The Blizzard Store and the Monthly Fee. What you need to realize.

[Elestia]

Your argument might make sense given any other MMO with less than 500k subs. WoW has seen over 10 million for about 6 years just as a rough estimate. 15*10 million plus additional revenues from the store, purchased expansion packs, in game services and mop subs? You're probably looking at the very least 200 million dollars in profit. Most games are lucky if they can sell a few hundred thousand copies at 60 dollars a box-- maybe one one-hundredth to at best ten one-hundredths the profit blizzard has made. The bottom line is that Blizzard is so obscenely rich from WoW and has given absolutely nothing back to its community and instead shamelessly panhandles for even more cash flow through its online store. As a business, does it make sense to do this? Well yes. Even if they manage to piss off 90% of their customer base, they have enough money to develop thousands of games, and the 10% remaining is more than enough people to maintain. Should principles count? Yes absolutely they should. Is Blizzard doing the right thing? No. Not as long as people are feeling exploited. Not only that, if Blizz actually did give back, that only instills better confidence in an already over-sized consumer base. Back in the days when Blizzard was legendary quality in terms of a company people were very positive and on their side so to speak. After almost a decade of being used, I sense a lot of players are essentially waiting for what's coming to them. Imo I wish Blizzard would get back to running their PR train and grow the company even more. I want to see more people enjoying their games, and would love to see Blizz take a lead in growing not just the community of their games but also a role in esports, perhaps even getting air time in the US. With the resources they have, there's a lot they could and should already be doing for gaming, rather than reaping the cash from their supporters without a second thought.

[Boogums]

It would seem that you are the only losing their shit here.

I lost my shit a long time ago.

If they are not pocketing the money how do they have $4.6 billion in cash sitting in the bank?

Probably the dumbest thing I've read all day.

*clears throat* IF THEY WERE POCKETING IT, THEY'D HAVE NOTHING IN THE BANK AND IT WOULD BE IN THE BANKS OF THOSE POCKETING IT.

Having money in the bank is for when shit starts to hit them financially and they need something to fall back on instead of, you know, going out of business.

I paid £19.99 for both TBC and Wrath both of which I bought from a shop I bought Cata and MOP direct from Blizzard, which meant all of the money was going to them, for £29.99 each. So certainly in the UK the price for expansion has increased dramatically.

I don't know moonspeak money. I'm talking about this American corporation and it's American prices.

- - - Updated - - -

Hopefully you're clever enough then to realize that my comment was made against the non-sarcastic interpretation of 'we owe Blizzard money' instead of taking it personal.

Hopefully you're clever enough to realize that purposefully misunderstanding a comment to make an irrelevant point doesn't contribute to the discussion.

[zaxlor]

I don't think YOU'RE very clever because you missed the part where I explained that I was being sarcastic with that comment.

Where'd you explain that?

From your last few posts you seem to think that Blizzard putting in a cash-shop is a good idea and no-one should complain.

I'll still stick with my stance that paying for an item, then having to pay again just to use that item is a shitty system. Or at least, I think it's a shitty system and not one I'm willing to sign up to. I'm not okay with systems like XBox Live, but I am with PSN as even though both are a wall that you need to climb in order to get online (not currently with PS3 but soon with the PS4), at least Sony has a big table of goodies for you to play with once you're over that wall.

If Blizzard wants me to buy items from the cash-shop, don't put a wall up in front of those items. If they want me to subscribe, then put something extra other than just the ability to play a game I've already paid for (the box cost of the exspansion), to keep me paying.

If people don't mind paying £9 a month to use their £15 item then so be it. I'll not be one of those people though and I hope that many more people will also follow suit.

[roahn the warlock]

I don't blame blizzard (Entirely) I blame the player base. No ones fault but their own for what happened to WoW.
Granted, Blizzard used to not give a shit what people asked for, and did what they wanted to do. (As artists)

[Duster505]

Im clever enough to realise that Roflifier is not talking logic here. Thats enough to just ignore any of his childish arguments.

Blizzard is a corporate business. But that does not mean the can do whatever they want thinking that will have no effect on the player base. Obviously Roflifier thinks thats the case. But hes probably the only person in the world that thinks like that.

[Deleted]

It is going to be great when the new character models come to the store.

