Huge Hunter changes incoming

[Beoren]

"should have some". In other words, a 15% buff to Aspect of the Hawk and slightly more damage on Arcane shot : P.

They already mention that they will buff our signature shots and if its not enough they will also buff other abilities

[Deleted]

"should have some". In other words, a 15% buff to Aspect of the Hawk and slightly more damage on Arcane shot : P.

oh NVM, thats a new tweet. There was one a month ago or so that said exactly the same thing about buffing signature shots

[Deleted]

Once again blizzard have proven how lazy and incompetent they are when it comes to fixing hunters. The only thing that will save us at this point is a massive single target damage buff and we all know that will never happen because of PvP whining idiots. It's time to vote with your wallets it's the only language blizzard understands.

[Deleted]

The only way to get something is a strong reaction (pression) on the (us) forum with a lot of posts...

[ATron52]

Once again blizzard have proven how lazy and incompetent they are when it comes to fixing hunters. The only thing that will save us at this point is a massive single target damage buff and we all know that will never happen because of PvP whining idiots. It's time to vote with your wallets it's the only language blizzard understands.

Or, before we start making such ridiculous "vote with your wallets" statements, we could at least wait until the PTR is near completion. Until I see a release candidate PTR build, I'm holding out a bit of hope. It's been stated time and time again by various Blues that DPS among specs hasn't been tuned yet - GC's tweet even mentions we should start seeing some balance changes in the next build of the PTR.

I realize that Hunters have been burned before, but it still seems way too early to be threatening to unsub over low damage when we know that the haven't tuned us yet. Now, if we start seeing release candidate builds where we're still bottom of the barrel DPS, then you'll have a reason to do whatever you want. Until then crying foul just seems silly to me when hundreds of hunters have voiced concerns through Twitter, fansites, and the official forums, and they actually seem to realize that we're low and appear to (hopefully) be listening to our concerns.

Just my opinion, at least.

[Deleted]

Maybe we should stop the "wait and see before acting" reaction and act like the warlock and mages community with strong reaction on he forums (see how they manage to revert some nerfs in few hours...)

I feel tired always waiting and hoping and being disappointed each time..

[Beoren]

Maybe we should stop the "wait and see before acting" reaction and act like the warlock and mages community with strong reaction on he forums (see how they manage to revert some nerfs in few hours...)

I feel tired always waiting and hoping and being disappointed each time..

This, Hunter's community is weak unfortunatly. until they will fix our scaling i don't really see Hunters being fixed... so we'll be competitive in the first few weeks and than drop to the low end.. how come Mages get damage hotfix within the first week of a patch (5.2 bombs buff) and hunters are mid-low since the expansion is out how hard is to make our secondaries better?

[ATron52]

That's the thing though, we've had an enormous response on the forums and twitter both. And they do reply with the typical "we haven't done balancing yet" lines, so we KNOW that they have at least heard us. At that point, isn't it more akin to beating a dead horse when they have already acknowledged that there are issues to be solved (Arcane vs Signatures, low damage in general, specs are too similar, etc...)? And while some issues, we've been told will not be fixed for 5.4 (specs are too similar), we've also been told that other issues (Arcane vs Signatures, low damage in general) will be looked at before the patch goes live. Sure, making more of a fuss than we already could let the voices of the hunter community be heard a bit more, but I personally don't see it as necessary at the moment.

*Edit*

Yes, the root of our issues are scaling problems, but I can't seem them reworking the coefficients and formulas for all of our attacks for a raid patch when they've stated they'll working on hunters for the next xpac. I'd be happy to just start strong and end being competitive than start competitive and end weak (what has normally happened in the past).

I'm just taking a wait and see stance though, since they've made it known that they are aware of the issues.

[Redpanda]

Im glad for buffs but whats very disconcerting for me is there is going to be pvp ramifications. Nerds wanted readiness gone? OK YOU GOT IT. They didnt realize that with that gone we would have to get blanket buffs to make up for losing readiness. When people are getting 75k es ticks or 200k chim shots, 250k aimed shots, and 150k kill commands they are going to be wish readiness was back in the game. But you reap what you sow.....

