Is the USA a declining country?

[sandmoth12]

Our economy is down, the value of our dollar is down, unemployment is high, and our education rates are close to that of a third world country. Personally, I think that the US is in decline.

[Spectral]

Our economy is down,

No, it's not.

the value of our dollar is down,

No, it's not.

unemployment is high,

Yeah, that could use some fixing. Historical precent suggests this is temporary.

and our education rates are close to that of a third world country.

We're the fourth most educated country in the world (source).

Personally, I think that the US is in decline.

Given your track record, this makes me optimistic.

[Mercadi]

Look at the bright side. Gay marriages are about to become legal everywhere, drugs are about to become perfectly legal, and everyone's gonna get a freebie health insurance.

[Evelyn]

[Velaniz]

Hey surely Hollywood counts for some kind of saving grace.

[Radux]

our education rates are close to that of a third world country.

Would you mind linking your source for this statement? I'm legitimately curious.

The lowest rank for US education, that I found at quick google search (mathematics), in the entire world was 24th. Given that the US recognizes 195 other nations across the world, that would still make us in the top 12% for our worst subject. All other sources I found at quick glance over google had those results as higher.

[Rukentuts]

Yeah, that could use some fixing. Historical precent suggests this is temporary.

But even compared to the rest of the world it's not that bad.

[Twotonsteak]

No, it's not.



No, it's not.



Yeah, that could use some fixing. Historical precent suggests this is temporary.



We're the fourth most educated country in the world (source).



Given your track record, this makes me optimistic.

The economy IS down. The Market is thriving only because the feds are pumping money in, artificially inflating it. This is evident by the sensitivity shown by the Stock Market every time investors think the feds are going to stop pumping in money.

Real Unemployment is currently around 14%. Temporary or not, that IS high.

According to the Huffington Post the US ranks 17th for education. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2199795.html) That's an average that has held for the last three years as a story from USA Today, in 2010, ranked us 14th in reading, 17th in science and 25th in math. Most studies still agree that we rank in the 20's when it comes to subjects like math and science.

Not exactly "third world," but not stunning or "fourth" either.

EDIT:

A bit of personal experience with our public education.

I graduated from High School in 1996. At that time the following was true about the education I received.

History: Was distinctly slanted in favor of the US and we learned NOTHING post WW2. Apparently Korea, Vietnam, the Cold War, and any number of other (major) events simply weren't worth teaching us about.

English: The only complaint I have is that this was NOT challenging. However it wasn't really lacking either.

Math: I'm not exaggerating when I say that we had no math classes after tenth grade. We were never taught things like Algebra. And to attend even a community college would have required two semesters of "make-up" courses just to reach an entry level in math.

Science: See math.

[Spectral]

The economy IS down. The Market is thriving only because the feds are pumping money in, artificially inflating it. This is evident by the sensitivity shown by the Stock Market every time investors think the feds are going to stop pumping in money.

This is a reason that the economy isn't down, not a reason that it is down.

Real Unemployment is currently around 14%. Temporary or not, that IS high.

There is no such thing as "real unemployment". There are multiple measures of labor utilization. None of them is more "real" than the others.

According to the Huffington Post the US ranks 17th for education. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2199795.html) That's an average that has held for the last three years as a story from USA Today, in 2010, ranked us 14th in reading, 17th in science and 25th in math. Most studies still agree that we rank in the 20's when it comes to subjects like math and science.

Not exactly "third world," but not stunning or "fourth" either.

I do not value standardized tests taken by teenagers over actual end outcomes. The United States has the fourth highest rate of college educated individuals in the world. That's vastly more relevant to an economy than whether 13 year old kids have strong math skills.

[Grummgug]

It depends upon your point of view. You could say America is declining relative to China. You could also say both China and America are growing relative to the world in general, but that China is growing faster than America. Both would be right. It just depends on what matters to you.

[Samurai]

The intro speech that set up The Newsroom sums it up well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eec6EJHVzc4

[Rukentuts]

This is a reason that the economy isn't down, not a reason that it is down.

GDP is going back up so I don't know how anyone can argue the economy is down.

[Grummgug]

I would DEFINITELY say that the point where America goes into decline is when a foreign power establishes / shares a military base on US soil, particularly in the lower 48. The day foreign troops are stationed in, say, the state of Georgia, that's a sign of true decline. That's a sign of becoming a colony.

