# Thread: WW Mastery redesigned (again) - Time to get 'rebalanced' (again)

1. Originally Posted by Saltycracker
There is no such thing as TEB uptime. You can use it as much or as little as you want.
You measure TeB uptime by taking the total number of TeB stacks used and dividing by total time. Someone who uses it often at 5 stacks will therefore have the same uptime as someone who uses it only at 15. However someone who has more of the new mastery will generate more stacks and thereby have a higher uptime.

@ Req - 28 seconds is kind of a bad value for time to generate a 10 stack of TeB on live. Given that you need to spend 30 chi, and that jab generates 1.18 chi (the .18 comes from combo breaker), you need 30/1.18/2+15 = 27.7118644068 seconds.

To do that you have to spend 18.3486238532 energy/second and you can't use chi wave (every use of chi wave adds +1 second to your time), and you also need 0 time wasted between GCDs.

30 seconds is a lot more realistic.

2. Originally Posted by keithioapc
You measure TeB uptime by taking the total number of TeB stacks used and dividing by total time. Someone who uses it often at 5 stacks will therefore have the same uptime as someone who uses it only at 15. However someone who has more of the new mastery will generate more stacks and thereby have a higher uptime.
You are measuring apples and oranges doing it that way. Just call it TEB/min and we all know what that is.

3. The T15 4-piece just got changed today. Instead of having a 10% chance to generate 1 extra TeB stack, it now increases the damage buff of TeB by 1% (6% -> 7% with 4-piece), for a 16.6% increased effectiveness of TeB.

Also, considering the T16 4-piece, which reduces the Chi cost of RSK, BoK, and FoF by 1 for every 4 stacks of TeB consumed, we may consider using TeB at 12 stacks so we maximize that bonus. The downside is we won't have 15 stacks banked up ready to go for trinket procs or boss mechanics. What I'm really hoping is the set bonus gets changed back to 3 TeB stacks = 1 Chi reduction, so using 15 stacks will be optimal.

4. Originally Posted by Saltycracker
Haste to cap > Crit > Mastery

Mastery isn't scaling very well. You get more TEB/min from haste than mastery, and consequently DPS doesn't scale very well with mastery.
Cool. I had heard that about Mastery but figured it may have improved since the PTR notes. Gearing like 5.0 won't be that bad though, especially if Mastery is at least somewhat useful this time around, unlike 5.0's Mastery.

5. @Rotund
Thanks for the spreadsheet update! I tried to edit it myself and had no idea what I was doing, ha!

@NeverStop
I think the T16 4-p should be changed to something like the T15 4-p or at least something that is more beneficial than that. I just don't think a free BoK, RSK or FoF is going to be as beneficial as what the T15 looks like. Maybe something that increases TEB generation when consuming stacks so like 5% per 3 consumed. So we basically can get 25% increased generation during our TEB usage.

@Frogged
The only problem is that the mastery agil proc trinket and agil mastery trinket are essentially not that good for us. Not sure how the cleave trinket will work out as well, so basically we will have only 1-2 trinkets that are actually good (based on what I see so far).

6. Originally Posted by NeverStop
Also, considering the T16 4-piece, which reduces the Chi cost of RSK, BoK, and FoF by 1 for every 4 stacks of TeB consumed, we may consider using TeB at 12 stacks so we maximize that bonus. The downside is we won't have 15 stacks banked up ready to go for trinket procs or boss mechanics. What I'm really hoping is the set bonus gets changed back to 3 TeB stacks = 1 Chi reduction, so using 15 stacks will be optimal.
Not sure that will really do anything, but that would be ideal for popping at 5 chi and getting off a few solid attacks without having to jab.

I like that bonus, it basically gives us "free" chi that we dont have to jab for. It's not a sexy as a do X% more damage bonus, but it makes our heavy hitters hit harder in that we will be under the TEB buff when we are using them.

It also creates a feedback loop that scales pretty interestingly. You use TEB which gives you chi proxies to use on abilities, which procs more TEB. This is going to lower our soft haste cap by quite a bit and might push us into other talents other than Ascension. Always testing, but it looks like a VERY strong bonus.

7. With some help from Salty, I've updated the Monk Energy Regen Spreadsheet with the latest build. Numbers should be more accurate and closer to what Salty is coming up with.

8. Wasn't really a huge fan of a whole spec being based around Rune trinket. I'm glad it's getting changed so we're not completely reliant around Tigereye Brew.

9. Expel Harm + 90% healing from mastery = 150k + damage to nearby enemy... a heck of a replacement for jab when you're taking damage (since Expel Harm damage does not work with overhealing)...

10. I don't know why, but i have this bad feeling..something about a nerf because of PvP >_> ... <_< .... >_> call me paranoid, but we are not exactly the favorites of the Devs.

