1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    It's not clean or ethical.

    WoW is not a free to play; everything they do with that sub money should be returned to the player. Not "hey we're going to use your money to pay for this art guy, then sell you whatever he creates". The reason people are OK with being sold vanity items in F2Ps is because that is usually the only way that company generates money. They give you all of the real content for free. In most cases, you can even earn the cash-shop currency with GOLD. Yep. I can get minipets from GW2 with my character's earned gold.
    If Blizzard wants to present WoW as a premium game (as it does), what is wrong with charging more? Are you going to complain complain next that the steakhouse is "unethical" because they are charging more than McD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    It's also not a "fair deal". Have you played any other MMOs lately? A full set of very nice transmog armour will cost you LESS than a single one of these helmets. One art asset is not costing them that much to produce, so there is literally no reason to charge that sort of money for it. They could charge $2-4, make more people feel OK about it, and still make an absolute fucking fortune. The only motivation for charging $15 is pure greed. Plain and simple.

    It's not about being able to afford them, or other retarded shit. I think most people paying £90 a year for a game can afford the cash shop too. This is about ethics and the trend that idiots who are paying for the privilege of being screwed by Blizzard are setting for the future. You think they'll carry on designing great looking armour sets (lol MoP tiers) for the game when they can start selling them to you instead with a $30 price tag? It wont happen tomorrow, but you'd have to be real dumb to think they'll never do it with this kind of white knighting going on everytime they pull some dubious shit.
    They are vanity items that are non-functional even in a virtual world, that is as archetypal an example of fashion as you can get. As a rule, there is no "fair deal" in fashion. If you insist on doing accounting, then I could counter with that fashion is for others to see, therefore it is probably worth more in WoW than in a game where no one plays anymore, like GW2.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    Why? Should subscriber not have the right to play with ppl that do not pay extra for ingame items ? If they choose so .. whats wrong with that ?
    It's called discrimination, that's what's wrong with that.

    And yes, please look up the definition before you say 'they're not being racist or sexist lol'.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2013-07-19 at 11:46 PM.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrouded View Post
    In practice, I agree with you. In theory, no - I think everyone has to decide for themselves who they want to play with. I don't think kicking someone over your own principles is any worse than kicking someone for underperforming.
    You see no difference? One of them impacts the speed of the run, saving you time. The other one doesn't impact you at all.

    I think you're being a bit too philosophical about this. This is the standard "people should have freedoms until they impose on the freedoms of others". Kicking people because they bought a helm crosses that line.

  4. #384
    id vote kick yes. why? because theyre supporting these practices with which i do not agree with
    is it fair or whatever? probably not

  5. #385
    People know that cash-shop won't be limited by those helms only and will continue to grow, thus they boycotting cash-shop earlier on.

    People know very well, that if cash-shop will be applauded, we will see much worse things happening around it.

    It's great that at least some people have sense. Those, who buy those helms, are tainting WoW's future by showing Blizzard that cash-shop is in "demand".
    In these regions xp boosts and dailiy farmed items as part of a micro-transaction system make sense, and add to the over-all playability for the player base within that region.
    Even if to ignore any assumptions, it's gonna be fact that cash-shop will become part of in-game UI. This is not acceptable. It feels like a spit to those who pay for this game, to see this in. Tbh, most of 5.4 looks disappointing and flawed, add cash-shop on top of that, and game will go in such big decline, you haven't yet seen. It is still in people's power to stop this obscenity from going on live servers.

    Same old question to defenders of this crap - if you'd buy book in some shop, it had some pages torn out and replaced with shop's advertisement, which would offer you to buy missing pages for more money, would you buy anything in such shop again?

  6. #386
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrouded View Post
    You have to ask yourself that every time you initiate a vote kick though, no matter the reason. Is it worth it? Someone does poor DPS or don't understand tactics, you want to kick them - but is it worth ruining the game for them? Maybe they go too slow or too fast for your tastes, should you kick them then? Maybe they're being offensive, is that grounds for a kick?

    The bottom line is that the vote kick option exists to remove people you don't want to group with for some reason. Those reasons are left to the players. Everyone has to decide for themselves what a "justified" kick is.
    Right... if that makes you sleep at night.

    Kicking because of a transmog item is pathetic and childish. Kicking someone for pulling trash mobs, doing low DPS / HPS, etc is perfectly justified as it directly effects the raid.=

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by fierceangelx View Post
    Quote from years ago. I bet you said / did things back then that you no longer agree with.
    If you read the quote you do realise he said that a game with ingame store should be designed from the ground up as such ? Doesn't matter when that was said. It still is and always has been the core of WOW that ingame resources are the force of WOW. Not outside resources like extra cash.

