View Poll Results: What do you think about this incident?

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  • The Dubai governemnt did the right thing

    32 5.61%
  • The woman did something wrong

    18 3.16%
  • Everyone involved did something wrong

    111 19.47%
  • The woman did nothing wrong, it was the Dubai government's fault

    409 71.75%
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  1. #461
    However, if you happen to be a morally corrupt cancerous virus on human civilization; then there's nothing stoping you from raping all the "whore dressed" females in Dubai.
    If the woman works in Dubai, I am pretty sure, she sticks to the dress code... Ordo muslims consider for example those dresses of Emirate Airlines flight attendants offensive?
    Last edited by josykay; 2013-07-18 at 05:21 PM.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by josykay View Post
    If the woman works in Dubai, I am pretty sure, she sticks to the dress code... Or consinder muslims for example those dresses of Emirate Airlines flight attendants offensive?
    Those hats they wear are pretty offensively ugly...
    Get a grip man! It's CHEESE!

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    I wouldn't say moving to Dubai was necessarily stupid. Drinking without whatever license the article described being needed was.

    And that kind of is victim blaming =P Not her fault she was raped, but her fault since she moved there...still blaming =P

    - - - Updated - - -



    Correct, but they certainly have said her situation is her fault for being in a country with stupid laws.
    And there's nothing wrong with pointing out that one is generally accountable for their own situation. We state that all the time, but when it comes to rape, everyone gets their panties in a bunch. It really is pathetic.

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    I
    Correct, but they certainly have said her situation is her fault for being in a country with stupid laws.
    I have to ask: Can't you at least pretend that you've read the arguments?
    What was said is: 'She could have avoided the situation by not going there.' This is NOT the same as saying 'it is her fault for being there.'
    If you think it IS the same, then the problem is with you not being able to grasp the complexity of this situation.

  5. #465
    Fluffy Kitten Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Not in a theocratic system, however. The 'laws' in a theocracy are held to be perfect, since they're believed to be the laws of a perfect being.
    The only way to change the law in a theocracy is to cause the theocracy itself to fall and give way to secularism.
    They do - while the wording may not change - the interpretation of that law shifts all the time (one could argue that having a highly variably interpretation of 'law' is not law at all, but that's a different matter). While they do lip service to many aspects of Shari'a Law, they don't enact punishment as it was written for pretty much anything anymore.

    By interpretting the law to be more progressive than it is written - they are changing how it is practiced - which is changing the law. From my understanding, the traditional interpretation for pre-marriagal sex is being stoned to death, while - if one of the men were married - she could also be classified an adulterer and instead be burned alive. A year in jail for being raped is, in their eyes, progressive - and I'm sure they get criticism in their country for not being more traditional in their verdict.

    Ours is a mad world.
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2013-07-18 at 05:41 PM.
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  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    They do - while the wording may not change - the interpretation of that law shifts all the time (one could argue that having a highly variably interpretation of 'law' is not law at all, but that's a different matter). While they do lip service to many aspects of Shari'a Law, they don't enact punishment as it was written for pretty much anything anymore.

    By interpretting the law to be more progressive than it is written - they are changing how it is practiced - which is changing the law. From my understanding, the traditional interpretation for pre-marriagal sex is being stoned to death, while - if one of the men were married - she could also be classified an adulterer and be burned alive. A year in jail for being raped is, in their eyes, progressive - and I'm sure they get criticism in their country for not being more traditional in their verdict.

    Ours is a mad world.
    That doesn't change the spirit of the law, which is mysoginistic to its core. What it changes is the severity of the punishment. That is all that it changes; the nature of the law remains the same since the law is considered to be divine.

    So a year in jail is not progressive at all. The qualitative implication that women are inferior in the eyes of the law remains the same. The only change is in quantity; the severity of the enacted punishment. Even if she had to pay a token dollar fine, the nature of the law remains the same; it is equally oppressive, and equally evil.

