Blizz Refusal to Buff Arms Single Target Under Questioning

[Baracuda]

Hmmm, this tunnels us into more rage using abilities like slam and HS which is a kind of bad thing for pvp since we get trained and sit in D stance most of the time. OP definitely needs its rage cost reduced though.

They need to balance arms from the stats to be honest, make haste and mastery do something better than they do now. Every time gear gets better we get worse. Ive already said buff mastery to 80% and make deep wounds ticks affected by haste.

Then the problem is D stance, not my suggestion. It's the same with Unholy/Frost DKs and Blood presence. It's not that Defensive Stance/Blood Presence are TOO good it's that the other options are too BAD! Give Battle/Berserker Stance the 10% dmg reduction they were supposed to get and someone with a clue about DKs can fix blood presence.

[Beefkow]

Also reduce Overpowers rage cost to 5 and make it hit for 100% weapon damage. Change Taste for Blood so that Mortal Strike only generates 1 overpower charge, stacking up to 3 times, and make each overpower reduce Mortal Strike's CD by 2 seconds.

Just noo... NO NO A THOUSAND TIMES!!

The ability hits like a wet noodle!! NO JOKE! (even if it crits, oh well?)

I'd rather they up the weapon dmg to 125% (or something higher) and keep the 10 rage cost.

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Maybe reduce the GCD of Slam... Thoughts?

If that happens, then whats the purpose of cleave and heroic strike?

[WarTV]

Arms in PVP is fine pretty much

i stopped reading right here.
do u consider us fools ?
or you based this on ur solo experience

[cFortyfive]

If that happens, then whats the purpose of cleave and heroic strike?

At least the former is pretty ripe for removal anyways.

[Darkfriend]

At least the former is pretty ripe for removal anyways.

Cleave has a purpose?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I haven't been into my Warrior as much as I like. I don't have many suggestions. Maybe make Overpower stronger despite me really hating TFB in it's current iteration.

[Bellatryxx]

Blizz won't fix something that isn't a problem. As far as Blizz is concerned, Arms is already viable in PVE in PVP, so it doesn't really need fixing. From what I can tell, as long as particular specs are not being completely sat in normal modes and have at least a few viable comps in 3s, they're viable by Blizz' definition and that's good enough. Is Arms as good as Fury or many other deeps specs in the game? Clearly, no. Is Arms good enough for Normal difficulty and good enough for 2k+ rating in the right comp? Certainly. Thus, viable.

Obviously, players and the devs have different definitions of "viable". Players want to play the spec they like and perform as well as the best given equal gear and skill. Blizz does not see this as a particularly high priority apparently. Will an Arms player ever beat an equally skilled and geared Fury player in dps? Probably not, and the discrepancy widens the higher the ilvl in question. Does Blizz care? Not really, or at least not enough to change it.

The only way to really fix the balance concerns of specs like Frost and Arms which are caught between pvp and pve is to simply have all moves do different things in pve and pvp. This would be a huge undertaking sure, but it would allow them to tweak specs as necessary for balance in one aspect of the game without negative ramifications on the other side. But of course the Devs have expressed repeatedly that they're pretty much never going to make such a change because they want pvp to be "organic" (whatever that means), and they don't want moves to be so different in pve and pvp that people have to learn their moves completely over.

Long story short, Arms is not the only spec stuck with consistently poor performance relative to other specs and it's just not going to be fixed because Blizz doesn't think it's a problem, or at least not a big enough problem that it's worth doing what's truly necessary to fix it.
Be thankful that you're getting any buffs at all lol. Blizz giveth and Blizz taketh away.

[Kaljurei]

I'd like you all to look at this thread once before you proceed with your next level of arguments. It focuses more on PvE than PvP, but it has valid arguments for both.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9377569640

[Heladys]

I'd like you all to look at this thread once before you proceed with your next level of arguments. It focuses more on PvE than PvP, but it has valid arguments for both.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9377569640

That is really great stuff thank your for pointing it out.

[Flaks]

Which is meaningless. What procs? What buffs/debuffs? How much PVP power. How much PVP resilience. What weapons.

Basically the best of what's available on PTR. Bladestorm without PvE trinkets but with PvP trinkets AND balls out burst cds (banner, reck, avatar, zerker rage/enrage) will not get you above 60k damage crit on a low-medium armor target; with cs up that goes up to about 75-80k. WITH PvE trinkets proc'd it goes quite a bit higher easily above 90k probably more in the 110k+ range. This is all with the recent bladestorm buff for arms.

Ice lance with PvE trinkets and NOTHING else, no mage 90 talent dps boost (which I believe happens to be their only burst cd directly effecting ice lance damage alone) nets 90k + HITS. I've been crit for 270k+. I've also been crit for 320k once when the mage utilized his level 90 talent. This was BEFORE the recent patches buffing ice lance damage.

[Sliske]

Which is meaningless. What procs? What buffs/debuffs? How much PVP power. How much PVP resilience. What weapons.

Well i'll use my brain since you don't feel like using your own to answer very simple questions.

It is PTR. Everyone is wearing full 522 pvp gear on the PTR. Shocker, i know. Self buffed. There, all your questions are answered. That was really hard, i'm sure you'd never of figured that one out yourself

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Basically the best of what's available on PTR. Bladestorm without PvE trinkets but with PvP trinkets AND balls out burst cds (banner, reck, avatar, zerker rage/enrage) will not get you above 60k damage crit on a low-medium armor target; with cs up that goes up to about 75-80k. WITH PvE trinkets proc'd it goes quite a bit higher easily above 90k probably more in the 110k+ range. This is all with the recent bladestorm buff for arms.

