"you don't have any kills, sorry"... always hiding behind that same lame excuse

[Axelond]

PuGs want a fast and easy clear and its the RL that decides what req he thinks is needed to clear ToT without a lot of wipes, Also if you keep getting denied from having to little progress you are probably aiming too high. There is plenty of people just like you that wants to go into ToT normal and just clear a few bosses with some wipes and then once you cleared maybe first 5 bosses in worse pugs you can aim for the better ones, If I am doing a PuG and someone tells me they have killed the first two bosses know tactics for rest and have decent gear I would invite them even if the exp is low but if someone comes to me expecting to be boosted 12/12 normal without any exp I would much rather wait until someones who has a 12/12 achi wants to join

[Deleted]

You are not alone and many many people are simply quiting the game because it's not worth it.
So if blizzard wants to catch you guys up they will change the game for you. Just be patient and show them that the (end/raid)game is currently not entertaining for you as it is - don't raid / play at all. With flex they try to something and they will change even more if it is not enough to stop people dropping out.

You definitely shouldn't force yourself to appeal super and pressure yourself to hold the fake image. If reality is not enough drop it. You are free and blizzard will get hurt because it's not you alone but a whole lot of players hence they will do something.

If you think it's worth nonetheless try what others here recommend.

[Deleted]

From reading the OP I think you're afraid of trying to join a guild.

I don't blame him tbh. The attitudes people get when they have a little experience under their belts can be appalling.

The last progression guild I left (10/13 25 man heroic now) I did because the way the raiders spoke to the trialists was disgusting. You can say 'grow a thicker skin' all you like but a lot of people don't play games to be mocked and insulted.

To the OP, I suggest you find a (friendly) guild which does social raiding, there should be plenty on your realm then you can step up to more challenging venues if you feel up to it

[Belloc]

What does this mean? "I can get nothing from LFR except a belt and 4P T15". It means he can only get a belt and 4p t15. He should say "I can only get a belt and 4 p".

... look at his gear. He has full 502+ gear except for his belt. Aside from his belt, he could use his 4 piece bonus. That is exactly what he suggested in his post. You suggested that he could still get trinkets from LFR. If you look at his armory you will see that he already has LFR trinkets in both slots.

What's so hard to understand? What are you even arguing here? If you're arguing his choice of words, then you should pay attention to the line that came after, " I can get minor upgrades from heroic caches for some slots." That implies that he already has nearly full LFR gear.

Reading comprehension is important!

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I didn't read any responses, only searched for a keyword I didn't find.
So, here goes: Have you tried Open Raid? http://www.openraid.us for US players, http://www.openraid.eu for EU players.
Many ask for experience there as well, but you might be abit more lucky there than anywhere else. I've gotten loads of runs on my alts through that site without them asking for experience beyond that I've read tacts. I know them all from raiding on my main, but they don't know that.

Honesty goes along way. Just say you lack experience, but you have read up and stuff.
Sadly, it doesn't work for current tier, as in Throne of Thunder, but you can get older tiers done, and that helps alot for ToT pugs as well when they see you've done the older raids.

Unfortunately, ToT is not available on openraid due to the fact that you cannot raid ToT cross-realm.

[Deleted]

I don't blame him tbh. The attitudes people get when they have a little experience under their belts can be appalling.

The last progression guild I left (10/13 25 man heroic now) I did because the way the raiders spoke to the trialists was disgusting. You can say 'grow a thicker skin' all you like but a lot of people don't play games to be mocked and insulted.

To the OP, I suggest you find a (friendly) guild which does social raiding, there should be plenty on your realm then you can step up to more challenging venues if you feel up to it

my previous guild was basically that. a few hundred Belgian and Dutch players who just played together and bantered. I chose to leave them because of 3 reasons:

1) the quality of raiders was mainly just awful.
2) they had just a 10 man raid and nothing else regular.
3) most of them didn't know the game even half as well as I did, and were just insultingly ignorant when I tried to explain it to them, AND then twisting the words I said to imply I was a bad player. Sorry, but I can't take arrogance well. Thinking you know the game better than someone who has invested 40 hours inside and outside the game per week for the past 5 years is just arrogant and ignorant.