  7. #467
    Fluffy Kitten Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    That doesn't change the spirit of the law, which is mysoginistic to its core. What it changes is the severity of the punishment. That is all that it changes; the nature of the law remains the same since the law is considered to be divine.

    So a year in jail is not progressive at all. The qualitative implication that women are inferior in the eyes of the law remains the same. The only change is in quantity; the severity of the enacted punishment. Even if she had to pay a token dollar fine, the nature of the law remains the same; it is equally oppressive, and equally evil.
    Changing the way in which a law is practiced I think does change the spirit of it - if we lowered the penalty for murder to a fine comparable to a parking ticket - we as a society are saying that murder is as acceptable as parking for too long, or in the wrong place. The letter of the law is always an interpretation of its spirit - even within ourselves. We may extrapolate the spirit from an interpretation of the letter, but while a change in the letter may not change the spirit - a change in the interpretation does have some sway over the spirit (because it defines our perception and conversation to define the spirit).

    That's all esoteric and philosophic though. I agree that the spirit is fundamentally misogynistic and any blaming of the victim (largely or wholly in this case on gender) - is a spiritual implication of the law: and that spirit is oppressive and...I'm hesitant to say evil... but certainly 'not good'.
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  8. #468
    I don't understand why Dubai is even bothering with building itself up as a tourist attraction. If they don't change their laws, then the pool of countries with worthwhile tourists, both in terms of wealth and amount, will be very small. How many of you in this thread would risk going to Dubai? Why not some other country instead? That's a question everyone will have to ask themselves, and considering how brutally Dubai deals with non-Muslim tourists ignorant of their laws, I'm not sure how their tourist industry will ever thrive.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Changing the way in which a law is practiced I think does change the spirit of it - if we lowered the penalty for murder to a fine comparable to a parking ticket - we as a society are saying that murder is as acceptable as parking for too long, or in the wrong place. The letter of the law is always an interpretation of its spirit - even within ourselves. We may extrapolate the spirit from an interpretation of the letter, but while a change in the letter may not change the spirit - a change in the interpretation does have some sway over the spirit (because it defines our perception and conversation to define the spirit).
    I disagree, but I do so because I see each verdict as independent of non-related crimes in principal (not to be confused with practice). What I mean by that is that the spirit of the law either allows or condemns actions (or sometimes even identities, like gender and sexuality). The severity of the punishment itself is not an indication of whether or not the law allows for it or condemns it. The fact that punishment exists is evidence enough of the law condemning it.

    We don't need to compare quantitative difference for qualitatively different crimes, because that is not the issue here.

  10. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Changing the way in which a law is practiced I think does change the spirit of it - if we lowered the penalty for murder to a fine comparable to a parking ticket - we as a society are saying that murder is as acceptable as parking for too long, or in the wrong place. The letter of the law is always an interpretation of its spirit - even within ourselves. We may extrapolate the spirit from an interpretation of the letter, but while a change in the letter may not change the spirit - a change in the interpretation does have some sway over the spirit (because it defines our perception and conversation to define the spirit).

    That's all esoteric and philosophic though. I agree that the spirit is fundamentally misogynistic and any blaming of the victim (largely or wholly in this case on gender) - is a spiritual implication of the law: and that spirit is oppressive and...I'm hesitant to say evil... but certainly 'not good'.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...e-1862091.html

    But when she reported the alleged rape to police in the Middle Eastern state, she and her boyfriend were held for having sex outside marriage and illegal drinking outside licensed premises, the paper said.


    It is understood the couple have been bailed but are still in Dubai.
    *shrugs*

    Edit: The link above is from 2010 of course but it adds to silliness of laws and their police
    Last edited by Xarkan; 2013-07-18 at 06:45 PM.

  11. #471
    Meh. You live by the laws of the land you inhabit. So if anything, she is the only to blame. Should have known better.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    Meh. You live by the laws of the land you inhabit. So if anything, she is the only to blame. Should have known better.
    Yeah that'll teach her for planning on getting raped.

