Wow testing in-game payments

[MoanaLisa]

Look, I don't like the idea of Pay to Win any more than you do. I think it is a terrible idea. I just don't see this as Pay to Win.

It does need to be pointed out again and again--for whatever good it does--that like many things Pay2Win has different definitions and is pretty much a personal and subjective thing. For me the only thing that is clearly Pay2Win with no questions about it is 'best gear in the game and only available in a cash shop'. Everything below that is pretty negotiable. Even really with gear. Previous tier LFR gear? What do you really win except a better position to catch up to everyone else? Some will see that as P2W, others won't.

[Deleted]

I thought we pay for server access and Blizzard however knows that to keep ppl subbed they better deliver patches on top of that.

Funny you should mention server access in the same breath as increased costs, since server costs are one of the main things that's gotten infinitely cheaper over the years. (and is one of the things allowing the proliferation of rich client F2P titles as well)

[Dadwen]

I realise this. But the same principles apply.

cfor some it's earning as much gold as they can,

Pretty hard to define "winning" here. Even if you can create a scenario in which someone believes they are "winning" the gold game based on things they have bought from the store, I am not sure how that negatively affects anyone else playing the game.



Again, same argument as above. Who exactly are you "beating" by levelling all your toons faster by paying for it. You are playing against yourself surely? I don't see how this harms other players, or compels anyone who doesn't want to spend the money on this to do so.



I have already proven that these store items don't give any advantage to either of these activities.



Actually, until you are level capped it makes no difference. You aren't "winning" anything. And as long as they prohibit the use of the level boost during the first week, all those playing to be the best on the server won't get any advantage from it at all, because by the time it becomes available they will be level capped anyway, and won't have any use for it.

You can't argue that a lowbie on a PvP server is at a disadvantage because of this either. It may make the life of some other players easier (because they get to spend less time getting ganked because they get to level 90 faster), but it won't make your life harder. If you're level 25 in a zone, people who level faster than you will leave the zone sooner. It's not as if you are stuck with some guy who rolled his toon at the same time as you, even though he is 20 levels above you. On a pvp server there will always be the possibility of a higher level toon coming and ganking you.



Look, I don't like the idea of Pay to Win any more than you do. I think it is a terrible idea. I just don't see this as Pay to Win.

have not seen you proven anything (even your PVP statement seems flawed, if people are paying for a easier time seems like winning to me, less time being gawked and sooner to getting to gawk), also by leveling all those alts faster is a major advantage, I have several alts and it makes farming mats cake, and it's tons easier having all kind of toons with different professions (a lot easier to level at max one shot any node guarding mobs and flying FTW) which can give a major edge in the AH. - leveling alt faster does equal more gold faster in the end.

[Raelbo]

And you think that competes with the income from sitting in trade chat watching for deals on ore and playing the ah?

Not at all. You haven't really been following what I have been saying have you?

The question is: Does the ability to buy lesser charms help someone to win? I don't see how buying a bunch of lesser charms so that you can spend 24 hours a day watching the AH really helps you to "win" anything.

I mean you are talking hundreds of gold when i'm talking thousands of gold.

I was actually talking about hundreds of Lesser Charms of Good Fortune...

[makominami]

NO NO NO and a thousand times no, Im fine with selling in game pets and mounts that are sold outside the game. I do not like the concept of them in the first place because it promotes "look what I have because I have extra money to spend" True they are cosmetic but the point is still valid. As for experience buff or charms that directly influence a player character , HELL NO! . This is a very dangerous and slippery slope that I fear will degrade wow into what DDO is or any of the pacific entertainment F2p games are. Oh look you want to respec $6 oh look you want the the best companion $20 oh look you want access to this area $3. Please blizzard reconsider this, doubt they will but *crosses fingers*

[mistahwilshire]

So Blizzard came right out with it and said it was for Asia (at least for the time being).

Totally called that. Can't believe anyone thought different. This sort of thing fits their model perfectly and doesn't fit the NA/EU model in its current state at all.

[Dadwen]

Not at all. You haven't really been following what I have been saying have you?

