I always wanted only to see the content

[DeadmanWalking]

says the guy who made an assumption about people raiding with me? hypocritical wouldnt you say? maybe follow your own guidelines, double standards wont work with me I will shut you down fast

I didnt assume anything about the people raiding with you, all I said is why do people choose garbage wrapped in xmas paper over raiding with you. You're the one that said you wished some of your guild didn't raid with you based on their behavior towards other players. Not me.

I am not ignorant enough to believe that raiders or hardcore raiders are elitists, there are far more good raiders out there that don't feel they need people kissing their boots to make them feel good than elitists.

LFR has a crap load of problems, from people afking, people queueing up in wrong spec to jump the queue, people in PVP gear to jump the queue, random kicks, badly behaving players, people with no clue what they have to do to win, and yet they still choose this over raiding in a guild. Figure out why that is.

[Deleted]

You are operating under a diseased and false assumption that they all quit due to LFR.

???

I never said 1.3mill left due to LFR... i suggest u go back and read it properly lol

To remind u the exchange >>>

That being said just because people bitch and whine on a forum does not actually mean a lot of people are bitching and complaining. .

my reply...

Absolutely correct... but 1.3million ex-Wow players say hi.

The FACT that such an unprecidented amount of players leaving the game shouts loud and clear there are issues right now at this moment in Wow.

To summarise...

Deadman makes a general point that there r hardly anyone bitching and complaining about the current state of the game.

I reminded him that players r leaving at an alarming rate.

[TyrantWave]

It's for one or all of the following reasons:
A) they arent good enough
B) they dont have the time
c) they play with real life friends who fall into category A or B

There is your culprit dear sir. I can 100% guarantee that if someone had the time and was good enough they would not hesitate a moment to jump into Blood Legion, Method or Midwinter's core group.

I'd fall into B from that list, but the real truth is I disdain elitists and drama filled guilds. Why's that not an option?

[pallyopness]

I didnt assume anything about the people raiding with you, all I said is why do people choose garbage wrapped in xmas paper over raiding with you. You're the one that said you wished some of your guild didn't raid with you based on their behavior towards other players. Not me.

I am not ignorant enough to believe that raiders or hardcore raiders are elitists, there are far more good raiders out there that don't feel they need people kissing their boots to make them feel good than elitists.

LFR has a crap load of problems, from people afking, people queueing up in wrong spec to jump the queue, people in PVP gear to jump the queue, random kicks, badly behaving players, people with no clue what they have to do to win, and yet they still choose this over raiding in a guild. Figure out why that is.

Might wanna reread my post, I did not say I wish people didnt raid with me. I said I wished some people left guild. LOL MUCH DIFFERENT. every guild has someone that doesnt hurt anyone that might just be overly obnoxious that you could do without....that goes for ANY guild not just mine as you are trying to link me to your elitest points of views. Nice try once again sir, you failed.

[dryankem]

It's for one or all of the following reasons:
A) they arent good enough
B) they dont have the time
c) they play with real life friends who fall into category A or B

There is your culprit dear sir. I can 100% guarantee that if someone had the time and was good enough they would not hesitate a moment to jump into Blood Legion, Method or Midwinter's core group.

Actually my reason isn't A, B or C. My reason is I don't want to schedule my time and I don't want to go on vent. I have plenty of time to play (play way more than I should), I'm good enough (you'll just have to take my word on that one), although I do have friends that aren't good enough but that doesn't really affect my opinion either way.

I can 100% guarantee that if I had enough talent to be in the blood legion or method that I would NEVER do it. I feel bad about how much I commit to this game as is, I couldn't imagine getting serious and feel pressured to always stay at the top.

[DeadmanWalking]

It's for one or all of the following reasons:
A) they arent good enough
B) they dont have the time
c) they play with real life friends who fall into category A or B

There is your culprit dear sir. I can 100% guarantee that if someone had the time and was good enough they would not hesitate a moment to jump into Blood Legion, Method or Midwinter's core group.

So you agree with me that LFR is not the reason they do not raid. I'm glad we agree.

And you need to back up a bit, I didn't call you an elitist or anyone in your guild. When I said 'you' I mean raid guilds in general, or more aptly 'Anyone reading my post that is not me.' My apologies if my intent was badly worded but I made no assumptions are to your playstyle, merely a poorly worded turn of phrase.

[BobAwesome]

LOL my opinion is invalid? Give me a break. I see nothing but pro lfr'rs saying how guilds like mine are assholes and demean people and treat them like shit. I am showing you that is false. Sorry if I disprove your theory of all heroic progression guilds being complete assholes with no heart. Just because it proves people like you wrong doesnt make it invalid. Nice try buddy.

Thats like me saying because you arent in a heroic progression guild your opinion of them is invalid. See the issue here?