11. Originally Posted by Cocopop
Wasn't really a huge fan of a whole spec being based around Rune trinket. I'm glad it's getting changed so we're not completely reliant around Tigereye Brew.
I don't think anyone liked it being based on a trinket, The variation in DPS just shows current users with rune losing DPS and people w/o or w/rune that don't use it properly will come up in DPS. This change is also going to reduce the skill cap for the spec as well.

I don't know why, but i have this bad feeling..something about a nerf because of PvP >_> ... <_< .... >_> call me paranoid, but we are not exactly the favorites of the Devs.
Yeah I'm just hoping they are cool with us being OP for the last patch of the expansion, since a new class really needs some time in the sun or no one will ever get excited about any new class if one is introduced in the future. They are already having trouble making people roll monks, no one will roll a new class in future expansion if monks end up having such a mediocre first expansion.

13. Agree. Some of the new changes will make WW ridiculously OP for PVP. I think there is still some adjustments to come.

14. Originally Posted by Tangra
Expel Harm + 90% healing from mastery = 150k + damage to nearby enemy... a heck of a replacement for jab when you're taking damage (since Expel Harm damage does not work with overhealing)...
Take the new expel glyph and heal the tank if you're not taking damage. Should replace jab pretty much on cooldown. I'm curious if Expel does now or will double dip tigereye brew's buff now that its damage and healing.

15. Originally Posted by DisposableHero
Take the new expel glyph and heal the tank if you're not taking damage. Should replace jab pretty much on cooldown. I'm curious if Expel does now or will double dip tigereye brew's buff now that its damage and healing.
I didn't notice double dipping on the ptr, it seemed to be working normally. But yeah, as it stands currently, the new Expel Harm glyph is going to be mandatory for max PvE dps. You can get some absurd Expel Harms in full raid buffs, replacing a jab every 15 seconds with some pretty strong 200K+ hits.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by xinjun
Agree. Some of the new changes will make WW ridiculously OP for PVP. I think there is still some adjustments to come.
Yeah I just hope they make up their mind soon so that we don't have to deal with last-minute bandaids for an entire patch. It's just so hard to nerf PvP damage without hurting PvE, due to the way monks work, I can maybe see them doing something like making Mastery only give you 5% damage and healing per stack in bgs and arenas.

16. Originally Posted by xinjun
Agree. Some of the new changes will make WW ridiculously OP for PVP. I think there is still some adjustments to come.
This is what happens when you raise the floor of a class, but lower the ceiling. Rune made part of the monk power it's scaling which obviously made the gap between pvp damage and pve damage large based on trinkets and Ilvl. They buffed the spec to compensate for it's now poor scaling, but pvp WW always scaled poor to begin with.

They also keep making changes to our single target healing power:
The TeB healing change has extremely small impact in a large raid environment, but when you are healing only 3 people it's very noticeable. Same goes with expel Harm glyph.

I'm honestly not sure how much Blizzard thinks these changes through.

17. yeah, i was disappointed too often regarding the Monk, the Pve Nerf because of PvP Will happen, no question. i call it already.

It's quite sad, The Monk is the only class i really love... During BC/Wotlk i was playing on my Druid..he was ok but i missed something.. Cata: Enhancer shaman.. something was missing, and then there was the Monk... oh god i loved it. I don't want to be a pathetic weakling because of Pvp.

18. Originally Posted by DisposableHero
Take the new expel glyph and heal the tank if you're not taking damage. Should replace jab pretty much on cooldown. I'm curious if Expel does now or will double dip tigereye brew's buff now that its damage and healing.
Honestly, if the Expel Harm glyph goes live and allows us to cast it upon another raid member, it may become almost a requirement for WW just because of how well EH will scale.

The only downside is that it doesn't proc Combo Breaker - which, with our 2set, might weaken it a bit (though, I'd say not too much... we'll see)

19. Currently that Expel Harm glyph is active on the PTR, it merely replaced the old one that was terrible and nobody in their right mind used. So we'll see if they decide that they want to alter it further, though my guess is they'll keep it as is. They want us to heal as utility, and by god they're going to make us heal.

20. well, from my pov, roro+ our mastery was broken. they fixed it. so now roro is not going to be bis until we can get an ilvl 750 trinket -.-
seriously though. as a pvp player stacking mostly crit and gemming mastery, i get about 40% crit and 40% dmg from 10 stacks, while more or less ignoring haste. now i can gem some haste and more or less ignore mastery and get a 75% dmg boost, wich will significanlty improve the burst i can do in pvp. so for me it's a huge buff unless they fuck it up somehow. in pve i guess you will be enjoying some more mastery to keep the uptime on tigereye but in pvp i'm not so much concerned about the uptime as i am of the effectiveness when i'm able to use it. but i'm kinda curious about if they are thinking about giving us more stacks from chi brew now that we need 15 instead of 10, would make sense to increase from 2 to 3 atleast. i'm positiv about the change anyway

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