"you don't have any kills, sorry"... always hiding behind that same lame excuse

[Garehn Vi-Brittania]

Sorry if it offends you but the fact that lfr items are upgraded and that you have no real raid exp. i wouldn't take you either. (LFR does not count as raiding). Find a guild who is around 4/12 and tell them that youve done lfr and know the fights to some extent. if youre looking for a 12/12 guild then sorry thats not going to happen

[Khorm]

People have wiped for hours on certain bosses, they've earned the right to pug with others who have done the same and not go through the whole process again with someone who wants to skip the line.

[Deleted]

Do you own pug and make your own rules. If I were to do a pug, I'd ask for it too because I wouldn't want to spend half the time explaining the fights. If you wanna do progression raiding (so.. learning the fights), join a guild.

I don't do pugs anymore, I always go in guild, but from memory, if you wipe twice, people suddenly forgot they had stuff to do and leave, so you have to pick the best team you can get otherwise you'll spend half your time in trade chat.

so he makes a pug and asks for something he doesn't have, how many people will stay in the group ?

[Seezer]

biggest issue i see here is your attitude, change that and i doubt you have any issue's finding a guild that suits you.

This. There is this common misconception that it's the hardcores that are the assholes in the game. And that just isn't true anymore. It's the people that are jaded with life in general, don't stick up for themselves irl, that use the game and the safety of the internet to let out all of the things they can't get out irl. And that's fine. Whatever.

But threads like this are so transparent. The OP wants to shine the spotlight on a group of ppl he doesn't like. And he knows that people gobble that shit up. You throw something like someone being "an elitist" to the pups on a forum and they'll kill each other to take a bite. But most of the time, all of these ppl with problems in the game, the problems are cause by themselves. Being an asshole isn't determined by your skill or progress. It's determined by how much you attack other groups of players in the game. And if you call yourself a casual and bash people that play hardcore, you're just as bad as they are. And vice versa.

[Deleted]

Find alt-raids.

[Durandro]

biggest issue i see here is your attitude, change that and i doubt you have any issue's finding a guild that suits you.

I disagree. The community has a real attitude problem, with people only being accepted into runs if they have better then required gear.

As for guilds, I got lucky getting a position in a guild with 503 ilevel with no ToT normal experience. They freely admitted my gear was substandard, but took me because I impressed in the guild application. Luckily I'm pulling my weight so I suspect they'll keep me on.

But every other guild? Not enough gear. How do I get gear? ToT normal. PUG's wouldn't take me. So how do you get the gear? Unless you're in the first wave of raiders, or play a vital role (usually healer) then good luck getting in a bit late.

[Daedelus]

I don't organise PUGs but if I did, I'd be more interested in people with properly gemmed, enchanted and reforged gear than high-level gear.

[TrollShaman]

I attempt raids in Barthilas Horde. Fortunately sometimes the people there are forgiving and trusts me that I can do my job and listen to the leader properly... in T14 content that is. I've yet to see any LFM ToT PuG that doesn't ask for exp.
I play in a raiding guild as well but my only chances at entering any of their raids is during alt runs, which they don't do much anymore.
Overall I find it sad that skill and to an extent ilvl is completely dismissed if you don't have the experience/kills. Forgiving guildmates or even pugs seem to be the only way to get any remote chance in entering current-tier raids.

[Khazaad]

Have in mind that most people forming a pug are eather:

a) Alts of raiding mains
or
b) Raiding mains that passed the spot that week.

Now, with that in mind, what's so hard to understand?

I, for example, spent good amount of hours wiping on bosses during first weeks of progression.
Today, if i want to do ToT on my alt i want to do it for gear, and i want it to be clean and fast run. Wiping on Jin'rokh for hour because someone cant kite focused lightning out of puddle, and then calling it quits on Horridon is not my idea of fun at this phase of patch where I'm just focussing on getting my characters fine tuned for next patch progression.

