5.4 Frost DW returns?

[Rashi]

Hi, So looking on a few of the fights, new trinkets and the new set bonuses could we hope for a frost DW spec return to be the best on the table?

Due to heave AOE burst with trinkets and cloaks or am I just retarded?


Rashi

[Raikh]

Frost in general scales terrible with gear, the new trinkets help little, cleave trinket is bullshit either way, crit trinket useless due to km proccs and not gaining stacks from hb so far I've tested, amplifier is somewhat okay but no rocket boost, since we scale badly with the stats, haste proc trinket is completely redundant and the cd reduction trinket might be okayish, but ultimately we have no very strong dmg cds, having those reduced will have a slim effect on our overall performance, especially because they already cost resources (army, pillar).

Frost still has decent cleave but honestly it makes in no way up for horrible single target dps and patchetic single target burst ouput it currently already has.
The 2set is okayish for dw and the 4set is minimal for dw, since the extra regen is not really needed, especially not in situation where you can soak with ams.

Looking only at boss mechanics frost would have the potential to perfrom good, similar to t14 where it was a good spec but in t14 we had a really good 2set bonus, and less overpowering thorugh gear scaling especially from casters and even at the end of t14 you could feel frost slowly falling behind in dps.
Additionally hb cleaves currently only for 50% of its main dmg, down from 80% back in t14.

All we can do is gibving feedback and suggestions for fixes and hope blizz does something for frost next tier. In its current state it won't get near the top, i don't even see a real chance of it outperforming unholy next tier, since uh scales better (still not really good) but it simply gets more out of stats and festerblight makes trinkets with short massive proccs like stacking trinkets (feather, the new crit trinket) somewhat valuable.

[Skarssen]

Hi, So looking on a few of the fights, new trinkets and the new set bonuses could we hope for a frost DW spec return to be the best on the table?

Due to heave AOE burst with trinkets and cloaks or am I just retarded?



Rashi

There is nothing wrong with DW right now, aside from the fact that frost just sucks overall. DW seems slightly lower on single target fights and slightly higher on multitarget, so.....working as intended I think. There are plenty of high ranking DW parses for all fights this tier; frost just sucks overall and there hasn't been any indication that Blizzard intends to fix it for 5.4.

[Soisoisoi]

I'm DW Frost right now it's "fine", I was 2H Frost but I got bored of messing around with cleave/Soul Reaper. Plus I felt like being lazy, and with DW I can HB spam.

[Deleted]

depends much on the bosses.
the 2p should be like 22% mastery, wich equals ~10% dmg. problem is just the slow duration so you will lose all stacks if you cant keep on anything for more than 7s -> massive dps loss.
plus the 4p isnt that good for dw frost, you will have enough haste to be gcd locked 24/7

[Gabbynator]

There is nothing wrong with DW right now, aside from the fact that frost just sucks overall. DW seems slightly lower on single target fights and slightly higher on multitarget, so.....working as intended I think. There are plenty of high ranking DW parses for all fights this tier; frost just sucks overall and there hasn't been any indication that Blizzard intends to fix it for 5.4.

show me a fight that dw frost beat moonkin dps for rank 1 difference.dk are hybrid and moonkin are hybrid also we should pull the same dps and tranq is little op than stupid amz for 1 tick

[Kronik85]

show me a fight that dw frost beat moonkin dps for rank 1 difference.dk are hybrid and moonkin are hybrid also we should pull the same dps and tranq is little op than stupid amz for 1 tick

I only feel the need the to say because someone just pulled this on me another thread not 10 minutes ago but......where in the hell do you get that Skarssen was saying DW Frost DK's were beating any ranged class at all?

What Skarssen said was that DW Frost and 2H Frost both suck equally atm, not that either spec was competitive this tier.

[Gabbynator]

anyway i prefer to play my warlock or mage and peak at 3m-6m dps at the beganning

[Skarssen]

Yeah I'd think it was pretty obvious that ranged DPS dominate every aspect of this game. I just meant that mechanistically, there is nothing wrong with DW and it really isn't any worse than 2h.....they both suck equally

[dude1197]

oh how i wish dw is gonna be revived in 5.4... my favorite play style, i just dont play it now cuz unholy is better in terms of dps

[fangless]

Why would DW return? Nothing has been changed to its playstyle, or Frost for that matter.

