In general (and in principle, actually) I agree with you - the developers should never nerf fun, and that's what these changes are doing assuming mana returns aren't accounted for elsewhere. A couple of people on my realm have laughed it off with commentary like "I never use [utility spell] anyway, so who cares?" Personally, I think those maximising what their class can do should be rewarded, not punished for trying to play well.
I haven't played a great deal on my paladin this expansion, but in crap gear and replicating these nerfs, I'm ending up out of mana in less than a minute.
Ultimately, that's broken (in a bad way for once) and won't go live - the developers like what Sanctity of Battle does, it's the future of tanking anyway, and they won't make paladin tanks a liability.
In short, chillax. They'll retune the mana loss. The bigger issue is why they think they need to nerf Holy paladins when they're still being heavily outperformed.
I know what you're saying, but you're still not quite right; even warriors avoid dodge and parry. We're pretty much going for hit/expertise caps, then mastery and stamina. The new passive talent (Riposte) is not going to change that fact.
Well at least now on live, the Glyph of Battle Healer DOES already exclude the Paladin ? Or am I reading something wrong?
Patchnotes: (5.4): "Glyph of Battle Healer has been redesigned. The glyph now causes Seal of Insight to heal the most wounded raid or party member instead of the Paladin."
Glyph on live: http://www.wowhead.com/item=81956
"Using melee attacks while using Seal of Insight heals a nearby injured friendly target, excluding the Paladin, within 30 yards for 20% of damage dealt."
So at least in my understanding, the heal doesn't go already on myself, instead on someone else in my grp/raid.
I just tanked the dummy with Seal of Truth instead if Insight. 10 minutes fight, with use of everything on GCD, esp. Consec (4200 Mana) and Fist of Justice (2106 Mana). I fell to around 42k Mana and never went under it anyways. We do have some hidden Mana Reg, so no worry.
Grand Crusader kinda sucks when playing on a full haste build (like i do, since my main spec is Ret, so i use 2 Prot Set Items, rest is from my Ret Spec), but on the other hand, it wasn't that good anyways, only when tanking many adds who could be interrupted with the shield (Bats in front of Tortos, Cast-Adds in the Room of Dark Animus. We get a doubled chance to proc, but from another (less often happening) souce. So no real big game changer ..
Edit: yeah, just ready the tooltip ^^ and got the nerf. On live now: Glyph heals the raid with 20% of my melee hits WHILE SoI heals myself for almost 8k. On PTR => heal me (without Glyph) OR heal the Raid (with Glyph) when using SoI.
Fair enough; but even then, I think most warriors will probably look to find more stamina before bothering with dodge and parry. I could aim for the Critical Block cap in my current gear and not quite get there (and I'm not terribly geared), so without giving away all my stamina via hybrid gems and trinkets, I should be okay.
Well I do click them fast enough. One sec, i log out in my Prot Spec
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...dwars/advanced
I just tried it 5 min again, I never ever fall under 40k Mana.
Edit: Armory link in english ^^
One thing that should be noted about battle-healer is that it is the SoI ticks that the paladin currently get that will instead heal the raid. These are far higher than the current state battle-healer so if we glyph battle-healer we will now heal the raid more than before.
All our mana consumers:
Blinding Light: 4800
Hands: 4200
Consec: 4200
Avenger's Shield: 4200
Hand of Salvation: 3200
Judgement: 3000
Holy Wrath: 3000
Fist of Justice (Talent): 2106
Reckoning (Taunt): 2100
Div Protection: 2100
I tried it again while using Cons, Blinding Light, a Hand etc and never really went somewhere close to 50% (Using hands on CD does lower the manalevel, but only from 40k to 30k)
I also have the option enabled OnKeyPress and not OnKeyRelease.
So I really don't know how you ever get OOM in 30 sec.
Well using 2 rebuke, 2 reckonings, 1 divine prot and 1 speed of light I oom in under 30 seconds at only 40% haste.
Edit: New oom record, 24 seconds throwing in blinding light this time aswell. Still no cleanse, no hands etc
I really dont understand how you can not oom. Current mana regen is not even close to viable.
Last edited by mmoc4d8e5d065a; 2013-07-09 at 01:40 PM.
Okay, using rebuke + hands on CD ooms me too. I just forgot Rebuke, 7200 Mana :/
Well we'll see, i sincerely never use hands on CD and rebuke on CD as Prot (only Rebuke on CD on Council on Elders for Zul and the little Princess).
Still under normal tanking habits, i would'nt ever go OOM. When beeing OOM to exactly zero (using rebuke as soon as it is possible when beeing under 7000 Mana), i get 5% mana instant back.
Trouble with this is, we should never be unable to use our core abilities. If we are balanced around only keeping our rotation up but then suddenly a fight happens where we need to interupt and cleanse (for example) we wouldn't be able to sustain it.
Holy Power should be our resource, like Warriors rage, NOT mana.
I don't understand why they would want us to go for avoidance stats, Tanking is already pretty boring as it is, stand there let boss whack you taunt on debuff. The thing that makes Tanking fun for me, and I'm sure others as well is trying to take the least amount of dmg to progress the encounters while doing as much DPS as possible. If they move away from tanks doing DPS, que times will be a lot longer. I for one will stop tanking and im sure others will as well.
To apply some maths to that. I would have to do my rotation 30% slower to not go oom (not considering divine protection, rebuke, cleanse and hands)
That means I will spend 30% of my time being oom, doing nothing.
Every rebuke used another 3.8 seconds AFK.
Div prot / SoL used means another 1.16 seconds afk
Every cleanse another 5 seconds afk
Last edited by mmoc4d8e5d065a; 2013-07-09 at 01:57 PM.
With you on this. I have always hated Prot Paladin because of how sluggish it was. Being able to use Haste has made it way more fun than anything else I've played in this game.
I'm in the camp that is hoping for traditional tanking gear to disappear next expansion and move Warriors + DKs completely into DPS pieces with crit/haste +mastery on