Don't get mad. You're participating in a discussion you have no business being in. You could say my opinion on heroic guilds is invalid... If I hadn't been in one, bit I have. Have you not been in a heroic guild? Have you only raided LFR. Yeah... Didn't think so. So don't sit here and bitch about heroic guilds getting bad wraps for being asshols because guess what? You're acting like an asshole. Asshole.

[Maniac2]

Why would you post that here? You're just asking to be trolled. Go to the Blizz forums and thank them there, less likely to get a little crap from people.

Actually, I thought a little honesty from ex semi hardcore wouldnt hurt this forum.
And, Im sure Blizz reads this forum carefully, just like its their own. Or ar least, as a serious company, they should.

[caninepawprints]

You want to know what LFR got rid of for me? Elitist assholes who blame people for wipes that happen by bad RNG or simple mistakes during the learning process. I do NOT miss getting yelled at for stupid crap. I like being able to choose the times I want to raid, when it's convenient for me, and not have to worry about people critiquing every time I fart and how to make it louder, longer, or smellier the next time. Sure, I made some friends. But what I remember most from raiding in guilds is getting ripped on because I died to a boss mechanic I was unfamiliar with due to it being my first time with the encounter. Nobody walks into the raids one shotting all the bosses their first time. Or their second, third, or fourth time. By the middle and end of the current raid content, people are so elitist that they won't accept anything less than perfection. It didn't even matter if someone was one of the top three on the damage meters if they died. I hated the stress I got from people who hated wiping repeatedly. Why are they even raiding if they can't handle the learning curve? I can't count the number of times I almost went off on my raid leader because of how he treated the other players in the group, and then there was the one time I did lose it... I was amazed by how quiet he got when he finally pushed someone past their limits. I almost felt powerful to know that I had put him in his place. He actually behaved respectfully towards people for a few days. But that didn't last... No, I don't miss raiding with him, and I was glad when he quit the game.

LFR finally gave me some peace so I could play and enjoy the content.

[Deleted]

Its really sad to see just how much the current Wow playerbase hate raiding guilds...

Im guessing u were someone who had a hard time playing in a raiding guild... did u get picked on?

Its really sad to see just how much the current wow playerbase hate on others becaues of their enjoyments...

Im guessing u were someone who.... have a hard time understand that not everyone enjoy the same as you, oh well.

[Deleted]

Its really sad to see just how much the current wow playerbase hate on others becaues of their enjoyments...

Im guessing u were someone who.... have a hard time understand that not everyone enjoy the same as you, oh well.

???

I quit Wow last year... so your point makes no sense... it sounds like u have me confused with someone else lol

[anaxie]

We don't have to,
-Study our class extensively for optimal performance,
-Study each fight for optimal performance,
-Try to orchestrate our optimal rotation in a stressful progress environment,
-Wipe for hours to kill a single boss for some reason(yaay so fun),
-Try to not fail on memorizing/reaching/assigning keybinds for each of your main characters,
-Work extensively to perform decent while still being able to pay attention to boss mechanics, without all that "friends are depending on my performance to not wipe for another hour" stress,
-Level x number of professions or do other forms of extremely boring stuff(such as dailies) to get more gold to spend on enchants, gems, flasks, pots or gear that gets changed constantly as you get better drops,
-Get into arguements over numbers, such as dps or healing meters,

to experience the content now.

As I said before, this might be easy, monotonous for experienced gamers; but I always have a hard time to explain to them that this whole raiding ritual is no where near "fun" for a casual gamer, or an inexperienced player who has no intention/time to get to your level of experience, it is tiresome and stressful for the majority of the player base. As a gamer(I love this great hobby), I can say that World of Warcraft is way too harder than a single player fantasy game, and I, we, love playing both. But I cannot sacrifice my time and I don't have the interest to adjust to damn video game I pay to play every month, it has to adjust to me, if my views are shared by most of its target audience. Considering LFR, LFD, new talent system etc, I can safely say that they are vastly shared.

We get in, we see the story, we get some improvements on our gear and we get out. All of it takes a very little time, and LFR keeps the thrill of "Just drop that awesome axe already" well, it does a very good job at it. Long story short, LFR is pretty awesome, Flex system also sounds awesome, and I hope they stay that way.

I swear not ALL but a huge majjority of lfr pro players must h ave had a run in with a bad experience raiding at some time. I get this vibe from you. How unfortunate. Also all your points is really just the same thing repeated. /clap

I must say though LFR fits a large portion of it's demographic perfectly.

[pallyopness]

Don't get mad. You're participating in a discussion you have no business being in. You could say my opinion on heroic guilds is invalid... If I hadn't been in one, bit I have. Have you not been in a heroic guild? Have you only raided LFR. Yeah... Didn't think so. So don't sit here and bitch about heroic guilds getting bad wraps for being asshols because guess what? You're acting like an asshole. Asshole.

