Huge Hunter changes incoming

[Deleted]

if that's the case i'd be okay with it. i wonder where you get your certainty from, though.






>>> (3-1)/1.39*60
86.33093525179856

86 seconds according to my math. also, balancing an ability around one trinket seems a bit odd to me.

Blizzard always balances everything around 2/4set, legendary procs and trinkets.

Been like that for a long time, certain classes are more heavily balanced around it than others.

Demo locks, shadow priest and boomkins are a fine example of it, their interaction with the lei shen trinket.

[Dracodraco]

Blizzard always balances everything around 2/4set, legendary procs and trinkets.

Been like that for a long time, certain classes are more heavily balanced around it than others.

Demo locks, shadow priest and boomkins are a fine example of it, their interaction with the lei shen trinket.

Except that boomkins doesn't use the lei shen trinket because it's shit for them.
The meta gem also has different proc rates for every spec (both the caster and the physical one) to make sure they're all roughly equal in dps (8-10K depending on gear).
So your statement doesn't really make sense.

[Deleted]

Except that boomkins doesn't use the lei shen trinket because it's shit for them.
The meta gem also has different proc rates for every spec (both the caster and the physical one) to make sure they're all roughly equal in dps (8-10K depending on gear).
So your statement doesn't really make sense.

Yeah ok maybe not boomkins.

But spriest and demo locks are balanced around it, why you think they have a significant dps jump after getting the trinket?

Right because it's deliberately balanced around it.

[Tehstool]

Stool - you're forgetting to include focus in those calculations, Arcane shot costs double as much as serpent sting.

There's no need. They are both using the same amount of focus and GCDs. With bestial wrath and the fact that BM shoots off more arcane shots, it wouldn't be worth calculating all the circumstances due to how much it would differ. Regardless, you'd still need to make up a lot more dps when you aren't multi dotting during the fight or if you are only dotting a single target.

I'm not going to calculate using signature shots because you will use them regardless.

Also, roughly it turns out BM gains more out of the deal. You'd get 4 off every minute and that means that at least one (or two) of the 15 focus saved from using serpent sting will be used during BW. With 60 focus saved from using serpent sting and 15 of that being used in bestial wrath. In 5.4 that's 1 or 2 extra arcane shots. With ~60k arcane shots for SV and ~50k for BM would put that it at 130k damage (with 1 under BW) and for SV that would put it at 120k. If it isn't sustained and not used under BW then BM still has the edge due to its single target damage. With 10k extra damage coming from BM, that puts it at 666.6 dps over 15 seconds. Which would put SV's total (after subtracting that) to 3666.73 dps. I lose 12634.11 from going SV. You'd actually need 4 targets to make SV better.

[Deleted]

Blue said once (somewhere around 5.2) they don't balance the class around meta / sets / trinkets - they should give roughly the same DPS to all and everybody.

In reality, we can see this is not really applicable to UVLS.

[Marxman]

I never mash the deterrence button, though. I have /stopcasting in front of it too, so there's no reason, really. As said, I don't pvp, meaning this is purely for PvE use - name me one boss where I'd want to mash deterrence in order to get the use on it off. One click to activate, one click to deactivate, done.

I have the /cancelaura Deterrence macro'd into my Cobra Shot, Explosive Shot, and Kill Command. It's much safer than risking an accidental double press of your macro getting you killed.

[Dracodraco]

There's no need. They are both using the same amount of focus and GCDs. With bestial wrath and the fact that BM shoots off more arcane shots, it wouldn't be worth calculating all the circumstances due to how much it would differ. Regardless, you'd still need to make up a lot more dps when you aren't multi dotting during the fight or if you are only dotting a single target.

I'm not going to calculate using signature shots because you will use them regardless.

Also, roughly it turns out BM gains more out of the deal. You'd get 4 off every minute and that means that at least one (or two) of the 15 focus saved from using serpent sting will be used during BW. With 60 focus saved from using serpent sting and 15 of that being used in bestial wrath. In 5.4 that's 1 or 2 extra arcane shots. With ~60k arcane shots for SV and ~50k for BM would put that it at 130k damage (with 1 under BW) and for SV that would put it at 120k. If it isn't sustained and not used under BW then BM still has the edge due to its single target damage.

On the other hand, BM would use Dire Beast due to mastery scaling, and Surv will use thrill of the hunt due to the importance of arcane shots next tier. I'm not exactly sure that BM will get to use "more" arcane shots than Surv, concidering the fact that their signature shots (KC vs Explo+BA every fourth explo) are roughly the same focus cost. You might have BW up to be able to "spam" arcane shots, but the same is going to be true for Surv and thrill of the hunt, along with the 4pc giving us more free explosive shots = more focus saved to be spent on arcane shots.

Realisticly, though, we won't see who's right untill the sims are updated.

