Blood stat priority in 5.4 (10men Raids)

[Beefycake]

Title pretty much says it all.
If 5.4 came out tommorow with the current itteration of Riposte and SoB procing off dodge/parry do you think it would change from Haste and Mastery being much better for both defense and offense (In Haste's case) to Dodge/Parry being better then either stat?

[Tehterokkar]

Dodge/Parry will still be shit survivability-wise, and the DPS "gain" from Riposte is nowhere near Haste which also offers reliable survivability, althought Mastery still trumps it in Physical dmg fights.

Control > RNG

[Beefycake]

One for one Crit is a better DPS gain then Haste so basically if Riposte gives you 75% of your Dodge+Parry rating the question is this: Is 1 point of Haste better then 1 point of Dodge/Parry and 0.75 point Crit.

[Reniat]

avoidance is still better than haste for raw survivability. People hate avoidance because it's not fun, but mechanically it's actually more powerful now than it was in Cata because of the new DR curves. I've got about as much avoidance now going into the final (we think) tier as I did at the end of dragon soul, so the DR curves actually give us a bit more.

Also, crit and haste are roughly equal in terms of dps. The reason we stack haste as a dps tank is because it also boosts survival where crit does not, so you can thing of 1 point of dodge/parry as ~.75 points in haste in terms of dps, which greatly reduces the dps gain from a haste built relative to a full defensive build. Now, a haste build will still do more damage because even a full defensive build will prioritize mastery over avoidance, so even if riposte was 100% you would have less dps stats than a haste build, but the gain is still lessened relative to the defensive build, which is the goal.

[Beefycake]

Soooo basically nothing's changed except for scaling?

I will still go Mastery>Dodge/Parry at the begining of the tier and shift to more and more Haste as I get more and more geared during the tier? It's sounds really weird to me the more I think about it. Mastery>Dodge/Parry in terms of survivability and the way you make it out to be it's like 1Dodge/Parry<1Haste in term of DPS and pretty much > Haste in terms of defense.

What is Dodge/Parry's place in terms of stat priority? Since it's best at neither roll (Damage and defense) but it also has a large benefeit in both rolls... In what case will you prioritise Dodge/Parry if ever?

[Reniat]

Soooo basically nothing's changed except for scaling?

Correct. This just increases the damage of defensive builds, while the damage of offensive builds stays the same. You will not prioritize dodge/parry if you are making an offensive build, and you will not prioritize dodge/parry in a defensive build, because the suvival value of avoidance has not gone up due to the changes.

The only thing it might change is how tempting it is to go into an offensive build in the first place, since it's not as much of a gain anymore relative to the defensive build.

EDIT: although there is a chance we might prioritize dodge/parry over hit/exp in a defensive build again, though I haven't gotten around to doing the math on that yet. this is more of a QoL vs dmg vs survival thing.

[Scorned]

Don't overlook that Dodges/Parries will now provide Scent of Blood stacks. Depending on how this change is implemented, the defensive boost to Death Strike and the added RP generation may make avoidance overtake haste overall. The only disadvantage at that point would be the reliance on RNG.

[Beefycake]

Thanks for all the answers so far. One more thing I'm intrested in regarding stats..

Is Haste stacking only viable when overgearing the content or would it be a valid choice for me to go into 5.4's SoO Raid with 540+Ilevel stacking Haste? Other choices being balancing Haste with Mastery or going all out on Mastery.

[Reniat]

Thanks for all the answers so far. One more thing I'm intrested in regarding stats..

Is Haste stacking only viable when overgearing the content or would it be a valid choice for me to go into 5.4's SoO Raid with 540+Ilevel stacking Haste? Other choices being balancing Haste with Mastery or going all out on Mastery.

depends on you, your raid, how fast you push the content. Listen to your healers and watch your health, if you enter SoO and you get trucked or your healers complain (though you should talk to your healers about it BEFORE they complain) then tone down the dps a bit and raise the defense. I imagine that the high end 10H DKs will still stack haste for progression, but they also have high end healers and greatly need the DPS output to down content.

[Jackkernaut]

Whats your guidelines for haste stacking 10m HC i mean sacrificing what? stamina? mastery?
I can't find a stat i can give up ><

[Nillo]

Let's see:
1) You don't go for stamina anyway except horridon
2) There are plenty of avoidance pieces you can avoid using and get mastery/haste items instead (rep cloak/neck, jin'jokh belt, crafted boots...)
3) Once you're at a certain gear level it's easy to maintain a reasonable level of mastery/armor/stamina while reforging to haste.

[Tojara]

The SoB change makes avoidance a bit more attractive, but you can still get more SoB procs for prioritizing haste. Wearing DPS gear and prioritizing haste still gives plenty of avoidance anyway, as DPS trinkets are very good at giving large boosts to avoidance.

I'll have to wait for math on it but typically go for the best DPS you can produce in 10 man until your survival comes into question. If the maths proves that avoidance heavy builds from the riposte change gives more or less equal or slightly less damage, then you would be fairly dumb to forgo avoidance stats at that point.

When I start having problems with survival I'll look at changing my forges away from crit to mastery. Just keep going down your checklist away from DPS and into tanking stuff until you cease having problems. Tanking cloak, legendary meta, reforges, runeforge, gems and consumables are all things you can change if a DPS oriented spec style is causing problems.

Generally talk with your healers. If you're having problems living to where healers are going OOM or you need to add another healer then you need to change something. If they aren't going OOM and it looks like everything is possible, tell them to suck it up and play better. If you can get away with bringing more DPS you should try and do it!