"Oh, they are nerfed on the PTR. QQ incoming."

[Kenai]

The system works!

Color me surprised! Possibly comprehensive stuff prior to a beta.

[Tarazet]

Nah, gnorridor is right.

At best, this will hurt lowbie MW Monks trying to gear up (and PvPers I guess, but MW is already pretty bad there).

I have a fresh 90 Mistweaver, and at that gear level, I stacked Spirit for one simple reason. In order to put out any kind of decent throughput, I frequently have to resort to extreme mana dumping. Of course I'll use Chi Wave for the free heals, but I still have to use ReM on cooldown, spam Soothing Mist on every GCD to generate enough chi, and spam Uplift. That runs me out of mana in 30 seconds or less, and that's using our best tools for raid-wide healing. Oh, but I can get it back if I stand perfectly still for the next 30 seconds channeling Mana Tea and don't heal anyone..

[Blur4stuff]

even a fresh 90 MW can setup a proper fistweave rotation and not go oom in under 5 mins. most fights won't go past that. when raiding you can do the same thing and by then you have enough spirit to cover any fight. fistweaving is the only thing that can run you oom. if you're just standing back and healing then there's zero reason to go oom. you have to be doing something wrong.

only thing i can think of is constantly spamming surging mist maybe. if your thoughtfully using all your tools then it just doesn't happen in my experience. whether it's ilvl 460 or 520.

[Deleted]

even a fresh 90 MW can setup a proper fistweave rotation and not go oom in under 5 mins. most fights won't go past that. when raiding you can do the same thing and by then you have enough spirit to cover any fight. fistweaving is the only thing that can run you oom. if you're just standing back and healing then there's zero reason to go oom. you have to be doing something wrong.

only thing i can think of is constantly spamming surging mist maybe. if your thoughtfully using all your tools then it just doesn't happen in my experience. whether it's ilvl 460 or 520.

No, no they cannot.

[Kenai]

I have a fresh 90 Mistweaver, and at that gear level, I stacked Spirit for one simple reason. In order to put out any kind of decent throughput, I frequently have to resort to extreme mana dumping. Of course I'll use Chi Wave for the free heals, but I still have to use ReM on cooldown, spam Soothing Mist on every GCD to generate enough chi, and spam Uplift. That runs me out of mana in 30 seconds or less, and that's using our best tools for raid-wide healing. Oh, but I can get it back if I stand perfectly still for the next 30 seconds channeling Mana Tea and don't heal anyone..

Yea I understand. The thing though is that that while MWer's spells that cost mana are extremely expensive, that leaves room to abuse the LMG window to make those formerly expensive spells completely free, and still get all the Chi they generate. So we effectively double dip on the already amazing proc, plus get our scaling mana regen mechanic from Crit, which is of course a lot more noticeable once you have raid-level gear on.

There are ways to make MWer want Spirit, but this wasn't it. Spirit has to work with the spec in some way outside passive regen.

[Tarazet]

even a fresh 90 MW can setup a proper fistweave rotation and not go oom in under 5 mins. most fights won't go past that. when raiding you can do the same thing and by then you have enough spirit to cover any fight. fistweaving is the only thing that can run you oom. if you're just standing back and healing then there's zero reason to go oom. you have to be doing something wrong.

only thing i can think of is constantly spamming surging mist maybe. if your thoughtfully using all your tools then it just doesn't happen in my experience. whether it's ilvl 460 or 520.

Fistweaving runs a fresh 90 out of mana very rapidly, unless you only use enough Jab/TP and EH/Jab/BK combos to keep Tiger Power and Serpent's Zeal up. And needless to say, with a sucky weapon, throughput isn't very good.

[Kenai]

Fistweaving runs a fresh 90 out of mana very rapidly, unless you only use enough Jab/TP and EH/Jab/BK combos to keep Tiger Power and Serpent's Zeal up. And needless to say, with a sucky weapon, throughput isn't very good.

And if you accidentally Jab x 2 (which a lot of new MW will do while learning) or need to use Surging to keep someone up...

[DeadmanWalking]

I wish they would fix the mana cost of a jab, I leveled a mistweaver for the fistweaving but then found out fistweaving doesn't work well after lvl 80.

[Kenai]

I wish they would fix the mana cost of a jab, I leveled a mistweaver for the fistweaving but then found out fistweaving doesn't work well after lvl 80.

It's actually really awesome for solo content/dailies and on most fights with a Boss +damage modifier, to name a few. But it's really gear dependent, moreso that something like Atonement from Disc. Also, it really doesn't work if your tank is also undergeared since the healing isn't going to compare to normal ranged healing in most situations that don't have +damage modifiers. It's kind of a "reward" for getting decent gear, helps make easier/gimmick fights go faster while still fulfilling your role.

