Mindbender buff

[PhillieB]

Is this old news that they've just summerized and I've completly missed it or this is new.

"Mindbender now deals 10% more damage, and mana return has been increased by 20%." Just did some multiplication and took the total mana return on 6, 7, 8 minute fights shamelessly stolen from this thread: http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2693. and multiplied the total mana gain it by 20%. They are very close now but still seems Solace comes out on top in a perfect rotation.

[Lithios]

In its current form I heard solace on cooldown barey edges it out. How can it still get edged out by a 20% increase?

[snaxattax]

solace is still slightly better mana and HPS, but mindbender will likely be a more popular option once we have the cooldown reducing trinket. 50% uptime on mindbender is a *lot* of consistent mana generation, especially since we won't want to stack spirit at all with the proposed nerfs to rapture.

[Deleted]

now ... priest is fine

[PhillieB]

In its current form I heard solace on cooldown barey edges it out. How can it still get edged out by a 20% increase?

I just took the math from the thread I linked and added the 20% to the total on Mindbenders return and from what I could see it was like neck to neck with Solace, very slightly behind.

[h3lladvocate]

I just took the math from the thread I linked and added the 20% to the total on Mindbenders return and from what I could see it was like neck to neck with Solace, very slightly behind.

It worth noting that with poor(ish) solace uptime (about 4 per min instead), Solace is nearly exactly the same as new Mindbender (~4800 mp5 vs 4838mp5)

[vanityking]

Even without the trinket, with this buff I don't think I will pick Solace (as a disc priest). It's not every fight I can manage a perfect rotation and I don't think the trouble is worth a minor boost from a cast and forget Mindbender.

[Caliph]

As a holy priest i can never use solace. even swtiching to the focus target for solace use interupts my healing. holy priests imo are effectively left out of solace. i always have to use mindbender. Also, isn't fdcl the goto talent in 5.4?

In any event i use solace in a disc rotation. i swear disc has it so good. i can go with just 10k spirit and pick up as much int/crit/mastery as i want. my throughput is great.

buff holy.

[TheSerialSniper]

Solace is really only worth taking if you are doing the most of your healing through atonement. If your are not atonement healing, it is a huge loss in GCDs (holy).

Mind bender is what I always use regardless of spec, it is an easy to use dumbfire and consistant mana regen cd that also does a ton of free extra dmg.

I really do not understand why mindbender was buffed and why rapture was changed to not be affected from spirit, it is like they are telling priest to not use spirit if they are disco. Holy also does really good with little spirit (i run holy and disc both with 10kish spirit) and have no issues with either right now thanks to horridon trinket and mindbender <3.

[snaxattax]

and at the same time they're saying that mistweavers need to use more spirit. we're living in magical times.

[Noradin]

Why would solace be a loss of GCDs for holy?
I admit I seldom use it as holy as I mostly switch to that spec for either its AoE burst or directed single target throughput, but in other situations I see no reason why it should be worse for holy than it is for disc. It is one GCD either way and transfers the same healing. And if you are changing targets for your spells then changing them for solace as well shouldnt be a concern since you would change targets on that GCD for whichever other spell you would use instead anyway.

[vanityking]

Disc already should be casting Holy Fire as a part of their "rotation" to maintain Evangelism up or to achieve a high amount of DPS. Power Word: Solace replaces Holy Fire for an similar version, only better. Holy has no need to cast Holy Fire in a fight unless they feel like helping out at low damage phases, but it's no real increase HPS-wise, meaning that Solace is a new spell they have to think about for them, and it's just a hit the same button at the same time for disc, which is why it theoretically saves disc more mana. Currently it is still good for Holy Priests, because it gives them a free heal, but I don't see why anyone would take it after this Mindbender buff.

[snaxattax]

afaik solace for holy is for pvp. it does a significant amount of healing in smite chakra.

[Nightstorm]

Solace is not for Holy. If you want to tell me that it is then log onto PTR right now and complete proving grounds endless with solace and I will believe you. You would have to be nutty to use solacy as Holy. Even the new FDCL will not be used by holy priests most of the time, we just can't afford the mana loss of mindbender. You can quote me on that.

[Caliph]

Solace is not for Holy. If you want to tell me that it is then log onto PTR right now and complete proving grounds endless with solace and I will believe you. You would have to be nutty to use solacy as Holy. Even the new FDCL will not be used by holy priests most of the time, we just can't afford the mana loss of mindbender. You can quote me on that.

i'm looking ahead at fdcl and thinking "i'm not here to manage procs". I have to manage the raid's hp bars. with that i'm sticking to mindbender. i dont' care about the mana savings on fdcl procs and binding heals, etc. i'm just going to continue healing, pop mind bender on cd and keep people up. i don't care about managing procs, that's for dps.

[Noradin]

Disc already should be casting Holy Fire as a part of their "rotation" to maintain Evangelism up or to achieve a high amount of DPS. Power Word: Solace replaces Holy Fire for an similar version, only better. Holy has no need to cast Holy Fire in a fight unless they feel like helping out at low damage phases, but it's no real increase HPS-wise, meaning that Solace is a new spell they have to think about for them, and it's just a hit the same button at the same time for disc, which is why it theoretically saves disc more mana. Currently it is still good for Holy Priests, because it gives them a free heal, but I don't see why anyone would take it after this Mindbender buff.

Since it would also replace a GCD for Holy and provide just another way to get that heal that would have taken that GCD with a free (mana-givning) one, I don't think you can honestly say that it saves more mana for disc.

[Lumael]

As holy I think I'm going to try FDCL because of the 2 piece. Not only is it free healing it will also buff my PoH/GH.

[vanityking]

Yes it does theoretically save disc more mana because, again, disc should be casting Holy Fire which costs mana, holy doesn't -need- to cast it ever which doesn't cost mana. In reality it's the same amount of mana saved and gained but Disc uses Holy Fire, holy doesn't. I see some holy priests using it now and then because it's not a bad talent, but it requires constant baby sitting, which not many people are fond of.

[Deleted]

The new mindbender is still not as good as solace for disc, however with the buff it is now a viable alternative, because it contributes a significant amount of damage. The new mindbender will be adding in excess of 15k DPS. For disc priests who care about damage, this might be what clinches it. For Disc priests optimising HPS solace is still the best talent because you lose less GCDs.

Solace CAN be used by holy, because it heals atonement style, but that effectively means using a fairly weak single target heal every 10s, which is not really very nice for holy. If you are going for holy DPS, then solace is not a bad talent at all since you can do a little healing on the side, but you lose damage from mindbender.

FDCL is now hands down the best talent for holy. Effectively the same regen value as mindbender (the difference is less than 1% max mana per minute), but a very significant boost to HPS). I still see ppl claim that you don't have enough mana without mindbender, I really don't know what you are on about. The ~20k extra mana you get from mindbender is a trivial amount.

[Venaliter]

Solace for Holy is a bad joke, anything BUT Insanity for Shadow is laughable; the same goes for FDCL and Holy. (Or possibly Mindbender). Disc can pick Solace for Heavy atonement, or Mindbender if you're doing something else. It's a pretty decent tier, really. Solace needs to be better for Holy, and FDCL needs to be revamped for Shadow.