  13. #473
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    Meh. You live by the laws of the land you inhabit. So if anything, she is the only to blame. Should have known better.
    Remember your words the next time your mother, sister, girlfriend, a female friend of you, etc get raped on Dubai. And get jailed for it. Remember your words.

  14. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by trauma443 View Post
    Remember your words the next time your mother, sister, girlfriend, a female friend of you, etc get raped on Dubai. And get jailed for it. Remember your words.
    "the next time"

    Somehow i do not think he would say those words if he actually had known anyone that got raped in Dubai

    Also if it was his girl friend that got raped and he also was in Dubai he might get arrested too.

  15. #475
    Deleted
    Ah, Dubai - where women are considered expensive animals.

    -

    Yes, that post above was a big dig at Dubai - they execute people publicly by swords and hanging, practice cutting off limbs and stoning people.

    And yet we ignore all that, for cheap oil and gas - wonderful isn't it? We can preach all we like, but if we piss them off too much - they'll just refuse future contracts to supply certain country's we don't like.

    Hopefully someday change will occur there, but after reading that a large number of those posting on FB were arrested and jailed for BS charges - they're a long long way from bearing any semblance to a respectable place.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    They do - while the wording may not change - the interpretation of that law shifts all the time (one could argue that having a highly variably interpretation of 'law' is not law at all, but that's a different matter). While they do lip service to many aspects of Shari'a Law, they don't enact punishment as it was written for pretty much anything anymore.

    By interpretting the law to be more progressive than it is written - they are changing how it is practiced - which is changing the law. From my understanding, the traditional interpretation for pre-marriagal sex is being stoned to death, while - if one of the men were married - she could also be classified an adulterer and instead be burned alive. A year in jail for being raped is, in their eyes, progressive - and I'm sure they get criticism in their country for not being more traditional in their verdict.

    Ours is a mad world.
    I wouldn't be surprised if Tariq Ramadan would then propose a moratorium on punishing raped women, just to make it a little more absurd. Then, all the useful idiots would applaud in unison.

  17. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Yeah that'll teach her for planning on getting raped.
    It's not so much about the raping, that was horrible and not her fault at all. It's the whole coming forward about it that landed her in jail that she shouldn't have done and probably wouldn't have if she was more familiar with the archaic, piece of shit laws there. She didn't do anything wrong but it's not a wise choice to work in a backwards country. I would be terrified there.

  18. #478
    I agree, the ones in this thread blaming the victim have most likely either committed rape themselves in the past or have thought about it. You'd be surprised how common it is, and most don't get reported. Because of that they have a mentality like what is being displayed in this thread.

  19. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    I agree, the ones in this thread blaming the victim have most likely either committed rape themselves in the past or have thought about it. You'd be surprised how common it is, and most don't get reported. Because of that they have a mentality like what is being displayed in this thread.
    My brain just shrank and started to cry. Hasn't happened since I found out about the flat earth society.

    Just when I thought that the maximum levels of foolery, words being taken out of context, and illogical assumptions based on those words that were taken out of context on this thread have been reached, someone else comes to prove me wrong. Congratulations.
    Last edited by mmoc0f233d9eb1; 2013-07-18 at 09:28 PM.

  20. #480
    I have a feeling that very few people actually read one of the articles. She was in Dubai on a business trip and got raped by her colleague in her own hotel room. She was not walking around in some back alley in the middle of the night as some people here seem to assume. Seeing as she was just doing her job and could in no way, shape, or form have known that, out of all the people in Dubai, her colleague would rape her, I have no idea how any reasonably intelligent person could possibly believe that she was at fault in any way whatsoever. Did you really expect her to risk losing her job and ability to support herself because she refused to go to a country where there was a one in a million chance (probably less) of something going wrong based purely on the fact that she is a woman? And how the fuck has no one blamed her colleague for raping her AND getting her sentenced to prison at the same time? I don't understand how he's not even on the poll, because if there is anyone to blame, it's him.

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