The question is: Does the ability to buy lesser charms help someone to win? I don't see how buying a bunch of lesser charms so that you can spend 24 hours a day watching the AH really helps you to "win" anything.

Personally I'd say yes, but it all depends on what you are trying to win. get tons of gold playing the AH and still the Extra chances at gear or at the least extra gold in raid.

[JudgePayne]

The fact remains that this feature is going live in Some of the asian servers and hopefully Blizzard will decide to roll it out on to the EU and US servers also.

From the feedback the people in favour of the feature are in the majority and the people against are in the minority.

[Syio]

On the other MMO subforums people always are arrogantly claiming how they don't want to play F2P MMOs, because they are Pay2Win MMOs.

I wonder how they're going to feel about paying a subscription for a Pay2Win MMO instead.

Simple: I will feel betrayed. And I will react by moving on from WoW for good if this is the way they're going to conduct their business.

[Dadwen]

So Blizzard came right out with it and said it was for Asia (at least for the time being).

Totally called that. Can't believe anyone thought different. This sort of thing fits their model perfectly and doesn't fit the NA/EU model in its current state at all.

personally I not as concerned what they do there, seems they already do some shady stuff and it's a lost cause, (internet cafe buff?? really) it's the OUTSET part of the (in Asian regions, at the outset) Bashiok quote that has me worried.

[ScottsdaleHokie]

I'm going to laugh my ass off when it comes to the US/EU realms in 6.0. Just in time to level to 95 or 100, what a coincidence.

[steroidz]

The fact remains that this feature is going live in Some of the asian servers and hopefully Blizzard will decide to roll it out on to the EU and US servers also.

From the feedback the people in favour of the feature are in the majority and the people against are in the minority.

What feedback are you referring too? This thread? Hardly a proper sample for what would be the largest change WoW would undergo.

[Dadwen]

The fact remains that this feature is going live in Some of the asian servers and hopefully Blizzard will decide to roll it out on to the EU and US servers also.

From the feedback the people in favour of the feature are in the majority and the people against are in the minority.

Hmm from what I've seen between here the US forums and EU blizzard forums it seems to be the majority are against it (seemed a little more undecided before the charms where kicked it and it was just the XP buff)

[Sephius]

How is this pay to win? no one cares about leveling and if you say "well i do" you are like 4% of the player base.

I have 3800 Lesser charms, how are people saying this is pay to win???? I have 3800 JUST from doing my normal routine. I do not go out to farm them.

Anyone who makes slippery slope argument in life is just plain uneducated

[Doylez]

For me the only thing that is clearly Pay2Win with no questions about it is 'best gear in the game and only available in a cash shop'.
Previous tier LFR gear? What do you really win except a better position to catch up to everyone else? Some will see that as P2W, others won't.

Why just previous tier LFR gear? Why not complete heroic tier equipment sets of the current tier? It's still available ingame, so it wouldn't be pay2win by your (ridiculous) definition.

[Mawnix]

How is this pay to win? no one cares about leveling and if you say "well i do" you are like 4% of the player base.

I have 3800 Lesser charms, how are people saying this is pay to win???? I have 3800 JUST from doing my normal routine. I do not go out to farm them.

Anyone who makes slippery slope argument in life is just plain uneducated

People enjoy making Mountains out of Ant Hills.

They always overreact to something that's initially unveiled.

The human mind is sometimes a really shitty thing.

[Tenjen]

taking baby steps towards something is helpful, especially concerning the nature of the vocal majority when it comes to changes in WoW, with all the whining and QQ over GOOD changes. But there is a boundary where the changes head in a direction that is a legitimate concern for all players. the change makers may not realise themselves, making a change, getting comfortable with it and then after a while thinking that stretching the boundaries is "alright" until its so stretch after a bunch of steps that we end up in a place that we DO NOT want to be.

I believe the ingame store will be a great model for WoW Asia due to the difference in how they make payments, the experience cut off timer and other such differences as per the areas there. I do not believe this will be a good system for the EU/US region however due to the same differences but can also see how it can be made to work.

