Looking Ahead: Guild Wars 2 in 2013

[Fencers]

Yeah, and if you're a PvPer, then you're the guy that DOES like green peppers, and gets the 1% of the pizza. Which typically we're actually fine with, but it gets old listening to the dude with 99% of the pizza say, "Maan this SUCKS, I'm gonna quit eating pizza because they only gave me 99%."

Probably should get 100% of your pizza with green peppers if that is what you like. I am not gonna eat it, NATCH. And it still won't be acceptable for my pizza to have green peppers on it- but certainly we are each entitled to the pizza we desire without having to suffer through green peppers or lack thereof.

[Kelimbror]

Or people could do the logical thing and quit worrying about what everyone else has on their pizza and eat their own dang pie. If you don't like your pizza, complain to the pizza place and find another place to order pizza from. Or go the incredible mile and make your own pizza. (yes, that metaphorical stipulation means exactly what you think it does)

[Fencers]

The issue isn't what someone else has on their pizza. It is that your pizza has that which you did not want or desire. And yes, I do support not ordering from or honoring a pizza vendor if your pizza is arriving with green peppers all the time.

Also, I am hungry.

[Meledelion]

The problem is that the pizza-place we're talking about is 100% better than it's competitors. The competitors burn the damn thing to coal and still put on yellow peppers instead of frigin green ones.

Since I like my pizza before it's turned into a fuel source I'm sort of "stuck" with the 1% green pepper option...

[draykorinee]

My wife likes fruit on her pizza, she never gets anything but pineapple and she hates pineapple, the world is very unfair.

[Kelimbror]

My wife likes fruit on her pizza, she never gets anything but pineapple and she hates pineapple, the world is very unfair.

Orly? http://allrecipes.com/recipe/fruit-pizza-i/

Also, I've now had lunch and won't be continuing the silly. To the point:

We all know there are people who play MMOs for specific lines of content. Traditionally, and primarily, MMOs are not a PvP genre. Sure the large percent of games might have PvP in them, but that doesn't make it a PvP genre...much like the majority of pizza having cheese doesn't make it a dairy product. (Ok, enough with the pizza)

It's understandable to enjoy an MMO's presentation, world, and aesthetic and then be unhappy with the way they developr your favorite content, but at some point you have to face reality. These are mmoRPGS. I only capitalized the important part. For the most part, this genre sticks to those formulas bred out of DnD and MUDs and all that. While it existed somewhat in those games, it has always been frowned upon as it breaks from what is centric to the thematic elements of design.

Namely these games are about building your character, not mindlessly slaying your foes. Most forms of PvP focused MMOs are divergent from popular and thus successful games. Naturally you aren't going to find a developer with all the required amounts of savvy and time to have these concepts equally balanced. Thus you are left with what you have, which is still a genre predominantly focused on PvE and probably always will be.

These are why pure PvP games like LoL and FPS games thrive in that role, as they are unique in providing development centered around that experience. To be colloquial, nerds and geeks by and large don't like conflict. Expecting anything to change is as fruitless as expecting a pizza you don't put in the oven to cook itself. (had to get one more)

[draykorinee]

Orly? http://allrecipes.com/recipe/fruit-pizza-i/

Holy moly that looks an abomination my wife would enjoy.

I like your geeks and nerds part, I hate conflict in MMOs I personally love PvE and playing together, I loved LoTR monster play, that was the only PvP I liked, because it wasn't this constant us v them.

[Fencers]

The problem is that the pizza-place we're talking about is 100% better than it's competitors. The competitors burn the damn thing to coal and still put on yellow peppers instead of frigin green ones.

Since I like my pizza before it's turned into a fuel source I'm sort of "stuck" with the 1% green pepper option...

Then you clearly are fine with getting some green peppers on your pizza occasionally. Though that doesn't change the core, perfectly valid issue; I do not want green peppers on my pizza. Not even on 0.1% of the pie.

It just so happens that GW2 is the type of pizza place where you might get green peppers on your desired peperoni only pizza sometimes.

There are two paths: deal with the occasional green pepper(s) or rightly admonish the pizza for having that which is not desired by the customer [a gp free pizza]. Natch, one is free to just stop buying pizza from such a place.

"100% better than competitors" [which is dubious in every way] doesn't account for much if I am getting pizza I did not want.

Also, yes. I am still hungry and keeping this pizza thing going because of it. I will eat a pizza tonight.

[Kelimbror]

Holy moly that looks an abomination my wife would enjoy.

They make all kinds...can even do cinnamon crust ones, etc.

I like your geeks and nerds part, I hate conflict in MMOs I personally love PvE and playing together, I loved LoTR monster play, that was the only PvP I liked, because it wasn't this constant us v them.

And I really don't either. In hindsight, and foresight, I should have never and will never create a character on a PvP server ever again. I just recently started playing Skyrim and my mind is blown at having that experience sans PvP. GW2 for the same reasons was thoroughly enjoyable as I'm not there for the excitement and danger of dealing with an arsehole.