[KCguy]

You just need to find a cool guild. There are many out there.

[Mefistophelis]

If you look for a guild I'm sure you'll find at least one that suits your needs .

[Rucati]

Your options are either start your own group, or join a raiding guild. The latter is probably a better option, just find a guild looking for a DPS and apply.

I could never imagine trying to PuG things anyway, at least on my realm, people are terrible.

[Deleted]

This has always been the case. If it wasn't gearscore it was iLevel. If not iLevel it was "link achieve". People whine about a lack of skilled players, but aren't willing to actually HELP other players get the skill that they demand.

Poor investment in most cases. You won't please many guildies when they learn they're ''carrying another newbie'' either.

[kamuimac]

1 thing - when ur looking for a guild - be rational - dont try to jump in to guild which is allready either 12/12 or x/13 HC unless u will be applying to their 2nd or 3rd raid team - start slowly liek eveyrone had started - look for a guild that is 3-4 bosses in normal and start there - it really dont surprise me u have such problems cause atm so many guilds have problem with summer atendance boss that there is ton of experienced geared raiders looking for a guild so a non experience not 530 itlv person can have really hard time . or maybe try to gear up os prot or holy and try to find a raid spot for that spec - should be easier then for dps :/

[Bizerk]

If you don't actively raid, why need the gear in the first place.

[icausewipes]

Try going Holy since everyone wants a healer over a dps.

[Nobleshield]

Poor investment in most cases. You won't please many guildies when they learn they're ''carrying another newbie'' either.

That wasn't my point... my point was that so many people (here especially) keep complaining about the lack of quality, but aren't willing to do anything to help alleviate it.

[Shakari]

Reading the OP, the "nothing but bad experiences from guilds" line really sticks out to me. OP, most guilds aren't like that. The fact that you've gotten into nothing but bad guilds makes me wonder if, maybe, part of the problem lies with you. I'm not saying that it does, I'm just musing on whether it might.

Either way, you're going to need a guild if you want to actively raid. Any decent pug will be hesitant to let inexperienced players in and rightly so.

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Did it never occur to you that there are many, MANY people out there that know the fights and don't need them explained? You're damned right that I have no patience teaching you the fight when myself and the other people in the raid already learned it long ago. Do you have any concept of how much time it takes to teach someone a fight that they've never done? Do you really expect those 9 other players to spend all that time on ONE person when they could simply pug an experienced player and be done with it?

You want to learn the fights? Join a guild, watch videos, or pay for an invite so you can try it first hand. Do not, however, come here bitching that you can't get into a pug because they don't want to waste their time teaching you. The only person feeling sorry for you on that one is yourself.

You're the one responsible for learning the fight. You do that by joining a guild. If you can't get into a guild, that's no one's problem but your own.

Yes I know very well what it take to teach someone I fight they have never done before, and having been doing that for 8 years of wow and am still doing it. Its not that hard but does require a little patience, its seems however you have no clue at all.

I've not come here bitching about anything mate, your the one doing that lol, could be I've touched a nerve I dunno and I can get in any pug I want to, and never have been unguilded so these assumptions you keep making ain't really very good. But like any normal player I have seen this vastly over inflated requirements for pugs and the demand you have killed everything and have xxxx gear before they will look at you dispite the fact you could easily clear it with half the exp and gear.

Also where did you get feeling sorry for myself lol I'm certainly not, and I'm certainly not sorry for you, if you choose to act selfish and arrogant thats your choice but at least be honest with yourself about it. Although I find it funny people like you have this memememe attitude's then bitch and whine about the "good old days" with pugs and the "comunity", when in reallity all your doing is playing a glorified single player game and not bothering with the comunity because you can't be arsed to help anyone but yourself, which destroys the community, so nice going I guess lol

And yes I do expect the 9 other players to help the 10th, thats what a multiplayer games are about after all. And after all this has been said your totally missing the point, how can some one get the experience of a kill if no one will let em join a group its a catch 22 situation.

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Why on earth would I teach people in a pug?