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by zeropeorth View Post
    So, I can understand the sentiment of the players who are 'taking the law in their own hands'; but the victims are innocent or oblivious. They literally just liked the helms, and they don't understand the core values that are being violated, and the reason the protest is being used against them. Attacking the buyers doesn't stop the seller; at all. That would be like attacking someone who comes out of a grocery store who bought GMO foods, who didn't know they bought GMO foods, and then claiming it was an attack on Monsato. It is just moronic and ridiculous.

    Don't like what a company does? Speak out against the company. If you see someone who supported it, engage them in conversation and help them understand why not to support the action now; and when it would be appropriate to. I feel most of this 'boycotting' of players with helms, would not exist, if the game was F2P/B2P; possibly even if the helms were 1/3 the price. The price point added with the sub fee and box costs has created quite a bit of animosity.

    This just might be the model going forward. Even if you love the game, if you can't respect the producers enough to not take it out on other players, it is time to move on. The respect for the consumer has definitely fallen, compared to how they felt about and treated customers nearly a decade ago. Blame the merger, blame greed, blame the longevity of the game and changing priorities of people running the show ... but they definitely care more about marketing and profit today, than they used to ... and it is fine for some (and profit is the objective of any publicly traded company).

    The way the players need to 'flex their power' as OP put it; is if it bothers them enough; cancel your sub and state the reason. Put in 'cash shop and F2P or sub and in-game earnable items only' ... or something else clear and concise; not a rant of anger and indirect statements.

    This doesn't effect me at all directly, for my wife and I finally decided it was the end months ago (this time we mean it!!!). The game has changed directions far too much for us. But we also don't come on here trying to stop people from playing, nor the few friends we have that still play. Good for you all But, this is just one more thing, among the many other that disappoint us with the direction of the company, that adds to the list of why we won't come back; just another broken straw. While we both admit they are putting more effort in raiding; game isn't for us. It isn't an all bad game; but instead of bitching about it, we moved on and still watch a friend progress on their twitch feed when they raid, to support them doing what they enjoy (and extra eyes to give help/pointers on what we see going wrong).

    Stop punishing the players, there is no reason to hate each other; you all love the game. Take your animosity out on the ones who deserve it; by creating descriptive, engaging, constructive threads on the official forums. It is the only way to make a point while staying subbed; the only other way to get your point across is to unsub; punishing others in game will not affect them at all.
    While I'm okay with the cash shop and we disagree on that regard, your post is full of logic and I completely agree. The part I bolded is the rational way to tell Blizzard you disagree with their cash shop, and they are going to tally the $ lost versus the $ gained from the helms and make their decision.

    I would suspect there are a lot more in the indifferent circle/support cash shop.

  9. #389
    Bloodsail Admiral Csnyder's Avatar
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    so how do these helmets affect you? not one way do they affect you, none what so ever.
    yet you think badly of players who do buy them, that is small minded and sad in my opinion, sad that you voted players out of groups, you are a sad little man. wow your life must really suck to let something that doesnt affect you in any way make you feel like you have to kick players and right up this forum.
    and where does it say 'that in game micro transaction is soon to follow'.....nowhere, you mad it up, you are a drama queen, wow, thats sad but id expect it from a small minded person such as yourself. enjoy your life lil man.

  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    And you would act like it happened if I said I saw it? lol
    Nope. Your posts in this thread make it pretty obvious that this was just a way to create a new thread for you to passive-aggressively rant about microtransactions without having it closed by moderators for being a redundant thread.
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  11. #391
    The Lightbringer serenka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Csnyder View Post
    so how do these helmets affect you? not one way do they affect you, none what so ever.
    yet you think badly of players who do buy them, that is small minded and sad in my opinion, sad that you voted players out of groups, you are a sad little man. wow your life must really suck to let something that doesnt affect you in any way make you feel like you have to kick players and right up this forum.
    and where does it say 'that in game micro transaction is soon to follow'.....nowhere, you mad it up, you are a drama queen, wow, thats sad but id expect it from a small minded person such as yourself. enjoy your life lil man.
    its not the helmets themselves people are annoyed at, its the cash shop as a whole, a lot of people(me included) are very much against the cash shop in WoW, but thats not an excuse for such pathetic behaviour by some people in here.
    dragonmaw - EU

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by fierceangelx View Post
    Right... if that makes you sleep at night.