[stormgust]

Yup, here is the link that shows that the nerf is canceled: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...ramifications/

That specific nerf. He's already indicating that there will be other nerfs to take its place ~~

[DirewolfX]

That specific nerf. He's already indicating that there will be other nerfs to take its place ~~

Hopefully the nerf is something like: Each stack of mana tea restores X% of your spirit in mana. Balance X% so that a target amount of spirit (say 12,000) is equal to 4% of current mana (also 12,000, which would make each stack 100% spirit). Change the secondary bonus of Ascension to increase mana returned from Mana Tea and Muscle Memory by 15% instead of increasing maximum mana by 15%.

Muscle Memory needs to be redesigned as well, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms...

[Deleted]

Hopefully the nerf is something like: Each stack of mana tea restores X% of your spirit in mana. Balance X% so that a target amount of spirit (say 12,000) is equal to 4% of current mana (also 12,000, which would make each stack 100% spirit). Change the secondary bonus of Ascension to increase mana returned from Mana Tea and Muscle Memory by 15% instead of increasing maximum mana by 15%.

Muscle Memory needs to be redesigned as well, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms...

Why would you nerf ascension further? The extra 45k mana to burn through is pretty much over half of it's worth.

[fps90]

I'm very happy Blizzard doesn't listen to the player base all the time.

I'm glad they saw just how damaging a change like this would be to our playstyle.

[Deleted]

Blizzards balancing : Lets nerf monks, so priests, druids and paladins have better mana regen. Oh wait.

They should nerf mana shield aswell, shamans have ridiculous amounts of mana to spend, especially if they take a lot of continuous damage aswell.

[Quarla]

I currently leveled another mistweaver this past weekend for my guild's alt run (holy pally was boring me to tears) and then when I first read about the 2% nerf this morning (I'm a little late coming on the boat I suppose) I was pretty horrified. Sure, my main would be fine with being geared with the LMG but my brand new monk? Uhh.. yaaah. Even if you ignore fistweaving entirely, on fights where there's a constant stream of damage, like say, Garalon LFR in 470 ilevel it made my poor little mana pool just cry just trying to keep up with damage. I mean sure, it's LFR and people are awful but that wasn't really my point. I couldn't imagine that nerf going through and not making new mistweavers want to quit because they'd have to stand there doing nothing 'cause they don't have the mana to even cast renewing on CD and soothing to keep that chi rolling in and thus generate tea stacks.

I mean, maybe it's just because I'm spoiled with my main and adjusting to a life with crappy spirit with no LMG is just not working out for me. I dunno. But I'm curious to see what precisely they're going to do to us to make us care about spirit again. I just hope it doesn't feel like they're completely changing key things about our class. Getting a tad tired of that every major patch but maybe I'm the only one. =/ I know it's a new class and all but there are some really glaring issues they seem to gloss over and focus on other random things. For the life of me I will not understand the mind of Blizz devs.

[apepi]

Yup, here is the link that shows that the nerf is canceled: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...ramifications/

At least someone has sense at blizzard.

(and PvPers I guess, but MW is already pretty bad there)

Why don't you kick a man while he is down?:/

Hopefully the nerf is something like: Each stack of mana tea restores X% of your spirit in mana. Balance X% so that a target amount of spirit (say 12,000) is equal to 4% of current mana (also 12,000, which would make each stack 100% spirit). Change the secondary bonus of Ascension to increase mana returned from Mana Tea and Muscle Memory by 15% instead of increasing maximum mana by 15%.

Muscle Memory needs to be redesigned as well, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms...

I have been against memory muscle from the being, it is a horrible mechanic. They need to make our melee abiltes be a type of dark chi, yet let jabs be free and give a bit of healing and a bit of damage. So then you will not have jab costing so much mana and people can not use it as a chi regeneration.

[Deleted]

We will see where this goes but 4% to 2% is pretty hard. And it is not like that other Heal classes have that much Spirit....

[Deleted]

Nerfing a spec because of the legendary meta gem doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

[DirewolfX]

Why would you nerf ascension further? The extra 45k mana to burn through is pretty much over half of it's worth.

I did some quick math, and if you use 2 stacks of mana tea every 20 seconds, over a 5 minute fight, Ascension will be a 54,000 gain in mana over not using Ascension. For longer fights or more frequent mana tea usage, that number grows. 45k extra max mana is by far the lesser benefit of Ascension, compared to the increased mana regeneration.

[Deleted]

I did some quick math, and if you use 2 stacks of mana tea every 20 seconds, over a 5 minute fight, Ascension will be a 54,000 gain in mana over not using Ascension. For longer fights or more frequent mana tea usage, that number grows. 45k extra max mana is by far the lesser benefit of Ascension, compared to the increased mana regeneration.

I wasn't being exact, but it makes no sense to take an already shit choice down a peg.