If you want to get some experience, kills, achievements and gear, form your own pug of likeminded individuals and do the progression path yourself. I did it months ago, and have no interest in doing so again with a group of randoms, regardless of their skill. If you don't want to form a pug of non-experienced people yourself, than you're in fact asking for yourself to be boosted by experienced people, and if that's the case then this thread is nothing but hypocrisy at it's best.

You can call my attitude ''elitism'' if you want, but in truth it's nothing more than a pragmatism.

[Feleigh]

It sucks, yes, but you have to understand where the RL is coming from in this situation. There are too many people out there with no exp to show who will claim to know what they are doing, then immediately proceed to fail miserably at executing even the simple things. If you don't have anything to show that you can be a competent raider, then a RL has no reason to risk wasting their time on you.

[kindar]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...tomatic/simple

530 ilvl, 0 boss kills this tier. Only two kills in the tier before, and that was only because my guild at the time really needed someone to fill in a slot while they waited on someone to log in.

I got burnt out on raiding at the end of DS, so this whole expansion I've just been doing other stuff when I'm online. I've still worked on gear progression as much as I could without raiding, and I think 530 without ever setting foot in normal ToT is pretty respectable.

Here lately I've had a little more free time, and ToT is a neat raid that I'd like to get better acquainted with rather than doing it in faceroll mode, so I've been trying to get into raids when I can.

Yet even with 530 ilvl, I've been declined invites to groups that were advertising alt runs that were maybe aiming to go 6/12. Nevermind the fact that I grossly outgear the tier, or that I've done plenty of heroic raiding content in prior expansions, or that I have nearly 18k achieve points (which doesn't say anything about skill really, but it at least shows that I play a lot). No, all they see is I haven't even killed Jin'rohk on normal so I must be mentally handicapped.

It just bugs me that there's a very vocal group of "experienced" raiders that talk shit about the lollfrcasuals for the fact that LFR people don't seem to be interested in bettering themselves. Yet when those LFR players want to try to take that next step, no one will let them try because they have zero prior kills. Ugh.

[Thelxi]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Nzall/advanced

I'm at wits end. I can get nothing from LFR except a belt and 4P T15. I can get minor upgrades from heroic caches for some slots. but every time I try to join a normal ToT raid pug from trade, I get a reply in the vein of "sorry, you don't have any kills" or "looking for someone with more exp". And that's if they don't simply demand AotC right away, even for a non-lei shen pug. They check armory, so I cannot fake my achievement.

I could bribe someone, but that would take quite abit of time. I could join a guild, but I have nothing but bad experiences from guilds, either from malicious guild masters or from ignorant and dumb guildies. and even if I can find a decent guild, they ALSO ASK EXP...

It's a vicious circle: I can't get EXP because I don't have any EXP.

You are missing a lot of valor gear. That is the first thing I would notice when I armory you.

[Deleted]

I am on Kazzak and usually run alt pugs once a week. I don't have enough posts, so I can't send you a PM, but feel free to send me one with your battlenet ID, and we can see if we can figure something out.

Looking at your armory; you put more effort into your gear than many of the people who want to join and the fights aren't really mechanically complex.

[Deleted]

You are missing a lot of valor gear. That is the first thing I would notice when I armory you.

that's because the valor gear is not that good for ret, actually. it might be higher itemlevel, but if I can get a 502 or even a 516 with haste, it's better than a 522 w/o haste.

I have stamina gems because the only other option is hit gems. I can drop my cloak reforge, but it would basically put me 40 rating below cap or 20 rating above cap.

I've upgraded LFR gear because they're trinkets and that was the best use for my VP at the time. I couldn't get better trinkets at the time.

- - - Updated - - -

I am on Kazzak and usually run alt pugs once a week. I don't have enough posts, so I can't send you a PM, but feel free to send me one with your battlenet ID, and we can see if we can figure something out.

