Destro Buff 5.4 (Rain of fire Compensation)

[Sarange]

PvP exists, and double-instant-chaos bolt would be both hilarious and wrong.

Actually in the current state of chaos bolt, it wouldnt even be game breaking. Very strong, but without dark soul and/or other buffs...meh
Looking at ele shamans, it wouldnt be op

[sugarfree]

PvP exists, and double-instant-chaos bolt would be both hilarious and wrong.

You're lucky enough you haven't met an Ele Shaman who can do this level of burst with instants - more if he gets lucky with random mastery procs AND/OR if he has echo of the elements. They hurt. A lot. But that's the price for luck. They do get instants, but they all rely on lucky and random procs, which should balance things out a bit. I would say instant CB for each 3 stacks, but stacks will have an internal cooldown of like 3 seconds then extend Backdraft buff to about 15 seconds - buff resets when you gain another charge. This makes it not too short and at the same time, gives the lock a choice whether to stack up for a CB or 3 faster Incinerates.

I actually find this very interesting.

And on a PvE note, I'd suggest a Glyph of Backlash where instead of getting hit, maybe in successful damage done to the boss.

[icecoldsir]

To everyone saying instant chaos bolt at 3 stacks of backdraft: It's fairly easy to sit at 6 stacks at backdraft, popping your cooldowns, trowing out 2 instant chaos bolts that crit for 100k+, a conflagrate and another instant chaos bolt that will crit for 100k+.
Being able to do 400k+ damage in so little time with only instants is stupidly overpowered. Heck, with some cc on the healer or some extra damage from your partner, your target is likely low enough to shadowburn.

While I agree being able to do that much damage in 3 globals would be slightly OP, most classes in MoP can do that much in around the same amount of globals. Hunters with stampede+CD's, Ret with wings, Mage with Deep/Alter time/Orb, Enhance and ele with ascendence and various other classes. Demo and destro both NEED to be capable of competing with these classes burst wise with the current state of the game. Otherwise their is really no speccing anything other then affliction (which is already is a poor state vs cleaves).

So while Chaos bolt instant procs might be a little over the top I think something along the lines of lowering the Cast time of chaos bolt by 1 second and baking more ember regen into incin/Immolate or something along those lines.

[Deleted]

Chaos bolt doesnt have a CD^

Im sure you meant something else so just pointing out so you can edit.

[icecoldsir]

Haha yeah meant cast time, thanks for pointing that out. =P

[Deleted]

I just want the haste scaling fixed, change backdraft or something. It will be even worse without Rain being used for single target, since Rain actually scaled ok with haste...

[Grizelda]

Increase Incinerate cast time and damage so that it can hold more haste.

Immolate should award an ember every tick. Double on crit.

Haste should decrease Conflagrates CD.


It kills me that we lose RoF because people had trouble with a targeting reticule. Then come back and say that the rotation is too easy.

[Deleted]

I fear that Blizzard vastly underestimates the impact of (MF) RoF in spread aoe/cleave. This is basically the only thing with Shadowburn that prevents Destro from being non-viable currently compared to Demo & Aff in ToT. Even with the awesome ember generation it gives on some fights (like Council) it can't really compete with them.

[Deleted]

(pvp wise)
I would like to see a cast time reduction for chaos bolt to maybe 2 secs (like incinerate). Even my enhancement shaman can crit more than my locks chaos bolt so we atleast need a cast time reduction since all those melees can do the same damage as in instant cast anyways (dragon roar, obliterate,..)+ endless interupts/ spell reflects.
(it's fun casting a 3 second chaos bolt with large travel time and then having a warrior reflect it while it's flying in the air for 0.5 seconds already)

Conflagrate would make it a 1 second cast tho.. people will just build up embers, pop cds and kill the target in 3-5 seconds. so maybe a little cooldown of 3 seconds or something on chaos bolt would be neccesary.

[Deleted]

I fear that Blizzard vastly underestimates the impact of (MF) RoF in spread aoe/cleave. This is basically the only thing with Shadowburn that prevents Destro from being non-viable currently compared to Demo & Aff in ToT. Even with the awesome ember generation it gives on some fights (like Council) it can't really compete with them.

For me the niche of Destro in Tot was huge on demand burst damage and monstrous spread or aoe cleave, i was happy to take a single target dps loss because of this because we could make it up with good play, the problem we are going to run into during this ptr cycle is the day blizzard notices exactly how much we relied on that, the real problem for me though isint Rof its not having mannoroth's effecting fire and brimstone, quite simply because as strong as Rof was we can keep strong ember regen with high crit ratings without it.

[sugarfree]

I'm sure you guys remember when GC said that nerfing ROF will nerf Ember regen which they don't intend to nerf? Because you know that ember regen is being looked at this point.

And numbers wise, I'd really not worry about it at this period of the PTR. But here's hoping they'd buff Chaos Bolt to warrant its cast time in PvP, or PvE for that matter. In PvP, it just doesn't hit that much anymore, especially with the big nerf to mobility.

[Vulkrum]

So while Chaos bolt instant procs might be a little over the top I think something along the lines of lowering the Cast time of chaos bolt by 1 second and baking more ember regen into incin/Immolate or something along those lines.