Wrong. 90k bladestorm crits are easily done self buffed on a target with CS up in full PVP gear with 1 pvp dps trinket, the other being an insignia. With the OP pve caster trinket 150k-180k is doable easily too.

[Beefkow]

Bladestorm hits hard, i am looking forward to playing my arms warriors next patch (seriously, rogues can still run away... its called evasion, sprint, etc).

[Sliske]

i stopped reading right here.
do u consider us fools ?
or you based this on ur solo experience

Take a wild guess whether i consider you a fool.

[Flaks]

Well i'll use my brain since you don't feel like using your own to answer very simple questions.

It is PTR. Everyone is wearing full 522 pvp gear on the PTR. Shocker, i know. Self buffed. There, all your questions are answered. That was really hard, i'm sure you'd never of figured that one out yourself

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Wrong. 90k bladestorm crits are easily done self buffed on a target with CS up in full PVP gear with 1 pvp dps trinket, the other being an insignia. With the OP pve caster trinket 150k-180k is doable easily too.

My my you're a pleasant person.

Let's meet up on PTR. Show me those 90k bladestorm ticks on even a mage with cs up because I told you the highest values I've seen. The PvE trinkets though could definitely cause a swing up in damage up to what you're saying so I won't argue that.

Also, I don't know what the hell you have to be smoking to think arms is fine in PvP. By any objective measure we're weak. We lack the tools to contend with other classes and are being replaced in our most popular comps such as kitty cleave and tsg where dks and rets are just flat out superior choices in every way. Even rogues are better off.

[Deleted]

Basically the best of what's available on PTR. Bladestorm without PvE trinkets but with PvP trinkets AND balls out burst cds (banner, reck, avatar, zerker rage/enrage) will not get you above 60k damage crit on a low-medium armor target; with cs up that goes up to about 75-80k. WITH PvE trinkets proc'd it goes quite a bit higher easily above 90k probably more in the 110k+ range. This is all with the recent bladestorm buff for arms.

Ice lance with PvE trinkets and NOTHING else, no mage 90 talent dps boost (which I believe happens to be their only burst cd directly effecting ice lance damage alone) nets 90k + HITS. I've been crit for 270k+. I've also been crit for 320k once when the mage utilized his level 90 talent. This was BEFORE the recent patches buffing ice lance damage.

Nah, the PvE trinkets make it tick for 185k. Tested it on the PTR myself. Just CS and pop cds and you'll easily crit 90k+ with Bladestorm. Have you actually been on the PTR by any chance? because you seem to think Warrios are weak, even with the fact they can pop a 40% damage reduction now WITHOUT having to equipped a shield, meaning they can burst and still do their damage. Also enrage regeneration heals a shit ton more now, and will probably see practically every Warrior using it, not to mention it's 1 minute cooldown.

[Deleted]

because you seem to think Warrios are weak, even with the fact they can pop a 40% damage reduction now WITHOUT having to equipped a shield, meaning they can burst and still do their damage .

Wasn't long ago (weeks?) that you couldn't pop shieldwall+recklessness as TANK, wont take long before its nerfed again.
Sure 30% isnt 50% but 40% dr with 30% crit chance, yeh, you heard it here first, nerfed in a couple weeks.

And no, it doesn't matter no other class has this restriction, warriors will get it once again lol.

[Flaks]

Nah, the PvE trinkets make it tick for 185k. Tested it on the PTR myself. Just CS and pop cds and you'll easily crit 90k+ with Bladestorm. Have you actually been on the PTR by any chance? because you seem to think Warrios are weak, even with the fact they can pop a 40% damage reduction now WITHOUT having to equipped a shield, meaning they can burst and still do their damage. Also enrage regeneration heals a shit ton more now, and will probably see practically every Warrior using it, not to mention it's 1 minute cooldown.

When you actually verse any other class you'll see that we ARE still exceptionally weak. Our "185k bladestorm ticks" (which I said are possible with the PvE trinkets) can and will be completely negated aaaand there goes our root break/cd stacking because every class has a very reliable way to counter it nevermind in team play where it's near impossible to set up while we're getting controlled/bursted.

The removal of the need for macros, while a buff, still leaves us abysmally behind other classes that are getting buffs while they were still miles ahead of arms last patch.

And I have yet to see anything higher than the numbers I've mentioned with cs on target with avatar banner trinket zerker rage and reck up through bladestorm. I can admit I'm the outlier if that's the numbers you folks are seeing but I haven't a clue why that is. Also, spam slam outdamages bladestorm anyways. Bladestorm's sole purpose is to make your target panic and blow cds, if you're managing to storm someone to death, all that means is they fucked up BAD.

You have to have played warrior for a very VERY long time against every single different spec and class to come to the realization that the only reason you're beating people is because they're playing badly. Every duel I win, every arena match, every bg encounter I can very clearly outline where the target went wrong and how there is literally nothing I could do if they had done those things right. THAT'S why I KNOW warriors are weak.

[maxalyss]

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If that happens, then whats the purpose of cleave and heroic strike?

If you knew anything about Arms you would never have even mentioned these 2 abilities.

[Darkfriend]

If you knew anything about Arms you would never have even mentioned these 2 abilities.

*Facepalm*

I can never take anything you say serious for this very reason.

You may not use it MUCH but you still use em.

[Buniboo]

I use heroic strike quite a bit.