he have to show logs and sim comparisons for LFR and really low end normal mode guilds? I've only had to show that kind of proof when I app'd to top 10 guilds. That just goes to show how cancerous the "elitist" mentality has come, when even probably bad players feel they can ask for overqualified participants.

You don't see McDonald's or Wal-Mart asking for college degrees for their basic positions, but that's what raiding low end feels like nowadays, sadly. :/

[Balazzar]

It is the nature of WoW for players to basically want to be the worst player in their ruin (i.e. if they are ilvl 515, they will not consider accepting anyone below that)... to everyone saying "cite your logs" or "submit an application" to do a Pug, this shows how out-of-touch MOP pugging is from what it used to be. This is a group of randoms you are playing with for a few hours.


OP, just LFR it out and/or unsub until Flex. I have got into freaking MSV runs where "i490 + req" and it was loaded with baddies from some guild who basically just want the pugs to carry them. The best luck I have is coordinating with a few of the players in my casual guild, and we just use WoW friend's lists... The downside being we never do anything beyond ToES b/c of Horridon-pwning of our ToT pugs.

In sum, the raiding community itself is to blame for its much-whined "lack of new talent." WoW is not a sheik game anymore. It is old. The fresh faces will never waste time compiling logs, sitting and filing out your inane application forms, etc.

[melodramocracy]

That just goes to show how cancerous the "elitist" mentality has come, when even probably bad players feel they can ask for overqualified participants.

This is a problem that will eventually just fix itself. The silver lining of LFR is the idea that Joe Casual Raider no longer needs to be subject himself to the whims of guild / pug leaders to see content.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

What's up with ppl saying that he should get into a 4/12 NORMAL guild? If any1 has 4/12 normal as an organized GUILD now, you really don't want to join them, cus they are obviously horrible.

OP, with your gear, you should not have any problem getting into a 12/12 normal guild, if lucky, you should be able to get into something like 3-5/13 HC. However, that is only based on your gear.

When applying to a guild, gear is not the most important. How you present yourself, your knowledge of the game, your class, and raiding in general, is. As for knowing the fights, just watch vids, read up about each individual fight. Make sure you KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING before applying. As an Officer of a 11/13 HC 25man guild, there's nothing more annoying than having to correct applicants about how to play their own class. Make sure you fix everything, your gems, your reforging, your enchants BEFORE you apply, not after an Officer have pointed out what you did wrong (this will in most cases result in a decline).

If you really want to get into pugs, just try to convince them that you are better than your average pug Dps. That you know all the fights, and won't be a liability. Or just create your own.

[Itisamuh]

And this alone justifies LFR. How pathetic that in order to get an achievement, people expect you to already have said achievement.

[Wildtree]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Nzall/advanced

I'm at wits end. I can get nothing from LFR except a belt and 4P T15. I can get minor upgrades from heroic caches for some slots. but every time I try to join a normal ToT raid pug from trade, I get a reply in the vein of "sorry, you don't have any kills" or "looking for someone with more exp". And that's if they don't simply demand AotC right away, even for a non-lei shen pug. They check armory, so I cannot fake my achievement.

I could bribe someone, but that would take quite abit of time. I could join a guild, but I have nothing but bad experiences from guilds, either from malicious guild masters or from ignorant and dumb guildies. and even if I can find a decent guild, they ALSO ASK EXP...

It's a vicious circle: I can't get EXP because I don't have any EXP.

You, sir, are the sole example why Blizzard (amongst other reasons) came up with the LFR solution in the first place.
The community changed over time a lot, and at some point the pug requirements became rather idiotic. That's not just for the current tier. That's also for former tiers. I've seen times and again pugs asking for ilevel of 500+ for an MSV normal run.

Your valid choices would be, to advertise in the different forums for a guild that in fact takes someone like you.
Either large progression guilds with multiple raid groups that also run casually, or "alt groups".
Or rather smaller guilds that actually haven't progressed too far just yet.
You could check Wowprogress for your realm, and see which guilds aren't through ToT normal yet. There should be some. And then approach them.