LOL....are you in an elite guild now? NO? why not? I raid lfr, I go there to help others finish in a timely fashion. I go all out and never afk? that sound like an asshole to you? You have no idea what you are talking about. A moron with lips who feels he knows anything and everything? Gain some knowledge, type to me in a few years when you get older. got it? or does it need spelled out better?

Do I need to LFR this paragraph down for you?


LMFAO now that there is funny

Flaming is not tolerated here

[Deleted]

If you can read you would note that I am a Raider and I am not an elitist. Elitists are making a bad name for the rest of us who really don't care who does what with the content. Someone doing easy content for subpar rewards in LFR doesn't effect my game or my guilds progress. If anything them buying more gems and enchants just makes me richer.

Well u must have me confused with someone else cos i havent said a single word about removing LFR. I positively encourage it to exist within the game, its popular and definitely has a place in Wow.

My issue is that it needs to be redesigned within the game because its clearly breaking the game in various ways. A redesign with better goals and understanding by Blizzard in exactly what LFR is. Because right now i dont think they know what the fukk theyre doing with it.

Ur sir r making far too many assumptions without reading what i actually write.

PS its easy to say ur not an elitist but i think others on this thread would totally disagree judging by your arrogant and condescending approach to posting.

[anaxie]

made up numbers? ru for real?

How exactly are 1.3million players unsubbing in 1 quarter 'made up'?

Please explain that to me cos im pretty sure Blizzards accountants would like to know how u know its wrong.

One reason for unsub is because the experience is so watered down and demeaning now. As opposed to the casual player doing quality huge amounts of 5 mans and Kara in TBC they are subjected to LFR of today. How unfortunate. One is gratifying gameplay the other is cinematic mode.

[nekobaka]

Its really sad to see just how much the current wow playerbase hate on others becaues of their enjoyments...

Im guessing u were someone who.... have a hard time understand that not everyone enjoy the same as you, oh well.

In a world where each thing is separate and has absolutely no impact on other features in the game with infinite development resources you might not see any complaints. Just like how blance change in PVE can have an impact on PVP despite them being so different from each other, the existence of LFR has created shifts in the game that impact even those who dont participate in raiding content.

[DeadmanWalking]

???

I never said 1.3mill left due to LFR... i suggest u go back and read it properly lol

To remind u the exchange >>>



my reply...



To summarise...

Deadman makes a general point that there r hardly anyone bitching and complaining about the current state of the game.

I reminded him that players r leaving at an alarming rate.

You exist in a disjointed reality where up is down and down is up.

1) People leave the game for many many reasons.
2) The alarming rate was a huge majority of Asian subscirptions WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LFR AND A LOT TO DO WITH THEIR CULTURE.
3) You are making a disconcerting leap between 'people are complaining about LFR' and 'Lots of people are leaving Wow'. Its a fact that only a minor slice of players ever come to MMO champion, by very definition thats 'Hardly anyone' no matter what side of the argument of LFR you stand on.
4) You don't know what the majority is, nor do I. Blizzard does and that number says LFR is working as intended and its going to stay in the game.

Your 'logic' leap that 1.3 million people left the game and people complain on MMO champion is astounding mostly because you feel the need to bash your forehead on these forums over and over again, presenting the same flawed argument adnauseum.

[dryankem]

Well u must have me confused with someone else cos i havent said a single word about removing LFR. I positively encourage it to exist within the game, its popular and definitely has a place in Wow.

My issue is that it needs to be redesigned within the game because its clearly breaking the game in various ways. A redesign with better goals and understanding by Blizzard in exactly what LFR is. Because right now i dont think they know what the fukk theyre doing with it.

Ur sir r making far too many assumptions without reading what i actually write.

You have to remember that LFR is new. It's been here since what 4.3. They obviously need time to work at it but they have the best MMO on the market hands down because clearly they know what they are doing or at the very least aren't afraid of changing their mistakes.

How would you redesign it anyways and remember to think like a designer (ie you can't remove the gear or no one will run it and queue times would be in the days not hours)?

[anaxie]

So let me get this right... You're a guild leader of heroic progression guild who hasn't had open recruitment in quite some time. Hey buddy, you're the 1% in WoW. You have no clue why people prefer LFR over raid guilds. It does not apply to you, at all. You really should stop trying to express your invalid opinion about something you're not even participating in and that has zero effect on you.

Hes not the 1% because recruitment never ends. So...

[Deleted]

In a world where each thing is separate and has absolutely no impact on other features in the game with infinite development resources you might not see any complaints. Just like how blance change in PVE can have an impact on PVP despite them being so different from each other, the existence of LFR has created shifts in the game that impact even those who dont participate in raiding content.

While what you are saying is true, im not denying that, and its not the only place where one part of the game made/make another part worse, but my point was simple to the people that hate on lfr just because its cool, like the dude i quoted.
Because franky most people here on these forums, any forums for that matter that whine over lfr, is just doing it because its "what everyone is doing so i must do so too!" without giving any real reason behind their hate.