[Boogums]

Where'd you explain that?

From your last few posts you seem to think that Blizzard putting in a cash-shop is a good idea and no-one should complain.

Post 759

I'll still stick with my stance that paying for an item, then having to pay again just to use that item is a shitty system. Or at least, I think it's a shitty system and not one I'm willing to sign up to. I'm not okay with systems like XBox Live, but I am with PSN as even though both are a wall that you need to climb in order to get online (not currently with PS3 but soon with the PS4), at least Sony has a big table of goodies for you to play with once you're over that wall.

Paying for WoW doesn't give you the rights to the items inside of it. Otherwise they'd all be given to you when you created your character.
Paying for WoW doesn't give you the rights to the Pet Store items, so there is no "paying again to use them." If you don't like cash shops, that's fine. Don't use them.

If Blizzard wants me to buy items from the cash-shop, don't put a wall up in front of those items. If they want me to subscribe, then put something extra other than just the ability to play a game I've already paid for (the box cost of the exspansion), to keep me paying.

They've been doing that for, literally, years: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/patch-notes/

If people don't mind paying £9 a month to use their £15 item then so be it. I'll not be one of those people though and I hope that many more people will also follow suit.

KAY!

[Duster505]

If people don't mind paying £9 a month to use their £15 item then so be it. I'll not be one of those people though and I hope that many more people will also follow suit.

I will be one of those not supporting such practices from any company. Be that Blizzard or any other. The day I will see a sub based game with INGAME cash shop... I will walk away from that game and never turn back. And thats final word from me.

[Pann]

Probably the dumbest thing I've read all day.

I can see that proof reading is not one of your strong points so I guess you could be right.

*clears throat* IF THEY WERE POCKETING IT, THEY'D HAVE NOTHING IN THE BANK AND IT WOULD BE IN THE BANKS OF THOSE POCKETING IT.

Having money in the bank is for when shit starts to hit them financially and they need something to fall back on instead of, you know, going out of business.

Ah, when you were talking about "pocketing" the money you were actually talking about stealing it and not just failing to invest back into their product. Gotcha.

Surely continuing to produce a quality product and avoiding the shit hitting the fan is a better guarantee of being able to stay in business than failing to invest in the said product and then hoping you have enough in the bank.

I don't know moonspeak money. I'm talking about this American corporation and it's American prices.

Even without knowledge of "moonspeak" you must be able to tell that 29.99 is greater than 19.99?

[Boogums]

Im clever enough to realise that Roflifier is not talking logic here. Thats enough to just ignore any of his childish arguments.

What about what I said isn't logical. (Saying "that's illogical" doesn't make it illogical, you have to prove it's illogical.

Blizzard is a corporate business. But that does not mean the can do whatever they want thinking that will have no effect on the player base. Obviously Roflifier thinks thats the case. But hes probably the only person in the world that thinks like that.

Actually, being a corporation, they're free to make any decisions they want; and if they do make bad decisions, then they'll get reamed for it. I've yet to see someone give an actual legitimate reason why the cash shop is bad.

The most common one is "I don't want to pay more for something extra." Which is just greedy and petty.
The next most common one is "This means they'll sell actual gear on the cash shop next." Which is just doomsaying without ANY evidence to support it (whereas there is evidence to the contrary.)
Then we have, "This means all the in-game items will start to look like shit while they focus on making store items look awesome." Which is both subjective AND doesn't have any evidence to support it (the helmets look like shit fyi.)

[Duster505]

They've been doing that for, literally, years: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/patch-notes/

No - they have not been doing that for years. Web store items and Ingame cash store items are two very different things. If you can't see the difference then go back and read when Pardo said that outside resources should not be affecting the game. Web store items are not resources. They are items. Any currency that will be added to WOW and connected to real money IS a resource that will change the game for good. There is huge difference. But again - if you cant see it then I can see how you think paying sub and paying micro transaction in an ingame store is acceptable practice in the same game.

[Boogums]

Ah, when you were talking about "pocketing" the money you were actually talking about stealing it and not just failing to invest back into their product. Gotcha.