    Kicking because of a transmog item is pathetic and childish. Kicking someone for pulling trash mobs, doing low DPS / HPS, etc is perfectly justified as it directly effects the raid.=
    Well, I personally wouldn't kick for either of those reasons. I only ever initiated a vote kick when people were being abusive in chat, and even that was rare.

    But my personal opinion isn't that important, I'm speaking in general terms. If this happens, then obviously there are those who feel strongly enough about the whole issue that they see it as a legit reason to kick someone, and I really can't condemn that more than I can kicking for low DPS.

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    People know that cash-shop won't be limited by those helms only and will continue to grow, thus they boycotting cash-shop earlier on.

    People know very well, that if cash-shop will be applauded, we will see much worse things happening around it.

    It's great that at least some people have sense. Those, who buy those helms, are tainting WoW's future by showing Blizzard that cash-shop is in "demand".

    Even if to ignore any assumptions, it's gonna be fact that cash-shop will become part of in-game UI. This is not acceptable. It feels like a spit to those who pay for this game, to see this in. Tbh, most of 5.4 looks disappointing and flawed, add cash-shop on top of that, and game will go in such big decline, you haven't yet seen. It is still in people's power to stop this obscenity from going on live servers.

    Same old question to defenders of this crap - if you'd buy book in some shop, it had some pages torn out and replaced with shop's advertisement, which would offer you to buy missing pages for more money, would you buy anything in such shop again?
    its not acceptable to not have to alt tab?
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  14. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    We chose to go with the subscription-based model instead of that approach. We've taken the approach that we want players to feel like it's a level playing field once they're in WoW. Outside resources don't play into it -- no gold buying, etc. We take a hard line stance against it. What you get out of microtransactions is kind of the same thing and I think our player base would feel betrayed by it. I think that's something else you have to decide on up-front instead of implementing later.

    This is direct quote from BLizzard dev saying that outside resources like real life money should not affect ingame WOW. Its not coming from some "players". This is from BLizzard and like he said.... Players might have some reason to now feel betrayed.
    That was said by Rob Pardo during 2008 when he was Executive Vice President of Game Design at Blizzard Entertainment http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...ld-of-Warcraft


    Rob Pardo is the Chief Creative Officer at Blizzard Entertainment these days

  15. #395
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    I didn't plan on buying one of the helmets, but now I will.

  16. #396
    Deleted
    Possibly the most pathetic thread I have ever read on here and I've seen some stuff.

    OP - get a grip, you are giving yourself zero credibility.

  17. #397
    Despite the fact that there's no real proof this is happening because of their transmog, if it is happening I can certainly understand and sympathize with the sentiment.

    EDIT: Oh, and you can call these people 'pathetic' or 'petty' all you want but they have their opinion and they are sticking to it (and have every right to do so).
    Last edited by Pengalor; 2013-07-19 at 11:51 PM.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrouded View Post
    Well, I personally wouldn't kick for either of those reasons. I only ever initiated a vote kick when people were being abusive in chat, and even that was rare.

    But my personal opinion isn't that important, I'm speaking in general terms. If this happens, then obviously there are those who feel strongly enough about the whole issue that they see it as a legit reason to kick someone, and I really can't condemn that more than I can kicking for low DPS.
    Low DPS slows a group down or prevents them from progressing. A helm transmog does not.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    We chose to go with the subscription-based model instead of that approach. We've taken the approach that we want players to feel like it's a level playing field once they're in WoW. Outside resources don't play into it -- no gold buying, etc. We take a hard line stance against it. What you get out of microtransactions is kind of the same thing and I think our player base would feel betrayed by it. I think that's something else you have to decide on up-front instead of implementing later.

    This is direct quote from BLizzard dev saying that outside resources like real life money should not affect ingame WOW. Its not coming from some "players". This is from BLizzard and like he said.... Players might have some reason to now feel betrayed.
    Why do you feel the need to continue to peddle such absolute horseshit, if anything that quote does not back your stance up or why some playerbase might feel "betrayed".

    You are still within a level playing field, outside resources still aren't playing into it, no gold buying etc.

    Stop talking out of your arse.

  20. #400
    The Lightbringer serenka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pengalor View Post
    Despite the fact that there's no real proof this is happening because of their transmog, if it is happening I can certainly understand and sympathize with the sentiment.

    the only proof ive seen so far was in another thread someone showed some abusive whispers they got regarding the helmets. but seen nothing in any LFR ive done so far.
    dragonmaw - EU

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