When is Temporal Shield a poor choice?

[Fyz]

I typically use Ice Barrier but people seem to love TS so I'm going to give it a shot.

What I'd like to know is, when is it *not* the right choice?

[Deleted]

When you need to take a big hit which could kill you unless you shaved the top off, like an expired Matter Swap on HC Animus. Also on Tortos HC - if you have a full shield and use Ice Barrier, you wont lose the shield to Quake Stomp. Those two fights are the only ones I use IB on.

[mrgreenthump]

When you need to take a big hit which could kill you unless you shaved the top off, like an expired Matter Swap on HC Animus. Also on Tortos HC - if you have a full shield and use Ice Barrier, you wont lose the shield to Quake Stomp. Those two fights are the only ones I use IB on.

Pretty much, plus when there is a lot of small damage but spread out, it might be better to look abt IB or Flameglow, although in ToT, the only fight that you even need to consider that is Twins.

But you got to remember that if you can survive a large hit with TS, it will always end up infront unless you get another big hit right after, so TS ain't healing you up fast enough. Though in next patch TS gets a damage reduction baked into it, so it seems by far the best choice for any situation then..

[Kenbud]

IMO ice barrier should be used every fight. A 130k+ absorb beats a HoT because 90% of the time it's wasted healing due to healers seeing you dip and topping you back off in between the 3 seconds it takes for TS's initial tick after you take damage and 7 seconds till its last. But it's on the GCD so automatically some mages will dismiss it as inferior and a DPS loss.

[Kenbud]

???

Any good healer will have Temporal on their Grid/Vuhdoo/whatever, and will know they don't need to heal you as much and divert their attention to the rest of the raid. Temporal was mandatory for early Megaera when there was so much damage going out and you weren't guaranteed to be topped because everyone is taking a fuckload of damage, not just you.

Ice Barrier is good on plenty of fights for things like non-cooldowned Jolts, or soaking P2/P3 Static Shocks, as well as the things MattRas mentioned. However, with the 15% damage reduction next patch I think Temporal will be the best choice in every single situation, which is stupid.

Well I must not raid with very good healers then because 90% on the time, like i said, When i TS I'm topped before the HoT is over. I'm merely 11/13 so those last 2 heroics must be the ones that make good healers.

[Methusula]

I hate the argument that good healers will ignore you if they see TS up. It is ingrained and reflexive to toss heals on those that dip low. Not to mention as mrgreentump said, you could take another hit before TS has a chance to top you up.

[Deleted]

Also on Tortos HC - if you have a full shield and use Ice Barrier, you wont lose the shield to Quake Stomp.

if u use TS before the stomp hits u and instandly after u get new shild, u heal you shild to full by yourself (:

[Polarthief]

Qon Phase 2. Especially Heroic.

[Methusula]

if u use TS before the stomp hits u and instandly after u get new shild, u heal you shild to full by yourself (:

I never said what you quoted.

[vaccine]

I like it for Lei Shen HC. Other than that Temporal Shield seems to beat it out for me every time. I especially like it on Tortos where it fully tops your shield after every stomp which is handy. With the damage reduction next patch as well I'll probably never use IB again.

[Kenbud]

Maybe if you're mediocre you mindlessly react and heal anything and everything, but anybody competent will track cooldowns and buffs on their raid members. Two people are at 20%, do you heal the one in the Ice Block or the one without any damage reduction/immunities?

Dude you can go ahead and rationalize it all you want but the simple fact of the matter is that a vast majority of the time some, if not all, the healing will be over healing. Good healers react fast to low health, noticing buffs/debuffs comes second. And if being just above mediocre means healers are able to track all dps immunities and damage reduction, knowing when each individual is going to use what CD, assess how much healing each individual is going to need in what order based on the CDs used and then begin to heal whilst being carful not to heal over a mages Temporal Shield then my healed need some serious work. I'm guessing you're in Blood Legion or Method, because you are obviously one of the best healers in the world, so I just need your name so I can have my guildies direct their questions to you.

[Keoren]

I use TS during progression when the healing requirements come down to hps, there are big enough hits for TS to out-heal ice barrier and there aren't any massive burst damage abilities.
I use ice barrier during farm, during progression when there are burst abilities present, and/or when the healing requirements are low.

I also prefer TS on dps race encounters to save gcds.

[LET JIMMY RAID]

The three heroic fights I use TS on are Horridon for dire call, Ji'kun for quills, and Iron Qon. The timer on cosmic barrage doesn't quite line up with Ice Barrier or TS, so I ultimately went Flameglow since there's a lot of constant damage.

[Methusula]

Dude you can go ahead and rationalize it all you want but the simple fact of the matter is that a vast majority of the time some, if not all, the healing will be over healing. Good healers react fast to low health, noticing buffs/debuffs comes second. And if being just above mediocre means healers are able to track all dps immunities and damage reduction, knowing when each individual is going to use what CD, assess how much healing each individual is going to need in what order based on the CDs used and then begin to heal whilst being carful not to heal over a mages Temporal Shield then my healed need some serious work. I'm guessing you're in Blood Legion or Method, because you are obviously one of the best healers in the world, so I just need your name so I can have my guildies direct their questions to you.

I've watched plenty of Affinity's streams from Blood Legion. He plays like every healer and I see him healing Mages with TS up ALL THE TIME. Healing someone with TS up isn't always bad. Sorry but Boblet is just wrong. Trying to take the position of "you're bad if you heal Mages in TS" is laughable. But hey not the first time someone tried to win a debate with the "you're bad if you don't agree with me" BS. AS I said before and as Boblet conveniently ignored, popping TS does not make you immune to further damage. There are times where you will be low on health and very vulnerable. "Competent" healers won't allow this to be an issue.

[Pizza the Hutt]

Well I must not raid with very good healers then because 90% on the time, like i said, When i TS I'm topped before the HoT is over. I'm merely 11/13 so those last 2 heroics must be the ones that make good healers.

Tell your healers to put Temporal (and Cauterize if they're not already) on their raid frames and order them (not ask - ORDER) to heal other people first since you'll get it back anyway.

If they still heal you they're just meter padding and wasting mana.

- - - Updated - - -

I've watched plenty of Affinity's streams from Blood Legion. He plays like every healer and I see him healing Mages with TS up ALL THE TIME. Healing someone with TS up isn't always bad. Sorry but Boblet is just wrong. Trying to take the position of "you're bad if you heal Mages in TS" is laughable. But hey not the first time someone tried to win a debate with the "you're bad if you don't agree with me" BS. AS I said before and as Boblet conveniently ignored, popping TS does not make you immune to further damage. There are times where you will be low on health and very vulnerable. "Competent" healers won't allow this to be an issue.

I don't have a problem with healers healing someone with Temporal up. I just think they ought to prioritize the rest of the raid in that situation, since you're less likely to die because of the health you're about to get back. Your healers need to understand that and adjust accordingly.

And yes, if there's two people to heal and the mage has TS and the other dude has nothing, and Affinity is healing the mage first, then yes, Affinity is bad.

[Methusula]

And yes, if there's two people to heal and the mage has TS and the other dude has nothing, and Affinity is healing the mage first, then yes, Affinity is bad.

In this specific scenario, you would obviously heal the dude with nothing first. This is a bit of a strawman though since that was never my point. I said Affinity, along with other elite healers, will heal someone with TS up if they feel the need. It isn't as simple as "is TS up? Ok, I'll ignore him." Mechanics OFTEN dictate that heals are still necessary to keep someone from dying to a second large hit during the 4 second of TS.

[Polarthief]

And yes, if there's two people to heal and the mage has TS and the other dude has nothing, and Affinity is healing the mage first, then yes, Affinity is bad.

I'd say it kinda depends on the damage, both players health pools, and what the other player is.

Are we talking Shadow Priest/Boomkin/Ele Shaman who all have cooldowns/15% damage reduction (excluding Shaman)? In said scenario, I'd probably throw the Mage a quick heal first just to make sure further damage won't smash him because I'd know the others would be fine. If the other guy literally has nothing (not even passive reduction), then yeah, heal that guy first.

[Kenbud]

What's funny about this is I never once said anything about TS and the competency of the player using it. I said in my own personal opinion IB's benefits outweigh those of TS and stated why I have that opinion. I am rebutted with "ur bad, yur healers are bad", although I may not be a "top Mage" I am in fact a very good Mage and have many ranks to prove it (Kenbud @ Kil'Jaeden if you would like to check) and I also play with some very good healers so I believe my opinion has at least some weight. It come down to preference, try them both and if you are dying try the other

[MrExcelion]

Ice Barrier and Flameglow definitely have their niches, however Flameglow's definitely lost a lot of its potency with the 25% nerf due to PVP reasons. Ice Barrier especially is starting to scale really well. It's 132k base, but if I have trinket procs up it's easily boosted to 170-220k. Of course I really only take it if I have to due it costing a GCD. Ice Barrier has saved me many times on Lei Shen heroic.

With the buff coming to Temporal Shield to make it more PVP-attractive, I don't think there's going to be much of a debate on a lot of fights in 5.4. The 15% damage reduction is eating into the niche that IB held, upfront survivability for those big hits. We also won't be using double int proc trinkets like we do now to make IB scale like mad, but we'll see. Even on fights where TS might seem like an easy choice, Ice Barrier can definitely compensate for any healer shortcomings if you're not in a pure DPS mindset. Don't forget about healthstones too. Very powerful healing tool.

[Solidpat]

Well I must not raid with very good healers then because 90% on the time, like i said, When i TS I'm topped before the HoT is over. I'm merely 11/13 so those last 2 heroics must be the ones that make good healers.

That 11/13 boss thing made me laugh, good one. I completely agree with you on IB vs TS. Temporal shield is fun when you don't really care about the damage you take, since you don't waste your GDC in exchange of free heals. Besides, when I look at top mage parses, a lot of them don't even bother using it. I found that for progression IB was much better to help out healers.