[Siegchalkk]

With the new trinkets in 5.4 anyway UH still is going to be alot better than DW frost.

[fangless]

Tried it this raid id, 549ilvl, all the gems/etc.

Garbage dps compared to basically everyone in our raid including some of our alts that are starting to get geared up. There just seems like no way to use all your runes fast enough with only single usage spells.

/shrug.

[Nangz]

Quite early to be throwing in the towel or even making big judgments. Only ones that could be made are if the encounter mechanics are beneficial to dw frost. The dps tuning pass clearly hasn't been made for everyone including us. Only adjustments have been playstyle, mechanics, and tier bonuses.

[Vintersol]

Why would DW return? Nothing has been changed to its playstyle, or Frost for that matter.

I think he means back from the bottom. ^^

[fangless]

Quite early to be throwing in the towel or even making big judgments. Only ones that could be made are if the encounter mechanics are beneficial to dw frost. The dps tuning pass clearly hasn't been made for everyone including us. Only adjustments have been playstyle, mechanics, and tier bonuses.

What fight style benefits dw then? Or I guess, doesn't support Unholy. Cause every fight in Throne is apparently not a dw fight, the numbers are just bad. I did 169k on Ra-den, and managed a #40 rank >_> Lei Shen I did worse, and got #80.

Stand and shoot, or add based, it doesn't really matter. DW's ae is worse than a bunch of classes (good thing it got nerfed), and their single target is just as bad.

[Nangz]

What fight style benefits dw then? Or I guess, doesn't support Unholy. Cause every fight in Throne is apparently not a dw fight, the numbers are just bad. I did 169k on Ra-den, and managed a #40 rank >_> Lei Shen I did worse, and got #80.

Stand and shoot, or add based, it doesn't really matter. DW's ae is worse than a bunch of classes (good thing it got nerfed), and their single target is just as bad.

Its amazing how a spec being tuned poorly and have selection bias can have such an impact on its perspective.

Frost, both 2h and dw, are amazing when burst is frequent and common, mobs to aoe are smaller and have less health, and have less opportunities for multi dotting.

Fights like Wind Lord heroic massivly favored dw frost compared to unholy. This fight in particular is interesting because on normal it is inverted. Longer aoe and a buff that has 100% uptime allowed for unholy to close the gap.

Its amazing how a fight like Stone Guards favored frost last tier, when a very similar fight in Council of Elders ( Less than 5 mobs stacked but for most of the fight) favors unholy, again, tuning.

Fights this tier that should favor frost if not for poor tuning or selection bias.

Jinrokh with frequent damage buff.
Council where cleave should trump aoe
Megaera with cooldowns up for every head and low health adds to burst on heroic
Jikun with low health adds to aoe and cds that should sync with every nutriment buff
Primordius lack of a pet helps when you have to kill your adds and passive cleave fluff. Unholy can actively fluff with cleave but plenty of ranking parses don't.
Raden is pure single target but has adds that need to be bursted down. Pillar of Frost should be amazing.

Festerblight has also caused an interesting development as a few fights that would normally favor frost, actually seem to favor unholy. ( Could just be tuning/selection bias).

My two favorites for this are the last 3 bosses on heroic:

Qon should favor frost since the aoe phase at the end is short enough that it can be done with cooldowns, however festerblight extension of diseases on the dogs as they fly away allows unholy to close the gap. Quite interesting.

Twins can perform festerblight and dot suen during phase 1. This allows for dots that continue ticking in phase 2. This favors unholy but what should favor frost is the adds that can be cleaved and bursted with cooldowns during and at the end of phase 1.

Lei Shen has frequent low health adds that can be bursted with cds however, people suggest the only dps that matters on this fight is in phase 3. Since unholy can roll powerful diseases from the start that last until phase 3, it became superior.

[fangless]

Should, the word of the day :P

I thought it would be a fun experiment to try, but it was basically a huge bust.

[Schizoide]

Quite a few fights mechanically favor DW over 2H frost, since it offers free cleave and ranged damage, but 2H is far enough ahead overall and on single-targets that most people don't bother.

Almost every fight mechanically favors Frost over Unholy, but in a very similar vein, Unholy is far enough ahead overall that again nobody uses it. If Unholy was nerfed another 5%, we'd all go Frost again.

[Deleted]

If Unholy was nerfed another 5%, we'd all go Frost again.

I'd just /cry and then go back to my rogue