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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    ???

    I quit Wow last year... so your point makes no sense... it sounds like u have me confused with someone else lol
    Well why didn't you say so sooner? I could of pulled out the Forum Ghost scroll sooner! At least I can stop taking you seriously now and chaulk it all up to you being bored and needing to keep your brain busy while dwelling on how you were wronged in your past life and you want to spend your free time moaning and screeching about it while the rest of us are just trying to get on with their lives.

    Look, if you don't enjoy something I applaud your choice to not do it anymore but you really need to make a break away from that which you don't enjoy anymore and that includes arguing with strangers on unofficial forums. Dwelling on that which you no longer enjoy isn't healthy.

    I use to belong in a Game workshop guild that would be the same as a wow world first raid guild. We would travel the east coast and win the majority of the tournaments, It was a hobby that I was heavily invested in for over a decade but eventually I burned out on it when the company that I supported with money and time decided to use my wallet as a condom on me and nerfed all my old models and replaced them with new better models that I would be force to buy all over again just to stay competetive in an attempt to make me pay more money. I said, "Thats enough! I'm out!" and I quit cold turkey.

    I use to argue tactics on a GW forum and talk about the game but since I went cold turkey I decided I wouldn't waste my time cauterwaling about how I had been wronged in my past life to people who were still trying to enjoy the game. I went off and found something else that I could enjoy and spend my time on and I am a much happier person because of it. You can't be happy by dwelling on something you decided you don't want to do anymore. Go find something you enjoy and discuss it on those forums, follow the light.... follow the light... its okay!

  2. #402
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    3) You are making a disconcerting leap between 'people are complaining about LFR' and 'Lots of people are leaving Wow'. Its a fact that only a minor slice of players ever come to MMO champion, by very definition thats 'Hardly anyone' no matter what side of the argument of LFR you stand on.
    Deadman u cannot change what u originally wrote... u were making GENERAL judgments on players in Wow, not LFR.

    heres your post>>>

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    That being said just because people bitch and whine on a forum does not actually mean a lot of people are bitching and complaining. I think if you read this whole thread again you will find between 6 and a dozen people who just repeat their crying over and over again. Its like wack a mole, yes hundreds of times you wack mole sin the head but if you pay attention its the same dozen wack-amoles popping up again and again.

    You keep using this stupid argument that since people complain its obviously a problem, its only a problem because they support your viewpoint. Nothing more.
    ur CLEARLY making generalisations about people who complain on the forums and how theyre a minority... it had nothing to do with LFR, u werent discussing LFR and therefore my response was nothing to do with LFR.

    Therefore my response was reminding u that the massive drop in subs is a reminder that everything is not fine, there are problems.

    Your attempt to change your standpoint is pitiful dude.

    However, to address your other points...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    1) People leave the game for many many reasons.
    Agreed, but some reasons for unsubbing r more common than others.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    2) The alarming rate was a huge majority of Asian subscirptions WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LFR AND A LOT TO DO WITH THEIR CULTURE.
    Errrm Kotick himself said that subs will defintiely drop alot more before the end of the year, a shareholder warning. ALso the language used did not say anything about a 'huge majority' of sub losses being in Asia. The exact wording is>>>

    " although the game saw declines of approximately 1.3 million subscribers, mainly from the East, but in the West as well"

    Where is that word HUGE???

    It says 'mainly' but also in the West... such language followed by a clear statement that subs will definitely drop even more demonstrates loud and clear that subs r in decline. No matter how u want to try to hide that fact it wont go away. And dont kid yourself into thinking that EU and US Wow is going along fine... it isnt. There are problems and thats why so many players r leaving.
    Last edited by mmoc978ad45763; 2013-07-10 at 08:04 PM.

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    ???

