Maybe it's "our" fault the Blizzard Store exist ...

[Duster505]

That is one big IF.



On order for it to have moved, it would have to have:

a) existed in the game without the need for a microtransaction.
B) no longer be available in game except by means of a microtransaction.

The cosmetic items you refer to never existed in the game before. Nothing that was in the game has been removed in lieu of these items. So no, nothing is being moved away from what you get with your subscription.



Except for TCG items...



You can still get 99.9% of the "content" with your subscription. In theory of course. In practise most people never get even close to that amount of "content" because there simply aren't enough hours in the week.



See my previous statement. Paying more makes an almost negligible difference to the difference in the "completeness" of your game. If you the one guy who has earned every achievement, mount and pet, obtained every item of transmog gear, then yes, that person has a right to feel hard done by.



No one is "making" you pay twice for "content". You have a very easy option to simply ignore this purely optional "content", and I promise you it won't detract in the slightest from your gaming experience.



Because that's the way it always has been....



It has been done. By WoW. And as long as people are prepared to buy it, it will continue to be done. Until such a time as someone can come up with a convincing argument that shows how people are being forced to use the store in order to get a fair gaming experience, I see absolutely no problem with this approach.

There will always be people who want the latest fad. Those people will always be parted with their money, whether it's Blizzard or someone else makes no difference. The attraction is not about value. It's about showing off. And these people get some sense of satisfaction out of doing so. It's like a kid showing off his latest toy to his friends.

Honestly, the store satiates a desire of some people. If you have that burning desire, you'll like the fact that the store exists. If you don't have that burning desire it doesn't affect you. It's that simple.

Nothing you said there justifies both subscription and ingame cash shop. Cause nothing ever will. There will be ppl out there that find it ok. But there will also be ppl out there that wont find it ok. You are not the person that decides how ppl will take this.

But as Rob Pardo said in 2008. There will be ppl out there that will feel betrayed seeing this double pay wall model. They have every right to. So stop acting like they dont.

[Keashaa]

WoW is already pay2win. You can buy in-game items with money from blizzard and sell them for gold in-game. Use the gold for BoE-items or BMAH.
And no, I'm not a hater. Just wanted to remind about that fact.

[Raelbo]

Well... Im not. Cause I already pay enough IMO.

So your solution simple: Don't buy stuff off the Blizzard store.

The real question is.... how many ppl will Blizzard loose as subscribers if they are gonna have both Sub based and ingame cash shop.

That depends on how mandatory it feels to spend money on the store. As things stand at the moment, as has always been the case, there is nothing which anyone needs to buy from the store in order to enjoy the game. Those who opt not to buy stuff from the store are basically unaffected, unless not having, for example, a sparkle pony is a big deal for them.

Yes, there will be those who quit wow claiming this was the final straw. In all likelihood almost all of those players were probably on the verge of leaving anway. Seriously, if someone quits WoW purely over this issue, I would just shake my head. It'd be like refusing to eat at your favourite restaurant because of the existence of a new item on their menu that you don't like, even though your favourite meal is still there, for the same price, unchanged.

And how many new potential players will not even look at WOW knowing it has such a model.

That depends on whose opinion they choose to follow when deciding whether to join up or not. If someone is given the false impression that you need to buy a whole lot of stuff from the store in order to enjoy WoW, then yes this could be a deterrent. It doesn't mean the store is to blame. The blame then would lie on all the irrational people who are kicking up a storm in a teacup over what really should be a non-issue.

[Duster505]

They have been selling pets and mounts, as well as race changes, faction changes, server transfers for years now. But lets all board to "OMG THIS IS ALL NEW AND OBVIOUSLY THE END" train.

Yes - it will be end for many subscribers seeing ingame cash shop in WOW. Like it or not. Former actions from Blizzard do not justify ingame cash shop. There is a big difference for many ppl to be greeted with cash shop rather than have to go to Blizzard store. So dont act like everyone is perfectly fine with this. The question is... how many are not. And how many new potential players will just skip WOW and go play another cash shop game that does not have box price + expansion fees + sub on top of their subscription. Get a clue... many will not even have a second thought about skipping WOW with that model.

[Deleted]

Why remove something that people obviously like?

[Deleted]

So bizarre how people who "don't care" about items in the cash shop are so adamant about defending Blizzard.

According to Blizzard: if they're not complaining then they don't care and are happy.
So why don't you all just do the same?