No, when I was talking about pocketing money, I was talking about POCKETING. THE. MONEY. (An example, since this is apparently a hard concept: giving ALL THAT 4+ BILLION to the execs in the form of bonuses, which is something they could do legally and would absolutely make them look greedy as shit); but afaik, taking your profit and reinvesting it doesn't count as "pocketing."

Surely continuing to produce a quality product and avoiding the shit hitting the fan is a better guarantee of being able to stay in business than failing to invest in the said product and then hoping you have enough in the bank.

Every kingdom falls and waivers. And then there's other bullshit that can happen in the corporate world that would fuck them over even harder if they didn't have that money in the bank.

Even without knowledge of "moonspeak" you must be able to tell that 29.99 is greater than 19.99?

I don't know, because I have no idea what the conversion from $ to pounds is in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, etc. I also have no idea WHEN you bought these games, nor do I have a source for their EU MSRP at launch. (Though if you have ACTUAL evidence, instead of anecdotal evidence, I'd love to see it )

- - - Updated - - -

No - they have not been doing that for years. Web store items and Ingame cash store items are two very different things. If you can't see the difference then go back and read when Pardo said that outside resources should not be affecting the game. Web store items are not resources. They are items. Any currency that will be added to WOW and connected to real money IS a resource that will change the game for good. There is huge difference. But again - if you cant see it then I can see how you think paying sub and paying micro transaction in an ingame store is acceptable practice in the same game.

You said, "If they want me to subscribe, then put something extra other than just the ability to play a game I've already paid for (the box cost of the exspansion), to keep me paying." Other than ALL THE EXTRA CONTENT THEY PUT INTO THE GAME. What other extra content do you want put into the game?

[Duster505]

You said, "If they want me to subscribe, then put something extra other than just the ability to play a game I've already paid for (the box cost of the exspansion), to keep me paying." Other than ALL THE EXTRA CONTENT THEY PUT INTO THE GAME. What other extra content do you want put into the game?

Would be interesting if you actually find a quote from me saying that. Cause I never did. Your just babling now to argue even tho you have no logic at all to argue about.

[Boogums]

Would be interesting if you actually find a quote from me saying that. Cause I never did. Your just babling now to argue even tho you have no logic at all to argue about.

Post 778: http://i.imgur.com/vQRDI4T.png

CHECK. MATE.

[Duster505]

Post 778: http://i.imgur.com/vQRDI4T.png

CHECK. MATE.

Thats Not my post - lol. Ever bothered to read the name ? Now you are just trying to derail this topic cause you know very well that you can not defend ingame cash shop and subscription fee in the same game. No one can. Cause it has never happened. NO company in the world has been so stupid to think that can work.

It will now work for Blizzard either. They can try to bring some sort of hybrid model. But charging sub and then selling stuff with extra currency in an ingame shop is just unethical in today's market. Not even SWTOR dares to prevent the players from login into the game to use items that they bought from the ingame cash shop.

[Haxlax]

It's hilarious how much QQ data mining causes, even if Blizzard have stated multiple times that it may not always be true.

In all seriousness, I honestly don't see what the problem is? Someone feel free to enlighten me.

It would be one thing if advantageous items can be bought in a real money store but the few things you can buy right now are vanity items like pets and mounts which won't give you an advantage anywhere at anytime except that yourself and a random level 35 hunter thinks you look cool riding that glowing dragon.

Blizzard decides to add EXP boost not to the US, not to EU but the ASIAN SERVERS that will be bought IN-GAME with in-game currency, not in the Blizzard store for real money.

Things work differently in Asia - Blizzard have decided to cater them more, mostly because of the ever-growing market of MMOs over there so they have to be careful not to lose their audience. If the majority will be positive to something over there, it will happen, whether it's in-game experience boosts or something else. Just look at the seperate lockout request that got granted over there.


I know it's most likely not going to happen but I'm hoping that one day, the loud and noisy people on these forums will one day man up.

[Boogums]

Thats Not my post - lol. Ever bothered to read the name ?

Touche, in that case, if they haven't been putting extra content into the game other than what comes with the boxed game and expansions, what do you call these patches with all this extra content (because to you, that's not extra content.)

[zaxlor]

Paying for WoW doesn't give you the rights to the items inside of it. Otherwise they'd all be given to you when you created your character. Paying for WoW doesn't give you the rights to the Pet Store items, so there is no "paying again to use them." If you don't like cash shops, that's fine. Don't use them.