For example, the UK had American troops set up bases during WWII. And they never left. That was a sign the UK was in true decline.

Here is a list of bases in England where American troops are garrisoned:

RAF Alconbury, Cambridgeshire
RAF Croughton, Northamptonshire
RAF Lakenheath, Brandon, Suffolk [2]
RAF Menwith Hill, Yorkshire Dales
RAF Mildenhall, Mildenhall [3]

This sort of crap doesn't happen to a true world power. When foreigners control (oh excuse me "share") 5 bases in your country, and you are a tiny little island, and its peacetime, you no longer matter.

This would be like if China garrisoned troops in Atlanta, Denver, Albuquerque, Portland, and Providence. The day that happens, America doesn't matter anymore.

[Twotonsteak]

This is a reason that the economy isn't down, not a reason that it is down.



There is no such thing as "real unemployment". There are multiple measures of labor utilization. None of them is more "real" than the others.



I do not value standardized tests taken by teenagers over actual end outcomes. The United States has the fourth highest rate of college educated individuals in the world. That's vastly more relevant to an economy than whether 13 year old kids have strong math skills.

The U6 is commonly referred to as the "real unemployment" rate as it factors in numbers from many of the lesser known reports.

"The U6 unemployment rate counts not only people without work seeking full-time employment (the more familiar U-3 rate), but also counts "marginally attached workers and those working part-time for economic reasons." Note that some of these part-time workers counted as employed by U-3 could be working as little as an hour a week. And the "marginally attached workers" include those who have gotten discouraged and stopped looking, but still want to work. The age considered for this calculation is 16 years and over"

So you don't value the testing used to compare our students to those of other countries, but you still want to compare graduation rates? Honestly it doesn't mean squat how many we graduate if they can't compete in the global market. (And apparently they aren't.) That's the point of the testing.

[Kalyyn]

Given your track record, this makes me optimistic.

Indeed. If sandmoth thinks we're in a decline, this will be an American planet by 2030.

[Spectral]

"The U6 unemployment rate counts not only people without work seeking full-time employment (the more familiar U-3 rate), but also counts "marginally attached workers and those working part-time for economic reasons." Note that some of these part-time workers counted as employed by U-3 could be working as little as an hour a week. And the "marginally attached workers" include those who have gotten discouraged and stopped looking, but still want to work. The age considered for this calculation is 16 years and over"

Thanks for quoting something I'm thoroughly familiar with. There's still no such thing as "real unemployment rate". The term was fabricated in an attempt to make the BLS look deceitful.

So you don't value the testing used to compare our students to those of other countries, but you still want to compare graduation rates? Honestly it doesn't mean squat how many we graduate if they can't compete in the global market. (And apparently they aren't.)

No, I don't value standardized tests taken by 13 year olds very much. Yes, I value people getting college-level education. This seems like a straightforward position. You can disagree with it, but understand that you're not arguing that the United States ranks 17th in "education", you're saying that it ranks 17th in educating 13 year olds to do well on an international standardized test.

[Templar 331]

This would be like if China garrisoned troops in Atlanta, Denver, Albuquerque, Portland, and Providence. The day that happens, America doesn't matter anymore.

Part of me really wants to see the shit storm that will cause down here.

Is the U.S. a declining country? No. We took a hit. But we're still going and getting stronger.

[lawow74]

I think it's less about us declining and more about us not being able to stay ahead as much as we used to. Other countries are pushing hard to catch up and overtake us, China being one of the most obvious. I do think the day will come, maybe not this generation but in the next, where America ceases to be the dominant superpower. It will remain a superpower, but not the superpower.

[Metallikiddd]

the rich asshole ceo's, vp's, share holders, board members, bankers, politicians, etc. they ruined the economy and need to die for it. take all their money and put it into health care, ss, job training, education, etc. make sure the middle class doesn't get screwed over again. oh and if people still cant get work have a larger pool for unemployment.

[Spectral]

the rich asshole ceo's, vp's, share holders, board members, bankers, politicians, etc. they ruined the economy and need to die for it. take all their money and put it into health care, ss, job training, education, etc. make sure the middle class doesn't get screwed over again. oh and if people still cant get work have a larger pool for unemployment.

Here's a tale of a country that followed the policy you advocate.