Make the world dangerous, the monsters unpredictable, that's fine. They aren't programmed to maliciously hunt me down, then stand over my corpse making sure that I can't do anything productive during an evening. A level 50 bear isn't going to seek me out in my starting zone just because he's a jerk.

Even growing up I never wanted to play games with my friends/family competitively because it was much more enjoyable to play Co-Op. I feel the stress of competition removes a lot of my ability to perceive the world and be involved in it and it takes me out of the element the game was trying to create in the first place.

And let's be honest, there was nothing RPG like in having 100 people battling at Tarren Mill like a bunch of coked up monkies. Sure it was exciting for a lot of people, but it was also mostly ridiculous. Other people are free to disagree, but even if you try to explain through lore that these are people at war you aren't going to see large armies spontaneously battling over an irrelevant piece of land unless they are the two dumbest armies in all of history.

[draykorinee]

They make all kinds...can even do cinnamon crust ones, etc.

And I really don't either. In hindsight, and foresight, I should have never and will never create a character on a PvP server ever again. I just recently started playing Skyrim and my mind is blown at having that experience sans PvP. GW2 for the same reasons was thoroughly enjoyable as I'm not there for the excitement and danger of dealing with an arsehole.

Make the world dangerous, the monsters unpredictable, that's fine. They aren't programmed to maliciously hunt me down, then stand over my corpse making sure that I can't do anything productive during an evening. A level 50 bear isn't going to seek me out in my starting zone just because he's a jerk.

Even growing up I never wanted to play games with my friends/family competitively because it was much more enjoyable to play Co-Op. I feel the stress of competition removes a lot of my ability to perceive the world and be involved in it and it takes me out of the element the game was trying to create in the first place.

And let's be honest, there was nothing RPG like in having 100 people battling at Tarren Mill like a bunch of coked up monkies. Sure it was exciting for a lot of people, but it was also mostly ridiculous. Other people are free to disagree, but even if you try to explain through lore that these are people at war you aren't going to see large armies spontaneously battling over an irrelevant piece of land unless they are the two dumbest armies in all of history.

I could gush with superlatives at this post, but its just not me. Im gonna go with cliches, you hit the nail on the head, bang on the money, right on the button!

[Kelimbror]

I'm just amazed by the PvE people that get the 99% of the pizza and just FREAKING OUT over even having to look at the 1% now and then.

I mean it is what it is. Should they be attacking you for wanting something else? No. But also know that it's not exactly the most impartial place to bring up these issues. I would be pretty ticked at having to do any form of PvP content to accomplish PvE goals.

Just having to go to world PvP in order to do map completion did not sit well with me. It was exciting exactly one time, the first time. And then when I inevitably died and had to run from BFE back to try and do a jump puzzle in the middle of a battle (on my own time) yeah no. Not fair to either party to be honest.

If those things are going to be in the game, they need to be completely segregated for content and rewards, with any crossover also segregated and motivated by its own set of rules and rewards.

[rhandric]

They make all kinds...can even do cinnamon crust ones, etc.

And I really don't either. In hindsight, and foresight, I should have never and will never create a character on a PvP server ever again. I just recently started playing Skyrim and my mind is blown at having that experience sans PvP. GW2 for the same reasons was thoroughly enjoyable as I'm not there for the excitement and danger of dealing with an arsehole.

Make the world dangerous, the monsters unpredictable, that's fine. They aren't programmed to maliciously hunt me down, then stand over my corpse making sure that I can't do anything productive during an evening. A level 50 bear isn't going to seek me out in my starting zone just because he's a jerk.

Even growing up I never wanted to play games with my friends/family competitively because it was much more enjoyable to play Co-Op. I feel the stress of competition removes a lot of my ability to perceive the world and be involved in it and it takes me out of the element the game was trying to create in the first place.

And let's be honest, there was nothing RPG like in having 100 people battling at Tarren Mill like a bunch of coked up monkies. Sure it was exciting for a lot of people, but it was also mostly ridiculous. Other people are free to disagree, but even if you try to explain through lore that these are people at war you aren't going to see large armies spontaneously battling over an irrelevant piece of land unless they are the two dumbest armies in all of history.

Couldn't have said it better

[Svifnymr]

I mean it is what it is. Should they be attacking you for wanting something else? No. But also know that it's not exactly the most impartial place to bring up these issues. I would be pretty ticked at having to do any form of PvP content to accomplish PvE goals.

Just having to go to world PvP in order to do map completion did not sit well with me. It was exciting exactly one time, the first time. And then when I inevitably died and had to run from BFE back to try and do a jump puzzle in the middle of a battle (on my own time) yeah no. Not fair to either party to be honest.

If those things are going to be in the game, they need to be completely segregated for content and rewards, with any crossover also segregated and motivated by its own set of rules and rewards.