Buying WoW, the box copy, should work just like any other game. WoW somehow "gets away with it" because you have to play it online. I don't think that the second I make a character on WoW it should instantly be level 90 and have full epics, much the same that I don't think any character in Skyrim should be level 81 and have full Dragonbone armour.

What I do expect, is to be able to play that game when ever I want, since I've already paid for it. I can't even think of a comparable situation where another game litterally only gives you log-in access based upon your purchase of it. It's why the decline of sub based games is on the rise, as no-one wants to pay £X amount for a game, then be told they've got to keep paying more to play with the game they already paid for.

It shouldn't matter that it's "always online".

They've been doing that for, literally, years: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/patch-notes/

No, they've been using the money they made from selling the boxed game or digital download to pay for those. Didn't one of the Blues come out and say that ToT was being made after MoP had just released? As soon as one patch it out, the next is already well underway. Blizzard can get a rough idea of how many copies of an exspansion they're going to sell based on pre-orders, but they've got no idea for how long a player is going to subscribe for.

The cost of the box for MoP really should include all content they decide to make for MoP so long as it's relevant content. That, or my whole £9 a month needs to be spent on MoP content and only MoP content. Not on Diablo, not on Titan, not on Stracraft, only on the game i'm paying for. Else you get into things like Dragon Soul happening where they'd clearly siphoned WoW funds off into other projects and you're left with a tottally lack-luster raid.

You also end up with that £9 a month being spent on projects that might not even see the light of day (see Titan) and being "wasted".

I've said in other threads I don't really like the idea of splitting up content or players behind different DLC brackets, but I'd much sooner just pay £35 to play MoP with it's original content whenever I wanted with no subscription, with the option to buy raids/dungeons/other stuff later on.

If you're going to use content patches as the justification for subscribing to WoW though, then why the hell do they even need a cash shop? Shouldn't the raids, battlegrounds, dailys, quest-hubs and anything else that gets added with a content patch be more than enough? Like I've said before, every single item that is added to the cash-shop is an item that could have been added into the game via your subscrition fee. The more items get added into the cash-shop, the less your subscription is valued by Blizzard.

[Boogums]

Blizzard decides to add EXP boost not to the US, not to EU but the ASIAN SERVERS that will be bought IN-GAME, not in the Blizzard store..

A. The Asian market already has a much different price model than the NA and EU, and there are other games that offer "power" related microtransactions in the game for the Asian localizations but not NA or EU.

B. They may be purchased in-game, but they're still purchased with real money.

[Pann]

No, when I was talking about pocketing money, i was talking about giving the money to execs in the form of bonuses, which is something they could do legally and would absolutely make them look greedy as shit; but afaik, taking your profit and reinvesting it doesn't count as "pocketing."

Rewarding their employees, albeit very, very handsomely, would make them look greedy but keeping the money does not? If they were reinvesting it they would not still have it in cash.

Every kingdom falls and waivers. And then there's other bullshit that can happen in the corporate world that would fuck them over even harder if they didn't have that money in the bank.

Whilst we cannot say for certain but perhaps if Blizzard had not managed to lose a third of their customer base in the space of two years, with further loses expected, then maybe Vivendi would be more keen on retaining ownership of ATVI or there might have been a buyer forth coming when they decided they wanted to sell.

I don't know, because I have no idea what the conversion from $ to pounds is in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, etc. I also have no idea WHEN you bought these games, nor do I have a source for their EU MSRP at launch. (Though if you have ACTUAL evidence, instead of anecdotal evidence, I'd love to see it )

Why do you need the conversion rate? 29.99 is 50% greater than 19.99 do you think that inflation is high enough to account for such a rise? I bought TBC shortly after it was released and Wrath at midnight the day it was released, these are the actual rather than anecdotal prices I paid although I do believe that Wrath had a RRP of £24.99 but most shops sold it at £19.99 and still managed to make a profit. Thus the £29.99 Blizzard received, for Cata and MOP, less bandwidth costs is much higher than the £19.99 less box and DVD production, physical distribution, point of sale, the shop's profit margin, etc it received from Wrath and TBC.