Note that something you are also forgetting is "Proc-dotting" for Surv. On a fight like Protectors, if you have, say, bad juju and renataki up at the same time, you'd spend your serpent sting when renataki is at high stacks before juju falls off. This makes for some extremely potent serpent stings that you can let run the full duration. I'm not saying you can't do it as BM, but it's more beneficial to plan around it as Surv because you'd want to try and burst as much as possible under trinkets for BM.

I have the /cancelaura Deterrence macro'd into my Cobra Shot, Explosive Shot, and Kill Command. It's much safer than risking an accidental double press of your macro getting you killed.

For the fifth time - I haven't ever gotten killed by accidentelly pressing the button twice :3. I'm not entirely sure if every top end hunter has an issue with their "trigger fingers" or something, but to me it has never been an issue. Mashing it in a PvE scenario is dumb, so I don't do it. Precision is key.
(Also, oftopic, if you're the Marxman from Death jesters, fix your damn leg gems <___<. It hurts to look at).

[Tehstool]

On the other hand, BM would use Dire Beast due to mastery scaling, and Surv will use thrill of the hunt due to the importance of arcane shots next tier. I'm not exactly sure that BM will get to use "more" arcane shots than Surv, concidering the fact that their signature shots (KC vs Explo+BA every fourth explo) are roughly the same focus cost. You might have BW up to be able to "spam" arcane shots, but the same is going to be true for Surv and thrill of the hunt, along with the 4pc giving us more free explosive shots = more focus saved to be spent on arcane shots.

Realisticly, though, we won't see who's right untill the sims are updated.

Note that something you are also forgetting is "Proc-dotting" for Surv. On a fight like Protectors, if you have, say, bad juju and renataki up at the same time, you'd spend your serpent sting when renataki is at high stacks before juju falls off. This makes for some extremely potent serpent stings that you can let run the full duration. I'm not saying you can't do it as BM, but it's more beneficial to plan around it as Surv because you'd want to try and burst as much as possible under trinkets for BM.

Ok, fine. I agree that BM using more arcane shots was a bad point, but you cannot just dismiss my math and reasoning. With the slightly extra damage done from scaling more due to mastery, that would just make up for the extra damage BM has on arcane shots if you constantly have a buffed up dot. Which isn't something you usually have up all the time. So, it should be lower in actuality. BM also gets more out of the buffs in 5.4 thus far, so more damage would need to be compensated by SrS for it to actually be better.

[Marxman]

(Also, oftopic, if you're the Marxman from Death jesters, fix your damn leg gems <___<. It hurts to look at).

Hah, good call. I ignored the set bonus before because I was hugely over hit cap.

[Tehterokkar]

Thought I would mention this tweet from GC: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...69971937722369

@Bunzato None. We will likely work to make the 3 hunter and rogue specs play a little more differently from each other.

About damn time for next expansion.

[Finick]

Does anyone else hope that they change Rapid Fire into being a more potent DPS cooldown? Always felt like they could make it a lot better by just giving it maybe something like +10% attack power while active. It'd obviously be kind of a problem with the set bonus and the new trinkets, just something I've always thought would be an easy fix to make it a stronger CD.

[asdfsaf]

Blizzard always balances everything around 2/4set, legendary procs and trinkets.

Been like that for a long time, certain classes are more heavily balanced around it than others.

Demo locks, shadow priest and boomkins are a fine example of it, their interaction with the lei shen trinket.

when balancing around trinkets, they would tweak the trinkets, not abilities. well, at least i would.

[KnightTrent]

I am reading all your smarty pants number crunching and - honestly - i do not care.

I am just so much happy that Readiness is gone... happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy!

May you fester in the worst infernal hole in hell, Readiness.

So much this.

[Heenk]

I really hope they do remove Readiness. I fucking hate that ability, makes my openers feel like playing the piano.

[Sydarm]

blizzard is listening. i give em credit right now a bit

[Puerto]

So how is hunter DPS looking like on the PTR compared to other classes with all these changes? What's our DPS looking like? Haven't had a chance to look through this thread.

[SL1200]

I really hope they do remove Readiness. I fucking hate that ability, makes my openers feel like playing the piano.

Just keeping up the readiness hate, it was a stupid talent to add to Survival and Beast master specs.

[Volitar]

This is neat but I'm still hoping to see Warlock level class overhaul done to Hunter and Rogue, especially hunters.

[WarBringerPT]

Oh man. Do I read it right? Is it really possible that in 5.4 we may be able to use disengage outside of combat? Gief that shit now.

[Tehstool]

Oh man. Do I read it right? Is it really possible that in 5.4 we may be able to use disengage outside of combat? Gief that shit now.

I think that was a datamining error. On the ptr it is indeed in the tooltip.