[Deleted]

Where is my cleave and multi-doting? Considering we again won't bring any utility, we should excel at every fight it is throw at us (excel == to be as powerful as mages / locks in T15).

[Noctifer616]

Yes, the root of our issues are scaling problems, but I can't seem them reworking the coefficients and formulas for all of our attacks for a raid patch when they've stated they'll working on hunters for the next xpac. I'd be happy to just start strong and end being competitive than start competitive and end weak (what has normally happened in the past).

Buffing AoTH increases agility scaling, it increases damage of every single skill we got. Increasing mastery scaling fixes our mastery scaling. Those are 2 easy fixes that address our scaling and do not require a major rework. I mean, why would they go and adjust every single ability when they all scale based on AP (weapon damage is also modified by AP).

They could increase haste scaling by either increasing the amount of focus we get from it or make our DoTs tick faster. Crit scaling could be increases by adding a bleed on crit, something MM already has.

Adding multy doting is also not a problem. Make Black Arrow have no CD and lower focus cost, maybe even increase damage.

[Redpanda]

Wow those changes would make sv sound like retarded fun to play. Would make us a true dot class and make us alot more dynamic.

[Dracodraco]

As long as SV have no interaction with the dots that are thrown out, it still wouldn't be nearly as powerfull as any other multidotting class. The reason Boomkins, locks and Spriests are as strong as they are, is because of the fact that for each target they roll dots on, they have higher proc chances of their "nuke" skills, such as Starsurge or Mind Blast.
As SV is limited by a 10 second ICD on Lock and Load, even unbinding BA from its cooldown wouldn't do anything to help us, really.

I already proposed a way to make the spec far more interactive for multi-dotting purposes earlier in this (or was it a different?) thread:

Give Viper Venom a .5 second ICD.
Make it give 6 focus per proc instead of 3, and make it proc every 6 seconds instead of every 3.
This way, if you multi-dot a large group of mobs through Serpent spread, you still only get the old, boring "3 focus every 3 seconds"-average from viper venom.
However, if you dot up 5-6 adds seperately, suddenly you're starting to get 6 focus a second.
Suddenly, the playstyle turns into one where the only thing you do is throw out instants - no more Cobra shots. The regen you would otherwise get from Cobra is gained from the Viper Venom procs, and you are relying on them to be able to keep throwing out damage. If there's only one target, it's exactly as it is now - the more secondary targets you can keep SS rolling on, the less you have to care about cobra shot, basicly.

[Neruse]

AFAIK it's precisely what Tehstool said...pets did 100% damage. I would go into 3v3 arenas in full PVE gear and end up doing more damage than the other DPS on my team despite being stunned or sitting in deterrence the whole time...

I was one of the first to figure out and report exactly how and when 5.0 Stampede was broken (in arena only), and you're basically correct.

The hilarious part was when Blizzard patched Stampede they (for about a day) broke it in a way that Stampede pets were doing 100% damage everywhere. A prompt hotfix and server restart finally fixed that.

[Beoren]

As long as SV have no interaction with the dots that are thrown out, it still wouldn't be nearly as powerfull as any other multidotting class. The reason Boomkins, locks and Spriests are as strong as they are, is because of the fact that for each target they roll dots on, they have higher proc chances of their "nuke" skills, such as Starsurge or Mind Blast.
As SV is limited by a 10 second ICD on Lock and Load, even unbinding BA from its cooldown wouldn't do anything to help us, really.

I already proposed a way to make the spec far more interactive for multi-dotting purposes earlier in this (or was it a different?) thread:

Give Viper Venom a .5 second ICD.
Make it give 6 focus per proc instead of 3, and make it proc every 6 seconds instead of every 3.
This way, if you multi-dot a large group of mobs through Serpent spread, you still only get the old, boring "3 focus every 3 seconds"-average from viper venom.
However, if you dot up 5-6 adds seperately, suddenly you're starting to get 6 focus a second.
Suddenly, the playstyle turns into one where the only thing you do is throw out instants - no more Cobra shots. The regen you would otherwise get from Cobra is gained from the Viper Venom procs, and you are relying on them to be able to keep throwing out damage. If there's only one target, it's exactly as it is now - the more secondary targets you can keep SS rolling on, the less you have to care about cobra shot, basicly.