This is something I can get behind and it wouldnt be OP.

[Werst]

The extent to which destro rode the coat tails of near endless embers on many ToT fights can't be emphasized enough. I'm not saying changing RoF and/or MF shouldn't happen...they would before destro can be tweaked properly single target. However without those crutches devs need to be prepared to buff destro significantly. Probably to a level that is more that what most are comfortable with at a glance.

The PVP issues are there and again we are going to need some significant buffs to offset things. Destro being binary on chaosbolt is sort of where we are at in terms of mechanics. If destro has a cap on it for how hard chaosbolt can hit (eg the nerfs both in the past and recently) then it needs to be easier/more reliable to use when focused and more frequent. The double instant CB thing is still 4-5 GCD's which when compared to what over half the classes out there can dish in the same time period is only keeping up with par. Look at the math around what those other classes can do and especially how hard it is to prevent compared to the CB change and its pretty clear destro needs major help on the magnitude of the instant CB at 3x backdraft kind of level. The MF/RoF changes should significantly tone down destro in rbgs so that card doesn't play.

PVE balancing around ideal trinkets and 4pc is a bad move. Especially for 10m guilds that are so easily screwed over by loot RNG (I raid 25m btw). All it ends up doing is being "balanced" at bis once progression is done and you are just parse/loot farming. It means things are underpowered when it really matters and are a constant balance headache. I think destro needs a 30% emberbit generation gain for all ember generating single target spells as a first step. Then its nukes are going to have to be given coef closer to arcane. Spicing up the rotation is a mixed bag but no matter what your opinion on the matter a rotation with few damage sources really doesn't have as many options for being buffed. Definitely have to pull haste buff off backdraft. 30% damage or crit are both options, especially if we get conflag recharge time reduced by haste dynamically.

Instant chaosbolts at 3x backdraft in pve are an interesting choice in that you trade burst for sustained. Good players know when to make that trade and new players don't so its a way to introduce complexity/choice making with an otherwise very simple rotation. You could also put fel flame into the rotation somehow....perhaps being used when there are no backdraft charges on a mana negative rotation...then reverting to the current rotation to be mana positive? Also they are probably going to have to include F&B spells into MF to keep destro in the game AoE wise.

[forsworn]

PvP exists, and double-instant-chaos bolt would be both hilarious and wrong.

Yea but tripple Lava burst is fine? Besides chaos bolt hits nothing now.

[Ragefreak]

Besides chaos bolt hits nothing now.

This is my alt char on ptr with new 4x tier and 2x trinket.
http://i.imgur.com/6tP1FJ9.jpg

[Werst]

The multi lavaburst/fulmination/etc from an ele dwarfs CB...even 2x instant with 2x conflags.
MM hunters dumping a powershot > aimed proc > chimera (plus zoo/etc) again makes 2x chaosbolts seem kinda meh.
Frostmage shatter combos again dwarf even double instant CB.
Firemage 3x-4x instant autocrit pyros + combust/etc again makes double CB look pretty soft.
DK dumping oblits/frost strikes in a pillar+trinket....again easily matches CBx2.
Enh sham going ham w' ascendance vs CBx2?
BM lolzoo/kill command/etc vs CBx2?
Rogue dance w' CD's vs CBx2?

Look at any of those and compare how hard they are to stop vs the live version of a 3 sec base cast time. ALL of them hit harder than chaosbolt and do so instantly or with uninterruptable + instants. 100% of hunter damage is uninterruptable, instant, and mobile working at range....their track record in pvp this expansion is second to none. Compare that to lock representation this expansion and its fair to say we have room for improvement. Post 5.3 nerf to CB vs player targets its such a weak hitting spell especially outside of cooldowns that you just don't see any pressure from it. Even 2x of them instantly isn't going to be burst out of line compared to what other "burst" specs are doing in game and for quite some time.

Either you neuter and rebalance over half the specs in the game down to destro's level of "burst" and especially how useable that burst is or you give destro more equal footing in terms of being able to use its damage in pvp. If CB is softcapped based on subjective levels of how hard its allowed to hit we need to be able to use it reliably when tunneled and more frequently. The super big CB's are bad for the game. They suck to get hit by and they are super frustrating to try to use. Its just not fun for lock nor victim. Take the logic/direction one notch further....a 4-5 sec spell that 1 shot. Would that be fun to try to use or get hit by?

[Deleted]

This is my alt char on ptr with new 4x tier and 2x trinket.
http://i.imgur.com/6tP1FJ9.jpg

Reading the thread before posting would be an idea

[luckydevours]

How can you be so obsessed about instant Chaos Bolts? Its not going to happen for good reasons. So can we please return to realistic approaches on how to compensate destro?

I myself think there is room for damage buffs to both Immolate and Incinerate, but in return FnB might need a little reduction to limit AoE capacities.

[Deleted]

-CB scales with mastery
-Conflagrate cd is affected by haste
-Immolate ticks generate always burning embers on tick, double if crit
-Incinerate damage increased by 10%
-Shadowburn should always crit

Not big deal, no PvP combo destroyer little buff to destro to make it "competitive"

[Deleted]

The one thing people seem to be very willing to accept is a buff to immolate which is nice because to me it is definetly the easiest place to start, i hope blizzard agree.