    I quit Wow last year... so your point makes no sense... it sounds like u have me confused with someone else lol
    If you quit last year then your opinion is coming strictly from forum posts. Note, it's not a good source of info, too many vocal whiners.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasjar View Post
    While what you are saying is true, im not denying that, and its not the only place where one part of the game made/make another part worse, but my point was simple to the people that hate on lfr just because its cool, like the dude i quoted.
    Because franky most people here on these forums, any forums for that matter that whine over lfr, is just doing it because its "what everyone is doing so i must do so too!" without giving any real reason behind their hate.
    I dont think they do it to be cool, I think they truly believe what they say. It doesn't mean they are right though and I am going to defend LFR because I personally enjoy it and I use it to advance my Raid Guilds Progression. I can argue my side and they are welcome to argue their side. If you assume they are doing it to be cool and fit in then you are underestimating them.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    ???

    I quit Wow last year... so your point makes no sense... it sounds like u have me confused with someone else lol
    If you quit WoW last year, why are you here talking about current events in WoW?


    Quote Originally Posted by pallyopness View Post
    LOL....are you in an elite guild now? NO? why not? I raid lfr, I go there to help others finish in a timely fashion. I go all out and never afk? that sound like an asshole to you? You have no idea what you are talking about. A moron with lips who feels he knows anything and everything? Gain some knowledge, type to me in a few years when you get older. got it? or does it need spelled out better?

    Do I need to LFR this paragraph down for you?


    LMFAO now that there is funny
    Yeah, you're an asshole.


    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Hes not the 1% because recruitment never ends. So...
    Your comment makes zero sense, but that's ok because I wasn't addressing you in the first place. Hurp de derpy de durp.
    Priest Warrior
    You are not your role. You are not how much gold you have on your account.
    You are not the mount you ride. You are not the contents of your bank.
    You are not your epic purples. You are not a special and unique snowflake.
    You are the all-grinding, all-farming crap of Azeroth.

  6. #406
    lol this guy just has no clue, I love rambling with no sense of realism or knowledge

    btw I am a smartass, not an asshole but you continue to generalize and try to demean...see folks this here is a guy who is calling names treating someone like garbage.....and just a reminder just because i am in an "elitest" guild as raid leader and gm I am supposed to be the asshole.

    See a problem here anyone else?

    This guy alone shows that assholes arent in elitest guilds only, they are filled in lfr too? you cant escape them. Just because you are an asshole in an lfr and not an elitest guild doesn't make you a better asshole. or a lesser asshole...
    Last edited by pallyopness; 2013-07-10 at 08:08 PM.

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    There are many threads about it on these very forums. Loads of well-established and experienced guilds and players have noted the severe lack of skilled players around. Thier apps system has all but ground to a halt. Top guilds like Paragon dropping from 25man to 10man and stating clearly that its due to the lack of skilled players available. Since then dozens of other top guilds have done the same.

    The fact that if ur honest u will admit that on your own realm u have noticed that all the well-established guilds from back in the day, most (if not all) have folded and disappeared.

    I can even cite the documentary "Race to World first" which is set in cata and based around Blood Legion who clearly state on the record that they have noticed a huge drop off in skilled available players.






    My definition of "raiding" is guilds who are raiding in Normal or Heroic. LFR is not part of the "raiding scene".

    LFR may have been originally opened to help players get into raiding but in reality its hindered raiding guilds. Very obviously so.

    Ru really trying to tell me that LFR teaches new players anything about real guild raiding whatsoever? ofc not. No raid leader, no tactics, minimal wiping, no vent. Theyre actually worlds apart. New players to Wow will learn absolutely nothing at all about what will be expected from them when they join a raiding guild.

    Raiding guilds are shouting very loudly that LFR players r either not bothering to step up to raiding or the ones who do r totally clueless, or just bad.

    Im sure there are some very nice stories of some great players moving up but that the exception not the norm...

    Ask ANY guild thats raiding how many players theyve recruited from LFR... then u will see for yourself.
    The problem is, in my opinion, is that raids (Normal raids and above, I mean) are made for raiders. People who are already raiding, have been raiding, or have that mindset. It's exclusionary by very design, and that's the real problem, more than anything. Not so much LFR (and it has it's part, but it's not as big as people claim it to be, in comparison to this.)