I'm fine with not being multi-dot class or spec, but scaling is whats bothers me... our secondary stats value is low which makes us underperforming even in a single target fights (as SV)

[Tehterokkar]

I'm fine with not being multi-dot class or spec, but scaling is whats bothers me... our secondary stats value is low which makes us underperforming even in a single target fights (as SV)

And the reason SV sucks for scaling because we don't have said niches(at all for that matter)

Moonkins: [30% Chance on Moon/Sunfire crit to make Starsurge instant] And guess what stat they are stacking? CRIT!
Shadow Priests: [SW:Pain has a chance to make MB instant and reset CD] More Shadow Orbs = More Devouring Plague = More DPS
Warlocks: Multi-dotting = More resources = more time using Chaos Bolt/Haunt/Metamorphosis(More Imps also due to UVLS+Doom)
Mages: Only ones that don't have a Multi-dot niche, yet still do better than Hunters.

But 1 thing, 1 thing these all share in common is: DOTS SCALE WITH HASTE. They have a reason at some point to go "Oh, I can reach XXXX amount of haste, better get it for more dot ticks" if they so want(and they should, apart from Demo/Destro IIRC).

Hunters need a niche for SV if Blizzard wants SV to be the Multi-dot spec.

[Deleted]

And deterrence is now (with talent) on a 2 min cd once you've used your 2 charges which is a big nerf of the uptime...

[Kaeth]

I'm fine with not being multi-dot class or spec, but scaling is whats bothers me... our secondary stats value is low which makes us underperforming even in a single target fights (as SV)

And every AotH % buff compounds the problem by further boosting the weight of agility while doing nothing for secondary stats.

So oddly, every time they band-aid fix our "scaling" mid-tier, they compound the problem for the next one.

And deterrence is now (with talent) on a 2 min cd once you've used your 2 charges which is a big nerf of the uptime...

I love this one. Every time someone points out to GC that the Deterrence change is a nerf, his response is, "no, it's two uses every three minutes. It's a buff!" Like we don't know how friggin' charges work. One use every three minutes with a single bonus use at some point in the fight does not equal two charges every three minutes. At least that's what I learned in 3rd-grade math.

Tossing an obvious lie at the community in response to a valid complaint is a heck of a way to inspire faith in the development team.

[ATron52]

And every AotH % buff compounds the problem by further boosting the weight of agility while doing nothing for secondary stats.

So oddly, every time they band-aid fix our "scaling" mid-tier, they compound the problem for the next one.



I love this one. Every time someone points out to GC that the Deterrence change is a nerf, his response is, "no, it's two uses every three minutes. It's a buff!" Like we don't know how friggin' charges work. One use every three minutes with a single bonus use at some point in the fight does not equal two charges every three minutes. At least that's what I learned in 3rd-grade math.

Tossing an obvious lie at the community in response to a valid complaint is a heck of a way to inspire faith in the development team.

GC hasn't said anything about two charges every three minutes in many weeks. Quite the opposite actually:

Corvid ‏@Corvid31 13 Jul
@Ghostcrawler more hunter changes to come? Removing deterrence and adding charges to 2 abilities doesn't seem like an adequate compensation.

Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler 13 Jul
@Corvid31 We aren't necessarily trying to compensate them defensively. We think PvP hunters need nerfs.

It sucks, yes, especially since we're already short on survival cooldowns compared to most others. But, they think we need nerfs, so meh. I'll see what happens on the next few PTR builds they push through and see how we fare then.

[Dracodraco]

GC hasn't said anything about two charges every three minutes in many weeks. Quite the opposite actually:

It sucks, yes, especially since we're already short on survival cooldowns compared to most others. But, they think we need nerfs, so meh. I'll see what happens on the next few PTR builds they push through and see how we fare then.

To be fair, in their mind, we got a 10% magic dmg reduc added to camo with a glyph...... <.<