The rich stay rich and the poor stay poor.

[Deleted]

Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world.

I'm impressed

[Elegiac]

My school was heavily underfunded.

It's not the schools as much as it is the kids themselves.

And you base this opinion on, what?

Oh yeah, anecdotal evidence. So, no. I'm not going to take your experience as a basis for my recommendation for social policy.

What the kids themselves do is actually rather irrelevant in the scheme of things; primarily because it is public education that teaches a certain set of cultural values. By cracking down on which values are being taught or permissible, the outcome can be influenced.

Do you think it's coincidence that nationalism became especially prevalent shortly after the introduction of general public education in European countries?

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lol its 2013 and he is force to use statistic from 1975 to 1997 to show his thesis that is 16 year old data.

Yes, but given that historically social mobility becomes vastly lower during periods of economic downturn it's a reasonable assumption that things have not, in fact, improved.

[Deleted]

Didactic: I feel he is dishonest, very simplified 1973 was the oil crisis and economic downturn, he start 1975 then the economic did start to recovery and grow, he end it 1997, and 1998 have the economy reach its peek. In my opinion he did cheery pick the best 22 years.

[Deleted]

I don't think he is dishonest. There have been at least 2 recessions in the US during that period. So it's not really cherry picking.

[Fugus]

I'm not trying to be rude but I have poor friends who in essence, "made it" because they saw opportunity and took it.

Fuck I have one right now (a senior currently) who lives in one of the poorer parts of town who's in AP classes and the high school covers his AP tests (the fee). He saw the opportunity and took it like the smart kid he is. Here's the best part, he also learned who to make friends with, smart kid really, he knows the rich kids and uses that as leverage for himself.

Please, just walk through your typical high school hallway and tell me you can't pick out the people who don't care, it's really easy trust me.

I know a friend like that too. I high school he was among the top of his class in all but the phys ed, he went to college and all, now he works at Walmart and has for over a decade cause he couldn't find work in his major but he can sure help you when you are trying to ask questions about electronics.

I know a girl who did the same thing, last I checked, she works at the college since she couldn't find work outside of it.

There is a big difference between the life you lived and the life the vast majority of others live in. There is a reason why the statistics of the group are much more relevant to the these discussions than a single persons evidence. I understand you disagree as your life has seen some of the exceptions, but just like when I see it in my life, they are the exceptions, not the rule.

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My argument to that was me being in high school for 4 years watching this. Really, if you want me to document all of my observations I sure as hell will. Here's the problem, you guys are avoiding the root of the problem and that is kids growing up not caring about their future. You can say whatever you want about not having the right funds but honestly, high school is fucking free which makes that entire point moot. Not to mention it's much easier to get a scholarship at a college if you're not from a good social background.

The facts are right in front of you, look at them.

Most of us HAVE, you haven't. You are still in school and have yet to see the real world, many of us are in ours 20s, 30s, 40s, and even 50s, we have seen it upclose and personal and it isn't as rosey as you wish it was. Trust me, I WISH it was as good as you say, you would see many more successes but it isn't which is why things are so much crap as now the rules are setup to be rigged against most unless they are already in the "in" crowd.

[Catta]

A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

[Eroginous]

Most of us HAVE, you haven't. You are still in school and have yet to see the real world, many of us are in ours 20s, 30s, 40s, and even 50s, we have seen it upclose and personal and it isn't as rosey as you wish it was. Trust me, I WISH it was as good as you say, you would see many more successes but it isn't which is why things are so much crap as now the rules are setup to be rigged against most unless they are already in the "in" crowd.

The best advice I could offer a high school student is to get as much real world experience as you possibly can. Skip college (unless you get a full ride somewhere, you don't want to have any student loan debt coming out of college, period) and take only the classes that are relevant to what you want to do as a job. Focus on trying to apply that knowledge to starting your own business, and don't depend on just going to work for someone else once you get out of school.

Do internships as well, they are amazingly great at giving you some of that first hand experience.

The last thing you want to do is enroll in school just for the sake of 'getting an education' and racking up a huge amount of debt without being 100% positive you will have work waiting for you when you are done.

College isn't a rite of passage any more than it's a tool to secure your future. At the end of the day, you still have to find someone willing to give you an opportunity.

[Catta]

They aren't drugs man. They're self-discipline.

Where can i get that prescribed?

[Deleted]

...most of the rich people have worked hard and earned their money. If you work/study enough you can change your lifestyle. That is my opinion.

The first and second sentence are completely unrelated. Sure, rich people work hard, so do police officers, soldiers, single parents, construction workers, and a thousand other people working jobs that require more hours in more difficult/hazardous conditions than any CEO has ever experienced. Difficulty of work is not indicative of income earned. There are millions of people who have worked and studied extremely hard and are not rich, there is no disputing this, so your opinion is simply wrong.

Which brings us to this;

That's the big thing people don't realize sadly, they just see a rich guy and get jealous... It's just that they believe they deserve something they haven't worked for, typical human behavior, it's the smart ones that realize in the US anyone can "make it" with the right amount of effort.

It's not about jealousy. You are intentionally conflating ANYONE with EVERYONE. Sure, individually, "anyone" can make it, just like "anyone" can win the lottery. But it is an undeniable fact that EVERYONE can not make it. We live in an economy of scarce resources. Everyone can not be rich. For one person to be rich, many people must be poor.

So yes, rich people work hard for their money, so do many many many poor people. We should be striving to make it so there is more equality between hard working people, instead of justifying radical wealth disparity with massively flawed logic.

