WW Mastery redesigned (again) - Time to get 'rebalanced' (again)

[Alhoon]

The utility arms race won't end well. Someone will always have the best and others will still want more to compete.

Once again, GC does simply not understand or is pretending to be an idiot. If we had utility and demanded it to be buffed, this argument would be somewhat valid. But we don't.

[Chiasmus]

He has a very valid point when he talks about the cooldown arms race. A better solution than giving Windwalker more utility would be removing excesses of it from other classes, however that kind of change is more suited to expansion overhauls than mid-expansion patches.

[Deleted]

He has a very valid point when he talks about the cooldown arms race. A better solution than giving Windwalker more utility would be removing excesses of it from other classes, however that kind of change is more suited to expansion overhauls than mid-expansion patches.

No, his point is not valid at all because smoke bomb was added a few months ago AND they are giving a raid cd to DKs in 5.4. So it's fair for other classes to demand utilities while for ours is not.

[Deleted]

if we want utility we just need to spam the shit out of his twitter account. see how they (the devs) talk about "we get many complaints about X and that's why we are changing Y or class X gets cooldown Z", i guess that's how it works nowadays. sad but true.

[Tangra]

Making Zen med a good raid cd brings the problems of BrM and MW getting it too.

Because no ability in this game does different things for different specs...

- - - Updated - - -

He has a very valid point when he talks about the cooldown arms race. A better solution than giving Windwalker more utility would be removing excesses of it from other classes, however that kind of change is more suited to expansion overhauls than mid-expansion patches.

Every melee in the game has one, it's kind of late to be worried about an arms race... lol they quite literally gave warriors 3+ raid cooldowns this expansion, but monks can't have 1.

[Requital]

At level 79 or below, yea it would take you longer to get to 15 stacks. But you have to realize the new Mastery is a chance to generate a second TeB. At 10,200 mastery; 7,200 plus the Mastery buff; that equate to 50% Chance to proc. At 50%, your at the same point as you are on live; where it will take you 30-37 seconds (depending on the T15 4-piece) to reach 15 stack. (10 stacks * 1.5 = 15 stacks)

At this point I'm not too worried about the 90% damage increase compared to the 197.567% TeB you have from a Rune buffed TeB. At least for me, only half of my TeB's are Rune buffed. So for you, a non-Rune buffed TeB is equal to 68.32%. That is an average of 132.943% TeB. That is NOT counting the fact that there will be down-time where you will not have TeB up at all.

I don't think they will bump up the TeB to 8-9% (132.943% / 15 = 8.863%), but 7% is the most I can see them bumping the value of TeB. Then from there either bump up the damage bonus of either Tiger stance or RSK debuff and/or maybe slight adjustment to the damage of any or none of the main abilities.

It doesn't take 30-37 seconds on live to reach 10 stacks, It takes me 28 seconds and it takes double that on PTR

Live Stats

Hit: 2552
Expertise: 2556
Mastery: 9588
Haste: 9584
Crit: 9584

TeB Stack Generation time for Minimum use.

10 Stacks = 28 seconds

PTR Stats - Haste = Live > Crit > Mastery

Hit: 2567
Expertise: 2553
Mastery: 4937
Haste: 9618
Crit: 11953

15 Stacks = 52 seconds

PTR Stats - Haste = Live > Mastery > Crit

Hit: 2592
Expertise: 2553
Mastery: 9641
Haste: 9680
Crit: 7162

15 Stacks = 40 seconds

[The Monarch]

What I get from the above post is that with those PTR stats and a Mastery > Crit priority you can obtain around 23% more uptime on a 90% damage buff. At first glance this looks more attractive than that crit rating. I don't think it's worth debating whether the changes are better or worse; they are happening regardless. Should just focus on figuring out how to maximize what we are given.

[Hinalover]

It doesn't take 30-37 seconds on live to reach 10 stacks, It takes me 28 seconds and it takes double that on PTR

The current build of PTR yes...But the next patch where they are reverting it back to 3 Chi to 1 TeB will make my comment valid.

[Saltycracker]

Req, test that again when the new PTR patch hits. I'm curious regarding what kind of data you will find. Current PTR is a little behind the notes.

- - - Updated - - -

What I get from the above post is that with those PTR stats and a Mastery > Crit priority you can obtain around 23% more uptime on a 90% damage buff. At first glance this looks more attractive than that crit rating. I don't think it's worth debating whether the changes are better or worse; they are happening regardless. Should just focus on figuring out how to maximize what we are given.

There is no such thing as TEB uptime. You can use it as much or as little as you want.

[The Monarch]

Req, test that again when the new PTR patch hits. I'm curious regarding what kind of data you will find. Current PTR is a little behind the notes.

- - - Updated - - -



There is no such thing as TEB uptime. You can use it as much or as little as you want.

Understood, I'm guessing you also got what I meant though. 23% higher stack generation rate.

[Saltycracker]

New PTR Notes:

4pcT15 - Increases the damage of your Tigereye Brew by 1% per stack consumed.