Well it's also funny how people can spend so much of their time "hating" on something that will barely have any effect (if at all) on them/their game time.

I don't play WoW anymore but even if I did, this would not have any impact on my gaming experience, regardless if I agree with its concept or not.

[Duster505]

So your solution simple: Don't buy stuff off the Blizzard store.



That depends on how mandatory it feels to spend money on the store. As things stand at the moment, as has always been the case, there is nothing which anyone needs to buy from the store in order to enjoy the game. Those who opt not to buy stuff from the store are basically unaffected, unless not having, for example, a sparkle pony is a big deal for them.

Yes, there will be those who quit wow claiming this was the final straw. In all likelihood almost all of those players were probably on the verge of leaving anway. Seriously, if someone quits WoW purely over this issue, I would just shake my head. It'd be like refusing to eat at your favourite restaurant because of the existence of a new item on their menu that you don't like, even though your favourite meal is still there, for the same price, unchanged.



That depends on whose opinion they choose to follow when deciding whether to join up or not. If someone is given the false impression that you need to buy a whole lot of stuff from the store in order to enjoy WoW, then yes this could be a deterrent. It doesn't mean the store is to blame. The blame then would lie on all the irrational people who are kicking up a storm in a teacup over what really should be a non-issue.

I have another option than not just buying stuff from the store. I have the option to not pay the sub in the first place.

How mandatory it is to buy stuff doesn't matter. Its ALREADY mandatory to buy the sub. There is not a single in game cash shop game that charges players sub fee and then has in game cash shop as well. Those games have the decency to let the in game chash shop pay for the service of using those items... whenever they want. Thats just a fact that you or Blizzard can not ignore. Consumers have every right to demand BLizzard doing the same if they add in game cash shop.

And Mister...it does NOT matter how mandatory the store is IF players are asked to first pay for the box + the expansions + sub. There is not a SINGLE game out there today that has mandatory clause that you have to buy and item in the store before login in. Every person in the world can try out every game and just see how mandatory the ingame store is. Many of them allow for perfectly acceptable enjoyment for free and even have means of allowing players to change to ingame shop currency without spending money.

[Thelxi]

No, if anything I think that the western playerbase has delayed it for as long as possible.

[Deleted]

Yes - it will be end for many subscribers seeing ingame cash shop in WOW. Like it or not. Former actions from Blizzard do not justify ingame cash shop. There is a big difference for many ppl to be greeted with cash shop rather than have to go to Blizzard store. So dont act like everyone is perfectly fine with this. The question is... how many are not. And how many new potential players will just skip WOW and go play another cash shop game that does not have box price + expansion fees + sub on top of their subscription. Get a clue... many will not even have a second thought about skipping WOW with that model.

I think you are the one that needs to "get a clue". The ones crying over the store are the vocal minority, and they are so addicted to the game they won't quit. We see it all the time, lol, empty threats from pathetic little whiney kids /yawn.

[Duster505]

I think you are the one that needs to "get a clue". The ones crying over the store are the vocal minority, and they are so addicted to the game they won't quit. We see it all the time, lol, empty threats from pathetic little whiney kids /yawn.

Have fun in yet another ban m8. Reported.

[Mekh]

There is not a single in game cash shop game that charges players sub fee and then has in game cash shop as well.

Star Trek Online had it before going F2P and even now you can still subscribe for Gold status while at the same time having its cash shop. Inb4 moving goal posts.

[NathSB]

I'm sorry you just now discovered Blizzard is a company that is interested in making money.

Sure? I thought it was a non-profit charity!

[Deleted]

Have fun in yet another ban m8. Reported.

Doesn't negate the fact I am right, lol.

[Deleted]

[QUOTE=Raelbo;21773474]



Why? Try this analogy: Let's say you join a gym. You pay a monthly subscription to go. Does that entitle you to get unlimited free refreshments from their tuckshop?

buying those things at a gym costs since they actually exist, server transfers and faction swaps are all digital number, it costs blizzard little to nothing, so having the price tag it currently has is a joke.
and your analogy was shit.

[Duster505]

Star Trek Online had it before going F2P and even now you can still subscribe for Gold status while at the same time having its cash shop. Inb4 moving goal posts.

Subscription in Star Trek is not mandatory and is not required for you to log into the game. Stop the bull. The goal posts have been firmly in place.