- - - Updated - - -

What's up with ppl saying that he should get into a 4/12 NORMAL guild? If any1 has 4/12 normal as an organized GUILD now, you really don't want to join them, cus they are obviously horrible.

The only thing horrible is your judgmental approach...
There are always guilds that starting late. Guilds that fell apart and have to start over with new team and new guild... There are plenty of reasons why guilds are not at the end of a raid but at the beginning. And often enough it's not because they are bad...

[Nobleshield]

The only thing horrible is your judgmental approach...
There are always guilds that starting late. Guilds that fell apart and have to start over with new team and new guild... There are plenty of reasons why guilds are not at the end of a raid but at the beginning. And often enough it's not because they are bad...

That's kind of the double-edged sword though isn't it? Without the kills/experience you can't easily get into a guild clearing normal because they'll want to start progression on heroics and won't take lightly to someone wiping because they don't know the fights on normal or heroic. A guild deep into heroics wants to focus on the harder heroic kills, not help someone who hasn't done normal mode, no matter their skill, because it halts progression. A guild clearing heroics typically won't take a chance on people who aren't coming from other top-ranked guilds (barring the friends/family rank) where skills and dedication are proven in past heroic clears (at least that's my experience; I know the top guild on my server doesn't look at anyone who isn't coming from another top-ranked guild; they don't have the time to focus on helping someone get to their level and want people at their level already). A guild at the cusp of clearing normal modes needs someone to help them down Lei Shen or whatever late boss they're working on. So the OP's only chance is to guild hop from a 4/12 "scrub" guild to a 6/12 "scrub" guild etc. etc. by which time T16 will probably be out and his options are to either try and get into a good guild that can clear T16 (because while previous tier clears are good, they aren't required as its a new tier with new fights) or continue the cycle and wait until the next expansion to try to get in on the ground floor of a good guild since there will be a gear reset again.

[nightfalls]

So the OP's only chance is to guild hop from a 4/12 "scrub" guild to a 6/12 "scrub" guild etc. etc.

Not true, if you do well in the 4-6 fights, you can jump far more than 2-4 bosses ahead.

[Jainzar]

This has always been the case. If it wasn't gearscore it was iLevel. If not iLevel it was "link achieve".

the problem is that you have to start somewhere. if you're forming a pug or running a guild, you obviously want to run it as smoothly as possible. if you do not know someone, you have to have some sort of measurement you can look at to select your group members. you're not just gonna invite random people who you don't know anything about at all.

and the harsh truth is that the random wow player is terrible at playing his class and understanding basic boss mechanics. it's sad, but it's true.

[Deleted]

Theres no point taking a person who havent killed the bosses. Its a 50/50 chance he will do good, someone with an achievement atleast knows something. This was not the case in my old server, which had like 70% Italian players which were usually useless in a pug since they didnt speak english nor did they actually know any tactics (even with like 5 kills of the same boss they were astonishingly clueless)

[Deleted]

Theres only one important question as the raid leader:
Can i get a better player in a short timeframe?
If yes you are out.

[jenia]

im sure if you were trying to make a pug yourself you would prefer to take people that have your same progress level or higher , its understandable that people allready cleared normal or killed most bosses dont want to go in with "progression" type of ppl who didnt kill anything. ofc that person who has no exp can be the best tank/dps/healer you ever met but it also can go the other way , would you take the chance or try to better your odds of a clear with more experienced ppl?
overall what most people said is correct if you wanna raid and like doing so on regular basis then join a guild with your level of progress(kinda hard this late into mop but still doable) and if after you get some kills/exp/gear you decide you can challange yourself higher then you can find something else more suitable to your progression needs/lvl. but blaming pugs that want exp or ilvl wont get you any further.