5.3 No RoRo
Estimated Ascension DPS: 214,612
Estimated Pow. Strikes DPS: 203,459
Estimated Chi Brew DPS: 206,348

5.3 DPS w/ RoRo
Estimated Ascension DPS: 242,415
Estimated Pow. Strikes DPS: 222,680

5.4 PTR
Estimated Ascension DPS: 253,818
Estimated Pow. Strikes DPS: 239,380
Estimated Chi Brew DPS: 243,802

Updated the numbers for apples to apples sake. We may or may not be using the T15 4pc in the new tier very long, but a buff nonetheless.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...clpnMXc#gid=25

[Frogged]

5.4 PTR
Estimated Ascension DPS: 253,818
Estimated Pow. Strikes DPS: 239,380
Estimated Chi Brew DPS: 243,802

Very cool. Starting to get a little excited about 5.4. What secondary stat setup were you using for these calculations? Haste softcap > Mastery > Crit?

[Jaggid]

Looks like the reverted the change to how we gain stacks from 4 back to 3 on the ptr. With the increase in damage to 6% per stack makes it seem like they are on the right track. That revision was needed 4 chi consumed was to much 3 should be nice.

[Saltycracker]

Haste to cap > Crit > Mastery

Mastery isn't scaling very well. You get more TEB/min from haste than mastery, and consequently DPS doesn't scale very well with mastery.

[keithioapc]

There is no such thing as TEB uptime. You can use it as much or as little as you want.

You measure TeB uptime by taking the total number of TeB stacks used and dividing by total time. Someone who uses it often at 5 stacks will therefore have the same uptime as someone who uses it only at 15. However someone who has more of the new mastery will generate more stacks and thereby have a higher uptime.

@ Req - 28 seconds is kind of a bad value for time to generate a 10 stack of TeB on live. Given that you need to spend 30 chi, and that jab generates 1.18 chi (the .18 comes from combo breaker), you need 30/1.18/2+15 = 27.7118644068 seconds.

To do that you have to spend 18.3486238532 energy/second and you can't use chi wave (every use of chi wave adds +1 second to your time), and you also need 0 time wasted between GCDs.

30 seconds is a lot more realistic.

[Saltycracker]

You measure TeB uptime by taking the total number of TeB stacks used and dividing by total time. Someone who uses it often at 5 stacks will therefore have the same uptime as someone who uses it only at 15. However someone who has more of the new mastery will generate more stacks and thereby have a higher uptime.

You are measuring apples and oranges doing it that way. Just call it TEB/min and we all know what that is.

[NeverStop]

The T15 4-piece just got changed today. Instead of having a 10% chance to generate 1 extra TeB stack, it now increases the damage buff of TeB by 1% (6% -> 7% with 4-piece), for a 16.6% increased effectiveness of TeB.

Also, considering the T16 4-piece, which reduces the Chi cost of RSK, BoK, and FoF by 1 for every 4 stacks of TeB consumed, we may consider using TeB at 12 stacks so we maximize that bonus. The downside is we won't have 15 stacks banked up ready to go for trinket procs or boss mechanics. What I'm really hoping is the set bonus gets changed back to 3 TeB stacks = 1 Chi reduction, so using 15 stacks will be optimal.

[Frogged]

Haste to cap > Crit > Mastery

Mastery isn't scaling very well. You get more TEB/min from haste than mastery, and consequently DPS doesn't scale very well with mastery.

Cool. I had heard that about Mastery but figured it may have improved since the PTR notes. Gearing like 5.0 won't be that bad though, especially if Mastery is at least somewhat useful this time around, unlike 5.0's Mastery.

[Gulvan]

@Rotund
Thanks for the spreadsheet update! I tried to edit it myself and had no idea what I was doing, ha!

@NeverStop
I think the T16 4-p should be changed to something like the T15 4-p or at least something that is more beneficial than that. I just don't think a free BoK, RSK or FoF is going to be as beneficial as what the T15 looks like. Maybe something that increases TEB generation when consuming stacks so like 5% per 3 consumed. So we basically can get 25% increased generation during our TEB usage.

@Frogged
The only problem is that the mastery agil proc trinket and agil mastery trinket are essentially not that good for us. Not sure how the cleave trinket will work out as well, so basically we will have only 1-2 trinkets that are actually good (based on what I see so far).

[Saltycracker]

Also, considering the T16 4-piece, which reduces the Chi cost of RSK, BoK, and FoF by 1 for every 4 stacks of TeB consumed, we may consider using TeB at 12 stacks so we maximize that bonus. The downside is we won't have 15 stacks banked up ready to go for trinket procs or boss mechanics. What I'm really hoping is the set bonus gets changed back to 3 TeB stacks = 1 Chi reduction, so using 15 stacks will be optimal.

Not sure that will really do anything, but that would be ideal for popping at 5 chi and getting off a few solid attacks without having to jab.

I like that bonus, it basically gives us "free" chi that we dont have to jab for. It's not a sexy as a do X% more damage bonus, but it makes our heavy hitters hit harder in that we will be under the TEB buff when we are using them.

It also creates a feedback loop that scales pretty interestingly. You use TEB which gives you chi proxies to use on abilities, which procs more TEB. This is going to lower our soft haste cap by quite a bit and might push us into other talents other than Ascension. Always testing, but it looks like a VERY strong bonus.