[Eroginous]

The first and second sentence are completely unrelated. Sure, rich people work hard, so do police officers, soldiers, single parents, construction workers, and a thousand other people working jobs that require more hours in more difficult/hazardous conditions than any CEO has ever experienced. Difficulty of work is not indicative of income earned. There are millions of people who have worked and studied extremely hard and are not rich, there is no disputing this, so your opinion is simply wrong.

Which brings us to this;


It's not about jealousy. You are intentionally conflating ANYONE with EVERYONE. Sure, individually, "anyone" can make it, just like "anyone" can win the lottery. But it is an undeniable fact that EVERYONE can not make it. We live in an economy of scarce resources. Everyone can not be rich. For one person to be rich, many people must be poor.

So yes, rich people work hard for their money, so do many many many poor people. We should be striving to make it so there is more equality between hard working people, instead of justifying radical wealth disparity with massively flawed logic.

Pretty much this.

[Famine]

State rather you believe this or not and why.

I do believe it's true but my reasons are much more simplistic.


Change the statement to - The fat stay fat and the skinny stay skinny.

Same basic thing. We all know weight can go up or down based on shit tons of different variables but if you're going to start with a person being one thing, the most likely outcome is for them to continue to be that thing.

Said another way -It's also much easier to stay skinny/rich than it is to become it since you're talking about the difference between mere maintenance and true transformative effort.

[Duronos]

Just to clarify, I'm not in highschool anymore. I stated earlier that I graduated this year.

Also if you want to know something, yes there will always be poor people but what I'm trying to say is that the rich ones were the smarter ones and took advantage of an opportunity in front of them while the poor didn't. There are less rich people than poor and it seems it will always be the case. I'm sorry to tell you guys this but not everyone can live in the big mansion down the road.

[Dezerte]

We are all born unequal, grow up in unequal situations and face unequal challenges in life.

[Catta]

Just to clarify, I'm not in highschool anymore. I stated earlier that I graduated this year.

Also if you want to know something, yes there will always be poor people but what I'm trying to say is that the rich ones were the smarter ones and took advantage of an opportunity in front of them while the poor didn't. There are less rich people than poor and it seems it will always be the case. I'm sorry to tell you guys this but not everyone can live in the big mansion down the road.

So... you've been out of high school for a couple of months?

[Deleted]

Also if you want to know something, yes there will always be poor people but what I'm trying to say is that the rich ones were the smarter ones and took advantage of an opportunity in front of them while the poor didn't. There are less rich people than poor and it seems it will always be the case. I'm sorry to tell you guys this but not everyone can live in the big mansion down the road.

So in your world there are two types of people; smart rich people that had an opportunity and took it, and poor stupid people that had an opportunity and decided they liked being poor better?

I really wish we lived in your world, I really do. But we don't. You are willfully ignoring the vast majority of the population that does not get an opportunity. Sure, lots of people get an opportunity to be average. We get an opportunity to go to school, to get a job, and a car, and a house. In this economy, being average is actually pretty awesome, because there are lots of people not even getting the opportunity to be average, let alone rich. Ignoring all of those people, or worse, accusing them of being too stupid to be rich is just being so incredibly oblivious to the world around you it makes my head hurt.

Worse yet, your fictional world also assumes rich people were smart enough to take AN opportunity, like somehow it's a singular thing. They saw a chance to start a business and took it, and POOF! instant billionaire. To be rich, a person needs to have so many opportunities put in front of them it's staggering. There is no one thing that makes it all work, it requires a whole confluence of opportunities. It requires working incredibly hard, in a lucrative field, that you have a strong aptitude for, in an economy that funds your work, with people who support your work, at a time when your work is needed, and maybe, if all of those things come together, you might be rich. Even then, you still need some luck.

So again, it would be wonderful to live in your world where everyone gets an opportunity to be rich, and people are perfectly compensated for their efforts, but we don't. It has nothing to do with jealousy, I don't believe we should be angry at the rich, but I do believe we need to be demanding more opportunities for everyone, and not excusing the rich from their responsibility to give back to the society that raised them up.

[haxartus]

The rich are getting richer because they have money. It's as simple as that. Money makes money more than any talent or dedication or anything. Investing $100 million with a 3% yearly return will give you $3 million a year, investing $100k will give you $3000.
Most people never invest anything, don't know how to invest in anything and live from day to day with the paycheck from last month and with no money in the bank. How do you expect they can get rich ? It's not possible.
Even if they somehow get their hands on a large amount of money, they don't know what to do with it and quickly spend it during the course of the next few years, after which they are back where they started. So you could say there is some skill involved in getting rich and staying that way.

[Deleted]

The rich are getting richer because they have money. It's as simple as that. Money makes money more than any talent or dedication or anything. Investing $100 million with a 3% yearly return will give you $3 million a year, investing $100k will give you $3000.

Plus there's this too, which couldn't be more accurate.

I've heard it applied to many fields, but it all comes back to an old joke;

"What's the best way to make a small fortune in horse racing?" "Start with a large one."

[Masark]

I've heard it applied to many fields, but it all comes back to an old joke;

"What's the best way to make a small fortune in horse racing?" "Start with a large one."

Or alternatively, "Own the track".

[Deleted]

Thankfully university is almost free here, relative to other countries. I was born in a very average middle class household, and the odds are likely that I'll improve upon the situation my parents had, who never got the chance to pursue a higher education degree but still made a decent living due to hard work and dedication.

It saddens me that so many people believe in a deterministic society, or that it might even be real in your countries.