    There's no real stepping off point to go from one to the other. The system is not a fit for the current gaming landscape, and it's inherently doomed to failure. It's a niche activity, done by a niche amount of people, that wants more people to be doing it, but basically is abhorrent of any real logical solution, and unwilling to adapt to the changing landscape, COUPLED with Blizzard making absolutely bizarre design decisions. At least that's what I think. You take LFR away, it's not going to magically increase things. You go a time and imagine if there never was a LFR, it's not magically going to make things better either.

    I don't even know what some people, like Seefer, think the solution is. It's not taking things away, it's trying to come up with ways to better train the player base.

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Deadman u cannot change what u originally wrote... u were making GENERAL judgments on players in Wow, not LFR.

    heres your post>>>



    ur CLEARLY making generalisations about people who complain on the forums and how theyre a minority... it had nothing to do with LFR, u werent discussing LFR and therefore my response was nothing to do with LFR.

    Therefore my response was reminding u that the massive drop in subs is a reminder that everything is not fine, there are problems.

    Your attempt to change your standpoint is pitiful dude.

    However, to address your other points...



    Agreed, but some reasons for unsubbing r more common than others.



    Errrm Kotick himself said that subs will defintiely drop alot more before the end of the year, a shareholder warning. ALso the language used did not say anything about a 'huge majority' of sub losses being in Asia. The exact wording is>>>

    " although the game saw declines of approximately 1.3 million subscribers, mainly from the East, but in the West as well"

    Where is that word HUGE???

    It says 'mainly' but also in the West... such language followed by a clear statement that subs will definitely drop even more demonstrates loud and clear that subs r in decline. No matter how u want to try to hide that fact it wont go away. And dont kid yourself into thinking that EU and US Wow is going along fine... it isnt. There are problems and thats why so many players r leaving.
    mainly from the East

    Really now you are just arguing what the meaning of 'Is' is. I'm having a hard time taking you seriously anymore. -_-

  9. #409
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    *snip* follow the light... its okay!
    And u say ur not in the elitist category after such pointless and childish abuse?

    U cleary never read my posts fully because ive said MANY times why i still frequent these forums, and funnily enough its the same as the hundreds of others who have quit and still post here. We care about the game.

    Your bad and obnoxious attitude towards fellow wowfans is a clear advert for how this community has become toxic and nasty... ru surprised people r leaving when such toxicity has diseased this once friendly community?

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I left in early Cataclysm, and came back only because LFR was being added (although I didn't use it until MoP).

    The decline in Cataclysm was stopped for half a year after LFR was added, and I think a lot of that was people returning now that they weren't being excluded. Exclude them again and they will leave again.
    I'm in the same boat. I left and said I'd never come back unless they added something akin to LFR, and they did, so I did. Without it, I essentially had a worthless endgame. Most people had a worthless endgame without it, and that's the truth most people want to pretend isn't real. Most people didn't go to, and didn't want to go to normals. They just want to play a game :x They could argue that hey! Why are all these millions playing this game then :x I don't know :x I enjoy it, I just hate pointlessly restricted content, but I actually DO like the game.

  11. #411
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    mainly from the East

    Really now you are just arguing what the meaning of 'Is' is. I'm having a hard time taking you seriously anymore. -_-
    LMAO

    good job at avoiding the point of my post and selecting semantics... u got owned... live with it.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by pallyopness View Post
    lol this guy just has no clue, I love rambling with no sense of realism or knowledge

    btw I am a smartass, not an asshole but you continue to generalize and try to demean...see folks this here is a guy who is calling names treating someone like garbage.....and just a reminder just because i am in an "elitest" guild as raid leader and gm I am supposed to be the asshole.

    See a problem here anyone else?

    This guy alone shows that assholes arent in elitest guilds only, they are filled in lfr too? you cant escape them. Just because you are an asshole in an lfr and not an elitest guild doesn't make you a better asshole. or a lesser asshole...
    Oh I'm sorry, you're not an asshole, but a smartass? Oh I see now. Do you know what the common denominator between an asshole and a smartass is? An ass. You're an ass. Cheers!

    Infracted. Keep it civil
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2013-07-10 at 08:45 PM.
    Priest Warrior
    You are not your role. You are not how much gold you have on your account.
    You are not the mount you ride. You are not the contents of your bank.
    You are not your epic purples. You are not a special and unique snowflake.
    You are the all-grinding, all-farming crap of Azeroth.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Ansible View Post
    Oh I'm sorry, you're not an asshole, but a smartass? Oh I see now. Do you know what the common denominator between an asshole and a smartass is? An ass. You're an ass. Cheers!
    and you are a babbling waste of space. Cheers

    Don't perpetuate the flaming and arguing
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2013-07-10 at 08:45 PM.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by madokbro View Post
    We don't have to,
    -Study our class extensively for optimal performance,
    -Study each fight for optimal performance,
    -Try to orchestrate our optimal rotation in a stressful progress environment,
    -Wipe for hours to kill a single boss for some reason(yaay so fun),
    -Try to not fail on memorizing/reaching/assigning keybinds for each of your main characters,
    -Work extensively to perform decent while still being able to pay attention to boss mechanics, without all that "friends are depending on my performance to not wipe for another hour" stress,
    -Level x number of professions or do other forms of extremely boring stuff(such as dailies) to get more gold to spend on enchants, gems, flasks, pots or gear that gets changed constantly as you get better drops,
    -Get into arguements over numbers, such as dps or healing meters,

    to experience the content now.

    As I said before, this might be easy, monotonous for experienced gamers; but I always have a hard time to explain to them that this whole raiding ritual is no where near "fun" for a casual gamer, or an inexperienced player who has no intention/time to get to your level of experience, it is tiresome and stressful for the majority of the player base. As a gamer(I love this great hobby), I can say that World of Warcraft is way too harder than a single player fantasy game, and I, we, love playing both. But I cannot sacrifice my time and I don't have the interest to adjust to damn video game I pay to play every month, it has to adjust to me, if my views are shared by most of its target audience. Considering LFR, LFD, new talent system etc, I can safely say that they are vastly shared.

    We get in, we see the story, we get some improvements on our gear and we get out. All of it takes a very little time, and LFR keeps the thrill of "Just drop that awesome axe already" well, it does a very good job at it. Long story short, LFR is pretty awesome, Flex system also sounds awesome, and I hope they stay that way.
    Everything you say is true. There is an AND to that, though...

    The LFR/LFD portion of this game is far LESS positive of an atmosphere in general than any guild environment I've been in and I've raided everything from semi-hardcore heroic progression to semi-casual. Didn't raid in Vanilla expressly for the reasons you illustrate, but raided like a madman in BC for those very reasons. I was able and it was great.

    The problem with current LFR/LFD is that there is no support, no learning, no patience, no ability for a new player to gain actual experience (I don't mean XP) and become a better player. I was one of the first Pally tanks on my server in 2.1 when Pally tanking first became viable and I spent much of TBC mentoring other pally tanks. I had a reputation for that and I'd spend hours and hours helping guys with gear, rotation, talents, enchants, mob priority and cc requirements (this was TBC after all).

    What does LFR/LFD offer? A Walmart experience. Low raid value and low raid prices. Sure, you don't have to invest much time, but you get almost nothing out of it. Now, if you have very little time or your server just doesn't have functioning guilds that meet your needs, that may be all you can afford and that's fine. It is what it is.

    But it's not a high value proposition. While guilds run the gamut, a good guild is most definitely a high value proposition.

    I support the LFR/LFD model in the abstract because I think Blizz should support players of all needs. Unfortunately, far too often, I see 1-2 tanks performing, maybe 8-10 dps and 3-4 healers performing and that leaves up to 10 others just afking or purposefully killing themselves in the first few seconds so that they can get their "freebie gearz".

    So, please understand that the LFR/LFD is a bit less because of fewer mechanics on boss fights, but that's really not that big a deal. Some make it into some huge thing, but it's not. LFR/LFD is just easier and we all know that. Fine. Where the real and gross shortchanging occurs is between players. Players shortchange other players by not showing up to play. I always show up knowing fights with food. Sometimes I even flask if I'm undergeared. I come to support the raid even if it's LFR because I'm old school and I don't know how to be a slacker. But when folks are criticizing LFR especially, the most poignant, caustic and pertinent criticisms revolve around the community.