Looking at your armory; you put more effort into your gear than many of the people who want to join and the fights aren't really mechanically complex.

I'll send you my Battletag when I'm home, I don't know the number for sure.

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

Pretty much BS. It's extremely easy to provide logs. I've gotten apps of complete garbage players who got semi-carried through heroics and think that they can just app to a similarly progressed guild after they've been kicked for being shit. They don't get in. On the other hand, I've reviewed apps of returning players who give LFR or normal logs, from which I can tell that they deserve a shot (even if they don't make it).

If you can't get in a guild you think you should be able to get into, it's probably because you're bad and don't realize it, so you're overreaching. I'm sorry if you think you're good, but you're not.

[Deleted]

Start your own pug. People who join pugs don't usually check gearscore, achi and ilvl etc. So you can go unnoticed.

In ICC times I was called DarthThräll (With the funny ä) I was asked to link light of dawn for a 25 man heroic pug so I just said 'go armory darththrall' Who was a heroic raider on my realm, they did and I got an invite.

To this day I always use DarthThralls armory to get myself into pugs if I don't have the achi etc.

[Kreeshak]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Nzall/advanced

I'm at wits end. I can get nothing from LFR except a belt and 4P T15. I can get minor upgrades from heroic caches for some slots. but every time I try to join a normal ToT raid pug from trade, I get a reply in the vein of "sorry, you don't have any kills" or "looking for someone with more exp". And that's if they don't simply demand AotC right away, even for a non-lei shen pug. They check armory, so I cannot fake my achievement.

I could bribe someone, but that would take quite abit of time. I could join a guild, but I have nothing but bad experiences from guilds, either from malicious guild masters or from ignorant and dumb guildies. and even if I can find a decent guild, they ALSO ASK EXP...

It's a vicious circle: I can't get EXP because I don't have any EXP.

I fully support you. I've seen honorable raiders by the community's standards that fail horribly. I've seen experienced raiders alts that also fail.
I will however agree with whoever said that logs don't lie.

[Lukazor]

I'd say you want to be looking for a guild around the 3/12 mark, that should get you enough experience to then join a more progressed guild if you then want to.

My guild is 6/12 on normal and have just recruited a few new players, one being a balance/resto druid who has around the 490 ilvl mark and only had LFR experience. He came across like a really nice guy, said he was willing to learn and put the effort in, he came on our mumble server and was really chatty. So I decided to take him along to our ToT run last night (one of our DPS offered to sit out to test him) and we 1 shot the first 5 bosses. After the raid he apologized for his low dps but followed the tactics SPOT ON - The DPS will come with gear but he clearly knows how to play the game.

There are guilds out there that will take you (like my guild) so just keep looking and you will find one eventually

[Thelxi]

that's because the valor gear is not that good for ret, actually. it might be higher itemlevel, but if I can get a 502 or even a 516 with haste, it's better than a 522 w/o haste.

I have stamina gems because the only other option is hit gems. I can drop my cloak reforge, but it would basically put me 40 rating below cap or 20 rating above cap.

I've upgraded LFR gear because they're trinkets and that was the best use for my VP at the time. I couldn't get better trinkets at the time.

- - - Updated - - -



I'll send you my Battletag when I'm home, I don't know the number for sure.

You really think your 489 belt is better than the 522 valor one? I don't think so and neither would most other people.

My whole point is that your armory does not look like you are trying very hard and that is what recruiters notice. Just letting you know.

[Deleted]

You really think your 489 belt is better than the 522 valor one? I don't think so and neither would most other people.

My whole point is that your armory does not look like you are trying very hard and that is what recruiters notice. Just letting you know.

I'm not thinking that 489 is better than 522, I know that 502 belt from Jin-Rokh is better than 522 valor belt, because Revvo on the paladin forums explicitly said that. and that's what I'm trying to get. the 1750 VP from the 522 belt is better saved for upgrades down the line.