While I generally agree with you on the cooperative play, and even the map completion thing, I do think that having certain achievements/ rewards available as a crossover between pve/wv/pvp or whatnot is not a bad thing. So long as it's not required to be competitive, I don't mind if there's say, a specific looking set of pvp only armor, or a specific backpack that requires pve and wv.

[Fencers]

I wonder though, at what point is someone just being totally unreasonable about what's on their pizza?

Just have to know what kind of product you are getting. It is never unreasonable to desire a 100% PVE/PVP focused experience. One might not get it and [very likely] might be demanding such a thing from the wrong game.

Like people can expect a 100% separate play experience between two modes. They can. They might not get it in total or as desired perfectly. But all the same, they can desire such.

Again, one either deals with it or finds another place to get their pizza.

[Arlee]

Can we stop talking about pizza now please? You are making my tummy grumble and I have no pizza to eat

[Deleted]

I'm pretty excited for this one.
Altho I'm hoping for much more than this. I know it's only a peek of their plans, still it feels like too little has happened. I'm yet waiting for the major changes. hopefully this year will be one of those.
Also glad MF will be gone. This new solution sounds much better.

[Lane]

Make the world dangerous, the monsters unpredictable, that's fine. They aren't programmed to maliciously hunt me down, then stand over my corpse making sure that I can't do anything productive during an evening. A level 50 bear isn't going to seek me out in my starting zone just because he's a jerk.

I would be pretty ticked at having to do any form of PvP content to accomplish PvE goals.

Just having to go to world PvP in order to do map completion did not sit well with me.

Exactly. When I've PvPed in the past it's been in battlegrounds where there's understandably nothing else to do but PvP objectives. Whereas in GW2 I have to zone into PvP to complete PvE objectives and almost no one who sees you is going to allow that. I've had whole zergs turn on a dime to come after me when I was running around alone without anyone else from my server in sight.

I've had some luck with Obsidian Sanctum, but in terms of getting WvW map completion I have literally never encountered anyone who let me be if they saw me going for a vista or skill point, the act of doing so probably triggers a "free HK" mechanism. :P At least most of the POIs I can kind of get by following the zerg when my server isn't sucking, which is a very small percentage of the time. >_>

I suppose people can consider it "complaining about the 1%" if they like, but my stance is that I simply wish the two were separate. I'm not sure why anyone who PvPs and doesn't want to PvE would argue against that since it's to their benefit too. There's really no reason to combine WvW and PvE map completion, nor is there any reason to add one WvW objective every time to a 99% PvE meta achievement. People who want to do both PvE and PvP are already doing both, I don't believe these 'bundled' achievements are really bringing a bunch of new blood to PvP or luring a bunch of PvPers into PvE content on any kind of permanent basis.

Having said that, yeah, PvPers get the shaft. I was surprised/disappointed to learn that all the server borderlands maps are practically mirror images of each other. I thought the whole purpose of rotating maps was because they were different, so that was boring. I also think it's just sheer laziness on the developers' part to not better incorporate WvW into events other than adding one objective to a PvE meta that only really serves to get PvE'ers upset and does nothing for PvPers. Can't comment on sPvP since I've never done it.

Anyway. :P I also hate green peppers and unfortunately they have such a potent flavor that even a few of them on pizza actually taints the whole pizza. You can't escape that flavor! >_<

[Fencers]

I also hate green peppers and unfortunately they have such a potent flavor that even a few of them on pizza actually taints the whole pizza. You can't escape that flavor! >_<

This was precisely my entire point.

Well, maybe not "entirely". But green peppers on pizza kinda blows.

One of the things GW1 did well was allowing players to create a PVP only character. It seems a wasted opportunity that Anet did not fully develop the concept in the sequel. We might have had truly separate game modes if so.

[Lazuli]

They covered every single problem I have with the game. If these changes really go through I will be one happy panda. I guess a few devs logged in GW1 and went oh a herp derp so this is what they wanted the whole time hurrr durrr, only took them a year. Or maybe they read one of the billions of threads on the official forums all saying the same goddamn complaints.

The GW2 I always wanted, more skills and pvp is what caught my eye instantly, although what did he specifically mean by new map types? Modes? Same shitty conquest but with an added mechanic? Just different maps? What? ysokryptic

We've been asking for GvG since GW2 was first announced it was being developed. WHy so fucking sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooow.

I have hope once again. Haven't played in like 4 months and suddenly have the urge to.

Still, remain skeptical. ANet has been known to lie straight to their players faces multiple times and all this is subject to change.

[Black Rider]

I was actually. I worked for SOE and Frogster entertainment. And currently am a moderator and admin of several forums on books, movies and culture. XD

My day job is in market research & product analyst for various corporations; Pepsi, Unilever, Frito-Lay, Nabisco, Samsung, Hewlett-Packard, etc. I don't have time for CMing anymore, but I still take message boarding very seriously as a new modern medium of communication.

Your posting style and strong arguments told me about you being CM

On topic:
If GW2 will have raids it will be awesome...
Maybe in 2014 :hopes: