[spoiler] Ghostcrawler confirms ridiculous Alliance outcome in 5.4

[Deleted]

So tell me, what are the Allaicne whining about now? Considering any notions of "taking back land" from the Horde pretty much crushes the Game and Lore Equilibrium?

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Ironic, considering the German Declaration o surrender happened before.

I guess yanks need to make it sound like AMERICA did all the heavy lifting in WW2, when they fought against a smaller and less well equipped nation.

I dont want your land back. I just want the alliance races to not be portrayed like puppets and morons, they sometimes arent even portraied for god's sake.

[Faroth]

Where do you get that from? It were the Night Elves who rebeled against Azshara, who banished the the Highbourne for their inability of abolishing use of magic and imprisoned Ilidan.
If that isn't a sign of morals, then what is? And it has nothing to do with WoW.

They were also considered savage and brutal and often attack first, ask questions later. They value the preservation of nature, vehemently abhor magic, and could have been developed to view the humans and other races as children. Hell, Avatar had the perfect line "You're like a baby! Making noise, don't know what to do!" There was plenty for them to be developed to have a totally different view than being "purple human hippies."

[Deleted]

Hehehehehehe

If Blizzard wrote REAL stories, we wouldn't even HAVE Warcraft III. The whole thing is stupid.

So it'll remain a terrible Warhammer rip off that as becoming more and more stupid as time progressed?

[Deleted]

So tell me, what are the Allaicne whining about now? Considering any notions of "taking back land" from the Horde pretty much crushes the Game and Lore Equilibrium?

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Ironic, considering the German Declaration o surrender happened before.

I guess yanks need to make it sound like AMERICA did all the heavy lifting in WW2, when they fought against a smaller and less well equipped nation.

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It's seems you don't understand the concept of a FORTRESS and a CITY.

As example Ogrimmar has a fucking Orphanage. Theramore had tanks parked everywhere.

And Orgrimmar's walls are made out of metal and spikes, actually, the whole orgrimmar is made out of that, plus it has like 5 demolishers parked in the back exit.
Oh yea. So lets get an orphanage in EVERY SINGLE military base, so they become immune to attacks. I like your logic there. Parentless child meat-shield. I like it.

[Deleted]

I dont want your land back. I just want the alliance races to not be portrayed like puppets and morons, they sometimes arent even portraied for god's sake.

Thats strange, you and all the other cryliance people seemed adamant to have something "taken" from the Horde.

What suddenly changed this tune?

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And Orgrimmar's walls are made out of metal and spikes, actually, the whole orgrimmar is made out of that, plus it has like 5 demolishers parked in the back exit.
Oh yea. So lets get an orphanage in EVERY SINGLE military base, so they become immune to attacks. I like your logic there. Parentless child meat-shield. I like it.

Clearly, you have no idea how Aesthetics do not meet the requirement for a Military base.

Ogrimmar has living areas for a large population, it has a huge civilian count. It has SOME Military yes, because it's a capital, but that doesn't not make it a total military target.

Theramore was a stronghold full of SOLDIERS first and foremost. No matter what sideays logic you try to pull doesn't excuse it for being a military target first and foremost.

[Deleted]

Thats strange, you and all the other cryliance people seemed adamant to have something "taken" from the Horde.

What suddenly changed this tune?

Well it would be cool to have an actual victory for once. But no, i just want the alliance to NOT be displayed as incompetent moronic idiots. The only guy who is not that is The Mr.Good Guy Reasonable Varian, the High King of the fucking Universe.

[Deleted]

The night elves should have been the Alliance equivalent to the Forsaken. The fringe group whose views of right/wrong actions are somewhat alien to the standard human views. They've been watered down to hippies way too much in WoW.

Oh so much agreement. Their hardline Orange/Blue morality should be confusing and terrifying. Let us not forget that they became sworn enemies of the Orcs in WCIII before knowing anything about them because they were cutting sacred wood they didn't know was sacred.

Nelf society is full blown, armed, theocratic, fundamentalism- it baffles me how so many WoW writers portray them as serene hippy folk. Such wasted potential.

"I'm not saying they need to become Nazi-like Fanatics, they just need to become Nazis!"

Hi, I'm composemail. You must be godwin?

So tell me, what are the Allaicne whining about now? Considering any notions of "taking back land" from the Horde pretty much crushes the Game and Lore Equilibrium?

What are you yammering on about? Your stance isn't even distinct; you think alliance taking back land violates lore, or you think it doesn't?

I was saying that the Alliance is too soft, and should get on their war horse for a change.

[Deleted]

They were also considered savage and brutal and often attack first, ask questions later. They value the preservation of nature, vehemently abhor magic, and could have been developed to view the humans and other races as children. Hell, Avatar had the perfect line "You're like a baby! Making noise, don't know what to do!" There was plenty for them to be developed to have a totally different view than being "purple human hippies."

So basically, you want Night Elves to go back to being Lead by Tyrande.

"I'm a retarded bitch who doesn't listen to a man connected to the spirits, Act like a pathetic child and then whine when he wants to do the wise and heroic thing."

[Deleted]

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Clearly, you have no idea how Aesthetics do not meet the requirement for a Military base.

Ogrimmar has living areas for a large population, it has a huge civilian count. It has SOME Military yes, because it's a capital, but that doesn't not make it a total military target.

Theramore was a stronghold full of SOLDIERS first and foremost. No matter what sideays logic you try to pull doesn't excuse it for being a military target first and foremost.

Uhh, lets pull WWII again...
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were also mostly cities with some militarry assets, didn't stop them from being nuked.

[Deleted]

Hi, I'm composemail. You must be godwin?

Ah, the Godwin fallacy, a Classic.

You do know Godwin's law is that as soon as Nazi's are mentioned in a discussion, the side that did not use the Nazi reference assumes it has won? It is not a get out of jail clause for retards such as you. Thank you kindly for being such a typical dumbass.


As for Yammering on about, I am talking about the Alliance whining that the Horde gained territory every time in these threads, when it was to balance out in lore and gameplay that the Horde was downright smaller than the Alliance since WotLK.

[Defengar]

She attacked the Orcs, it's no wonder they destroyed her city. "Listen, my child, they are monsters. If you punch them in the face, they will fight back; they're savages!"

I wasn't aware the humans punched first in either the first, or second war.

[Deleted]

Uhh, lets pull WWII again...
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were also mostly cities with some militarry assets, didn't stop them from being nuked.

And the ACTION to nuke them was a very black and evil thing.

The RESULTS however were for the greater good, making the whole ideal a very strange shade of Gray.

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I wasn't aware the humans punched first in either the first, or second war.

I had no idea you didn't play Warcraft 3.

[wych]

Ah, the Godwin fallacy, a Classic.

You do know Godwin's law is that as soon as Nazi's are mentioned in a discussion, the side that did not use the Nazi reference assumes it has won? It is not a get out of jail clause for retards such as you. Thank you kindly for being such a typical dumbass.


As for Yammering on about, I am talking about the Alliance whining that the Horde gained territory every time in these threads, when it was to balance out in lore and gameplay that the Horde was downright smaller than the Alliance since WotLK.

If Blizzard could not keep up with a progressive and changing war then they shouldn't have started this war.

The story just makes no sense for alliance coming out of SoO

[Deleted]

Ah, the Godwin fallacy, a Classic.

You do know Godwin's law is that as soon as Nazi's are mentioned in a discussion, the side that did not use the Nazi reference assumes it has won? It is not a get out of jail clause for retards such as you. Thank you kindly for being such a typical dumbass.


As for Yammering on about, I am talking about the Alliance whining that the Horde gained territory every time in these threads, when it was to balance out in lore and gameplay that the Horde was downright smaller than the Alliance since WotLK.

Calling people retards makes them think they have won the argument even more than the Godwin fallacy.

About Alliance losing teritorry, I dont mind losing territory, as long as im not displayed as a pathetic incompetent in the process, sure, i can lose some territory.

[Deleted]

Ah, the Godwin fallacy, a Classic.

You do know Godwin's law is that as soon as Nazi's are mentioned in a discussion, the side that did not use the Nazi reference assumes it has won? It is not a get out of jail clause for retards such as you. Thank you kindly for being such a typical dumbass.

Precisely, foolio; you mentioned nazis, I cite your drooling argument as irrelevant via godwin.

As for Yammering on about, I am talking about the Alliance whining that the Horde gained territory every time in these threads, when it was to balance out in lore and gameplay that the Horde was downright smaller than the Alliance since WotLK.

The Horde is better as a smaller, more radical and violent force; just as the Alliance is better as 'the establishment' of prosperous and long standing powerbrokers who can afford the luxury of moral superiority.

I wasn't aware the humans punched first in either the first, or second war.

Different Alliance, different Horde.

[Deleted]

Oh so much agreement. Their hardline Orange/Blue morality should be confusing and terrifying. Let us not forget that they became sworn enemies of the Orcs in WCIII before knowing anything about them because they were cutting sacred wood they didn't know was sacred.

Nelf society is full blown, armed, theocratic, fundamentalism- it baffles me how so many WoW writers portray them as serene hippy folk. Such wasted potential.

They also attacked them because they didn't know them, never encountered them and had a smell of curruption around them. They attacked the Humans because they didn't know them, never encountered them and worked together with the Orcs.
They never where a bunch of wild Savages attacking everyone and everything in their path just because. They lived peacefully with all kinds of forest animals (like Furbolgs) and races and keepers, which aren't really can't be called wild and savage. They were kind of racist, yes but they let everyone be in peace if they left them alone. I really think some have a wrong view about them.

[Deleted]

Precisely, foolio; you mentioned nazis, I cite your drooling argument as irrelevant via godwin.

Ah, a Failed Fallacy fallacy.

here is it so you can understand without being so pathetic at a discussion.

A) Stating someones argument is a fallacy doesn not mean you can brush it off, you need to prove why the fallacy makes their argument invalid, not purely by shouting it's a fallacy like a magic word.

B) Secondly, Godwin's Law is not a fallacy in of itself, it means the fault is on the person arguing AGAINST the Nazi reference. Saying "oops you used Nazi's I win the argument" is Godwin's law in effect. It means people ignore decent comparisons for the sake of "Nazi's are bad!" And thats in itself a fallacy in an argument.

C) you argument for the Horde to be a "Smaller, More radical and violent force" basically paints you off as some person who came into the game at Wrath of the Lich king level and forgot what the New Horde is about. It's a band of Brothers, a Warrior Kindred. But what Garrosh did has a heavy point, This Warrior Band ideaology kept the Orcs sat in stick huts doing nothing, they needed to modernize. Where Garrosh went wrong was he was too greedy, and forgot the spiritual side of the Horde itself. Seeing as you have a Blood Elf Avatar, I can assume you really can't grasp the Horde as a whole.

[Durandro]

Ogrimmar has living areas for a large population, it has a huge civilian count. It has SOME Military yes, because it's a capital, but that doesn't not make it a total military target.

Theramore was a stronghold full of SOLDIERS first and foremost. No matter what sideays logic you try to pull doesn't excuse it for being a military target first and foremost.

The ratio of soldier to civilian in Theramore and Ogrimmar are comparable. Theramore was smaller and had less soldiers.

Thus Ogrimmar is a legitimate military target for total annihilation. Or as illegitimate as Theramore. Can't have it both ways.

[Deleted]

They also attacked them because they didn't know them, never encountered them and had a smell of curruption around them. They attacked the Humans because they didn't know them, never encountered them and worked together with the Orcs.
They never where a bunch of wild Savages attacking everyone and everything in their path just because. They lived peacefully with all kinds of forest animals (like Furbolgs) and races and keepers, which aren't really can't be called wild and savage. They were kind of racist, yes but they let everyone be in peace if they left them alone. I really think some have a wrong view about them.

Are you kidding? They are a race of megalomaniacal nature fascists. The preisthood is the government. They are responsible for bringing the burning legion to Azeroth in the first place, they are responsible for the Naga, they are responsible for Satyrs too. Their civilisation or immortal 'caretakers' have fucked up more than anyone else.

And I love them. Their hubris, their peculiarly 'Lawful Neutral' approach to Druidism (where nature is treated as a garden for them to guide, weed, and shape), the fearsomeness in war.

The Kal'dorei are the biggest, baddest, most intimidating hypocrites in Azeroth, god help you if you accidentally cross them.

[Deleted]

The ratio of soldier to civilian in Theramore and Ogrimmar are comparable. Theramore was smaller and had less soldiers.

Thus Ogrimmar is a legitimate military target for total annihilation. Or as illegitimate as Theramore. Can't have it both ways.

Wow, so you basically never visted Theramore when it was around did you?

It had a Majority of Soldiers, Fleetsmen and a score of weapons around the majority of it's area, as well as a whole fleet of MILITARY Ships. It also held Northwatch and in Cataclysm pushed into southern durotar, Using it's OWN recources.

It was a Military stronghold, not a city.

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Are you kidding? They are a race of megalomaniacal nature fascists. The preisthood is the government. They are responsible for bringing the burning legion to Azeroth in the first place, they are responsible for the Naga, they are responsible for Satyrs too. Their civilisation or immortal 'caretakers' have fucked up more than anyone else.

And I love them. Their hubris, their peculiarly 'Lawful Neutral' approach to Druidism (where nature is treated as a garden for them to guide, weed, and shape), the fearsomeness in war.

The Kal'dorei are the biggest, baddest, most intimidating hypocrites in Azeroth, god help you if you accidentally cross them.

See, it's funny when you paint them like that, but in truth. They were a bunch of not so bright womenfolk lead by a stupid bitch Tyrande who saw herself as better than everyone, despite being a Military failure.