I do hope this doesnt (and may i mention i do not think this will happen) set precedent for what many have brought up, buying game play relevant raid items and content access, especially exclusive content, within expansions. I do not see this happening yet. Though i do hope blizz does not start selling exclusive mog only sets and items in the store. While technically "cosmetic", this is a large part of our gameplay as it is what we look like 99% of the time when playing. But it hasnt come to this.

not saying that blizz is doing this but blizz is a business and it responds to the flow of customer demands, not what they say but how they behave. The mount/pet store is nice and non bothersome to those who dont wish to partake in it. This ingame store is also non-intrusive BUT if it turns into what we fear or is later experimented with to see if there is profitable interest (along with being non-disruptable enough ingame) down the road , then we dont just QUIT the game but we speak out against it (civilly) and show a lack of interest in utilising it. Feedback. Quiting will not help, it takes us out of the equation, means less people are supporting the present system and comparably more are utilizing the new system. A business responds to the flow of the customers for their money. this is how it should be. Where it is going and where it is not in terms of cash-payment systems

THUS, while the ingame store IS going to happen and MAY come to the EU and US regions, it is up to us what sort of items become popular on it and what sort of items are NEVER put on it. Our feedback, positive, negative or stated disinterest, will inflience it

[Raelbo]

have not seen you proven anything

Those who are blind will not see.

even your PVP statement seems flawed, if people are paying for a easier time seems like winning to me

Winning against whom exactly? You said it yourself. You are paying for an easier time. You're not paying to win (winning implying there is a loser). BIG difference.

less time being gawked and sooner to getting to gawk), also by leveling all those alts faster is a major advantage,

Against whom?

[/quote]I have several alts and it makes farming mats cake, and it's tons easier having all kind of toons with different professions (a lot easier to level at max one shot any node guarding mobs and flying FTW) which can give a major edge in the AH. - leveling alt faster does equal more gold faster in the end.[/QUOTE]

And this helps you "win" how? More importantly, who exactly is "losing" by not buying the faster level up? How exactly are you losing by someone else doing this?

Sorry, but I just simply don't see it happening that a bunch of other people on my server buying faster levelling or a bunch of lesser charms is going to negatively affect my gameplay, or any of my ingame objectives, which at the end of the day, is all the matters.

Like I said before, if you are actually playing to win, ie beat those you are competing against in the game, these things are not going to do it for you. They won't help you get gladiator. They won't help you get realm first boss kills or be the first guild to do the raid metas, or get the top ranked challenge mode team or RBG team or the top battle team, or anything measured on a site like wowprogress or guildox.

They may help you amass a bit more gold, and I suppose if there is a competition to see who has the most gold in the game, then this can help someone to "win" at that. But for most people, gold is simply a means to an end, and if you are having to use a faster levelling buff to get even more, you will almost certainly have so much gold already that the need for more is nothing more than a compulsion, rather than a means to achieving something else in the game for which you already more than enough.

That being said, I believe 99% of people who will be buying these services won't be doing it to "win" anything. They are probably mostly altoholics wanting to have a bit of non-competitive fun with their toon without having to spend hours leveling up and then grinding coins by doing more dailies to try and get their LFR gear quicker. I don't see how this can possibly be a bad thing for you...

[MoanaLisa]

Why just previous tier LFR gear? Why not complete heroic tier equipment sets of the current tier? It's still available ingame, so it wouldn't be pay2win by your (ridiculous) definition.

Ridiculous or not, some people would consider T14 LFR gear--or any gear at all in a cash shop--as pay2win. Hence the question: What are you winning at this point in time?

By the way, it was an example; an illustration of what some might think is pay2win and others might not.

[Lomak]

Just goes to show, they don't give a shit about making the gameplay experience any better or fresher. Just simple as...

1. Take their initial purchase fee, let em in
2. Take their subscription fee
3. Nickel and dime em all the way through the entire experience via microtransactions.

None of it is about providing a mechanically good experience, just to quicken the experience (with the nice perk of fattening their whole wallet) to rush you through the whole boring ass game.