[Raelbo]

Nothing you said there justifies both subscription and ingame cash shop.

The fact that it will make money for Blizzard, and the fact that a lot of players actually like the cash shop is more than sufficient justification for it. On top of that, I see no justification for blocking these features.

All I see is "I don't like the shop. I fear what it may turn into, and as a result I will boycott the game and encourage others to do so".

Given the uproar about this, Blizzard may well opt to can this idea. Personally I think it would be a sad day if they did, because it basically mean they capitulated to bully-boy tactics.

There will be ppl out there that find it ok. But there will also be ppl out there that wont find it ok. You are not the person that decides how ppl will take this.

You're right. I cannot dictate how people will react. There will always be people who react irrationally to any situation.

But as Rob Pardo said in 2008. There will be ppl out there that will feel betrayed seeing this double pay wall model. They have every right to. So stop acting like they dont.

Rob Pardo was clearly talking about a pay 2 win type of situation. I am guessing that at the time he hadn't yet recognised the potential for a cash shop. Things change. Just because he couldn't imagine back then a way to make the cash shop work without compromising on their core values doesn't mean it was or should forever have been impossible.

If people want to "feel betrayed" by the latest additions to the Blizzard Store, that is their right. If, however, they want to assert that their feelings are based on sound, rational and logical thinking on an open forum, they need to support that assertion with sound, rational and logical arguments or they can expect a sound, rational, and logical rebuttal.

[Chrno]

Are you seriously this dumb? I'm sorry, I rarely levy a direct insult at people here or anywhere else, but this forum topic is not only redundant (thanks for wasting forum space with even more worthless clutter), its completely stupid.

Blizzard is a COMPANY. Companies want to make money. Anyone who thinks that is immoral or evil or whatever is clueless. If it offends you that deeply, cancel your sub and go back to your fantasy world where companies don't need money to succeed.

The thing that strikes me as funny tho is the fact that Guild Wars 2 was hated because of the item shop (even tho it isn't P2W). Many people disliked it and stated it was a fail payment method. And now that blizzard is doing that it for some reason is all ok

[Duster505]

The fact that it will make money for Blizzard, and the fact that a lot of players actually like the cash shop is more than sufficient justification for it. On top of that, I see no justification for blocking these features.

All I see is "I don't like the shop. I fear what it may turn into, and as a result I will boycott the game and encourage others to do so".

Given the uproar about this, Blizzard may well opt to can this idea. Personally I think it would be a sad day if they did, because it basically mean they capitulated to bully-boy tactics.



You're right. I cannot dictate how people will react. There will always be people who react irrationally to any situation.



Rob Pardo was clearly talking about a pay 2 win type of situation. I am guessing that at the time he hadn't yet recognised the potential for a cash shop. Things change. Just because he couldn't imagine back then a way to make the cash shop work without compromising on their core values doesn't mean it was or should forever have been impossible.

If people want to "feel betrayed" by the latest additions to the Blizzard Store, that is their right. If, however, they want to assert that their feelings are based on sound, rational and logical thinking on an open forum, they need to support that assertion with sound, rational and logical arguments or they can expect a sound, rational, and logical rebuttal.

I think alot of players will base there final say on sound, rational and logical thinking. They see what other games are doing. And they will realise that paying for the box + expansions + sub on top of a cash shop is simply not acceptable business model. Be that current or former WOW players... or new potential players that actually have many games to choose from that only have cash shops and maybe optional subscription that does not prevent you from login into the game. Those games do not have other mandatory stuff as well.

[Raelbo]

buying those things at a gym costs since they actually exist, server transfers and faction swaps are all digital number, it costs blizzard little to nothing, so having the price tag it currently has is a joke.
and your analogy was shit.

Your inability to understand the analogy is not my failing.

As for the issue of server and faction transfers: These items are, and were never, about making money for Blizzard. They are grudge services that Blizzard provides because much though they don't want people to transfer (because it messes with faction balance and server balance which makes for a worse gaming experience) it's the lesser of two evils - the alternative being that people simply quit the game.

[Mekh]

Subscription in Star Trek is not mandatory and is not required for you to log into the game. Stop the bull. The goal posts have been firmly in place.

Star Trek Online had it before going F2P and even now you can still subscribe for Gold status while at the same time having its cash shop. Inb4 moving goal posts.

From Feb 2010 to Aug 2011, STO did have both a mandatory subscription and a cash shop.