    If LFR/LFD players showed up to play, showed up to support new players, showed up ready to help with strats, showed up ready to learn if they are new players... then so much of this "LFR is easymode" stuff wouldn't matter worth a damn.

    TL;dr The player community is failing LFR/LFD far more than Blizz is or has. We get out of it what we put into it and unfortunately far too many folks put next to nothing in and still get their rewards relying on those that do want to enjoy playing.

  15. #415
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    The problem is, in my opinion, is that raids (Normal raids and above, I mean) are made for raiders. People who are already raiding, have been raiding, or have that mindset. It's exclusionary by very design, and that's the real problem, more than anything. Not so much LFR (and it has it's part, but it's not as big as people claim it to be, in comparison to this.)

    There's no real stepping off point to go from one to the other. The system is not a fit for the current gaming landscape, and it's inherently doomed to failure. It's a niche activity, done by a niche amount of people, that wants more people to be doing it, but basically is abhorrent of any real logical solution, and unwilling to adapt to the changing landscape, COUPLED with Blizzard making absolutely bizarre design decisions. At least that's what I think. You take LFR away, it's not going to magically increase things. You go a time and imagine if there never was a LFR, it's not magically going to make things better either.

    I don't even know what some people, like Seefer, think the solution is. It's not taking things away, it's trying to come up with ways to better train the player base.
    Woot!

    Someone who can discuss my points politely and fairly...

    And i actually agree with most of what u have said. The issue is the gap between LFR and normals, exactly how that gap shold be changed is open to discussion. But that gap needs redress and the only way to fix it is to resdesign LFR from ground up to fit into the bigger picture more effectively.

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    Quit before 4.3 was released... got a 10 day trial when the patch hit and tested it. I didn't even know that it was alot easier, I just thought the game became stupidly easy. I don't hate LFR because it's quick, I hate it because it's a lower difficulty. Why make the content as easy as possible? It's like getting a new video game and just setting it on the easiest setting so that you can grow through it as quick as possible. Since when has rushing through something been the most fun way to enjoy it? All you end up doing is redoing that same content w/ no challenge. The reason I loved heroic was because it offered a challenge that wasn't easy to beat. Maybe people just want the easy route and have never wanted to work for something, but I come from a competitive athletic background and winning was always my goal. I didn't get any joy out of beating bad teams 13-0, but beating a great team in penalty kicks or a late game goal... those were the game I lived for... so when it came to WoW, why bother wasting my time on easy content when I can challenge myself and feel more accomplished? I'm supposed to be a hero in the game, so do heroes take the easy route or do they keep their head up and tackle the difficult content head on? You decide.
    I personally think it's most people just want to play an MMORPG and not be forced to deal with the inherit drama and annoyance of forced grouping. It must be. It can't all be chalked up to difficulty. Why have so few people historically done the aspects that required grouping until it's introduced into an automated system?

    Difficulty has it's part, but there's certainly a truth to what I'm saying too, I think. I have zero problem with difficulty myself, it's the socialization that's forced on you to do anything with any modicum of difficulty that's the problem to me :x

    Most other genres don't have to endure this, and most genres aren't suffering. What genre IS falling flat on it's face in sales in the last few years? Ding ding ding!

  17. #417
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I dont think they do it to be cool, I think they truly believe what they say. It doesn't mean they are right though and I am going to defend LFR because I personally enjoy it and I use it to advance my Raid Guilds Progression. I can argue my side and they are welcome to argue their side. If you assume they are doing it to be cool and fit in then you are underestimating them.
    Ye well as one whos doing only LFR these days, i know what you mean, and thats the part i hat.... dislike most, people seem to think they know whats best for me, without knowing why im doing lfr only.
    And the reason i said they are doing so, are because most of the time when people create yet another hate lfr topic, they often type their own opinion as facts, like this one topic i saw some time ago, it was called LFR killed WoW..i think. which are just to trying and start a flame war.
    You can also see the person i quoted, and that you have been argue with, he quit last year, around the time when lfr just got release or just before i have no idea, but yet hes talking about current content like hes doing it.

  18. #418
    Endemonadia, are you seriously telling me you look to these forums to put your finger on the pulse of the game? That's like looking into a pond down a length of toilet paper tubing and seeing minows and then saying, "Oh My God! These Great white sharks are a huge problem for this ocean of water! I can see them right here! They are eating smaller fish and devouring all life!"

    You have no ideal whats going on in the game because you do not participate, please for the love of all that exists don't base your knee jerk reactionary decision making skills on this tiny subset of wow gamers prone to flourishes of keystrokes and dramatic interpretation.

    Its like going to a political rally of 10,000 republicans holding up anti-democrat signs and leaping to the assumption that all americans are unhappy republicans and these democrats just need to go! There just has to be more behind your decision making than people complaining about something on Forums. These forums will lead you astray if you think its actually a good source for the pulse of the game.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Absolutely correct... but 1.3million ex-Wow players say hi.

    The FACT that such an unprecidented amount of players leaving the game shouts loud and clear there are issues right now at this moment in Wow.

    Its obvious that the psychology of the players who remain will think that the game is fine, i can live with that. But i must stand up against totally misinformed and clueless statements such as ur making.
    There's way more than 1.3 Million ex WoW players :x

    They've said before that there's far more ex WoW players than there are current players (and that was during either WOTLK or Cataclysm, that they said that.).


    Consider that for a moment. It means something. It means there's probably around 12 million or more unsatisfied WoW players.

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Mackeyser View Post
    Everything you say is true. There is an AND to that, though...

    The LFR/LFD portion of this game is far LESS positive of an atmosphere in general than any guild environment I've been in and I've raided everything from semi-hardcore heroic progression to semi-casual. Didn't raid in Vanilla expressly for the reasons you illustrate, but raided like a madman in BC for those very reasons. I was able and it was great.

    The problem with current LFR/LFD is that there is no support, no learning, no patience, no ability for a new player to gain actual experience (I don't mean XP) and become a better player. I was one of the first Pally tanks on my server in 2.1 when Pally tanking first became viable and I spent much of TBC mentoring other pally tanks. I had a reputation for that and I'd spend hours and hours helping guys with gear, rotation, talents, enchants, mob priority and cc requirements (this was TBC after all).

    What does LFR/LFD offer? A Walmart experience. Low raid value and low raid prices. Sure, you don't have to invest much time, but you get almost nothing out of it. Now, if you have very little time or your server just doesn't have functioning guilds that meet your needs, that may be all you can afford and that's fine. It is what it is.

    But it's not a high value proposition. While guilds run the gamut, a good guild is most definitely a high value proposition.

    I support the LFR/LFD model in the abstract because I think Blizz should support players of all needs. Unfortunately, far too often, I see 1-2 tanks performing, maybe 8-10 dps and 3-4 healers performing and that leaves up to 10 others just afking or purposefully killing themselves in the first few seconds so that they can get their "freebie gearz".

    So, please understand that the LFR/LFD is a bit less because of fewer mechanics on boss fights, but that's really not that big a deal. Some make it into some huge thing, but it's not. LFR/LFD is just easier and we all know that. Fine. Where the real and gross shortchanging occurs is between players. Players shortchange other players by not showing up to play. I always show up knowing fights with food. Sometimes I even flask if I'm undergeared. I come to support the raid even if it's LFR because I'm old school and I don't know how to be a slacker. But when folks are criticizing LFR especially, the most poignant, caustic and pertinent criticisms revolve around the community.

    If LFR/LFD players showed up to play, showed up to support new players, showed up ready to help with strats, showed up ready to learn if they are new players... then so much of this "LFR is easymode" stuff wouldn't matter worth a damn.

    TL;dr The player community is failing LFR/LFD far more than Blizz is or has. We get out of it what we put into it and unfortunately far too many folks put next to nothing in and still get their rewards relying on those that do want to enjoy playing.
    I agree with you that you get what you put into LFR. I go in to learn boss mechanics, get subpar gear to imrpove my raid performance, up my valor and to increase my muscle memory. Unfortunately its impossible to create a system where 25 strangers can be forced to get better, even in 5 man content you can jack your numbers up and then just autoattack and no one would know the difference. Theres no such thing as idiot proof.

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