Also no, I never started pugging anything before I did the fights.
I raided with my guild and/or IRL friends, and then pugged some shit on alts after I had achievements.

You be surprised now little the instruction is needed, don't step in xxxx move out of yyy and kill zzz instructions don't have to be pages or a blow by blow guide lol
You'd be suprised how quickly people pick that up and its quite a measure of how good you actually are by how good your brief instructions are. It ain't hard, you meet new ppl and also find new ppl who are good to group with in future pugs.

[Absolucion]

Get into a guild.


But not any guild. Yes, some guilds are going to ask for EXP and whatnot, but as someone who`s been a Guild Master and Raid Leader for a casual guild and also raid on a Hardcore guild, I`ll give you some pointers on WHAT NOT TO DO.

First and foremost, look for a guild who`s starting progression or who`s getting there. Please oh please don`t apply for a guild with multiple heroic kills if you don`t have any exp, they will just ignore you or be very rude to you.

Second, get some logs. Run LFR, don`t tunnel the boss, don`t abuse the mechanics, avoid fire and get some really good damage going. Having good logs is very productive and will make your chances of getting into a raid guild much better.

Third, be patient. You may not get the perfect fit on the first try. Maybe you will find elitist players, jerks and whatnot. Just stay for a night and leave. Chances are you`ll get a few kills in the process.


Having no exp in my eyes equates to not even trying.

[Shakari]

That wasn't my point... my point was that so many people (here especially) keep complaining about the lack of quality, but aren't willing to do anything to help alleviate it.

Bingo hit the nail on the head, and people wonder why pugs are harder to find these days, running out of people who know everything already and can actually either need or be bothered to join a pug because of the attitude of those that run a lot of em.

[Bombino]

You can't expect PUGs to have an in-depth look as to what kind of player you are. I would do the same thing and look at your gear/gems/enchants and kills.

If you want someone to judge you more properly I suggest to get some logs and app to a guild that you might like.

[Glurp]

You'll never get into a pug run without experience so don't bother trying. Look for a guild that you can join and you'll have better luck. If you are actually willing to put in effort and try to progress you should be able to find your way into a guild that is at least clearing Normal mode. If you don't have the time available to join a guild then I don't know what to say, maybe WoW isn't the best game for you.

[Deja Thoris]

3) most of them didn't know the game even half as well as I did, and were just insultingly ignorant when I tried to explain it to them, AND then twisting the words I said to imply I was a bad player. Sorry, but I can't take arrogance well. Thinking you know the game better than someone who has invested 40 hours inside and outside the game per week for the past 5 years is just arrogant and ignorant.

You should invest some of that time into making friends with like minded people at the same skill level as you. That's the key to accessing the content you want to see. If pugs don't set standards its not fair on the 9 other people that do know the fight is it?

[alturic]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Nzall/advanced

I'm at wits end. I can get nothing from LFR except a belt and 4P T15. I can get minor upgrades from heroic caches for some slots. but every time I try to join a normal ToT raid pug from trade, I get a reply in the vein of "sorry, you don't have any kills" or "looking for someone with more exp". And that's if they don't simply demand AotC right away, even for a non-lei shen pug. They check armory, so I cannot fake my achievement.

I could bribe someone, but that would take quite abit of time. I could join a guild, but I have nothing but bad experiences from guilds, either from malicious guild masters or from ignorant and dumb guildies. and even if I can find a decent guild, they ALSO ASK EXP...

It's a vicious circle: I can't get EXP because I don't have any EXP.

I'm sure it's been said in the thread, but your "solution" is in your example replies. Get more experience in those raids. That does mean playing with others in a guild. I can almost guarantee the pugs denying you because of no kills are not the pugs you'd want to be in. While I normally don't take anyone with at least SOME experience in the raid (LFR doesn't count) in a pug I formed, I would take someone without experience who's gemmed/forged properly over someone with experience and doesn't have correct gemming/forging. Don't expect to get a ton of progress though for pugs who don't require experience. It's just the nature of the beast.

The ironic thing, most of the time the people who form a pug don't have kills themselves.