Setting my sights too high?

[RyanEX]

That's a very strange viewpoint from the above poster =o.

I would instead tell you that you'll be happiest playing among people with similar ideals, or dedication. If you're someone who comes prepared and works at studying/reading for the game... then you'll not be very satisfied in a group where people show up spottily and generally bang their heads against a wall with no plan.

A single person does not have the power to change 10 others typically, you are much better off accepting the reality of that and moving on to somewhere else if you feel there's a reason to. It is just a video game, and most of the non-real-life friendships in game fade pretty quickly.... that's just the nature of it. You'll meet new people quickly, and the old ones will fade away quickly. The few people you are actually close friends with are an exception and generally it's easy to stay in touch and do things cross realm.

If he was only 1/13 I could accept the bit about his guildies. But they're 7/13. Which means that they're a decent chunk into the more challenging HCs. That takes a degree of dedication and preparation, and not just mindlessly throw themselves at a boss till it drops.

My theory is that you see threads like this popping up every time we get close to the end of the current raiding tier. For some reason it's very...VERY important to a lot of people that their armoury raid reading is full of clears of the previous tier while it was valid. But is it worth it at the end of the day?

For me, the answer is "no". But it might be "yes" for the OP. He just wants our advice and I'm just giving my 2c.

[Justusy]

Aye a good way to put it there, and of course people see through 1 time clears very quickly. I do agree it's important that people are reliable and can stick with something. I automatically assume that's what the OP is wanting, a new "home", but I may be totally wrong of course.

[BMBLB]

top guilds will recruit anyone who knows their shit. and when i say know their shit, I mean every single detail, no matter how minuscule. i can tell you from experience of applying to top guilds that it's not just about doing a decent amount of damage and not standing in crap. you have to be able to tell whoever you're applying to exactly why you're not doing more damage or healing on any boss encounter they ask you about and what exact steps you're going to take to improve. and once you have those answers, you also have to understand that to join a guild like that will basically be giving you a second job. the amount of time and energy you have to invest in those guilds is far beyond what most people comprehend. it's not just showing up on time with food and flasks, but a myriad of other things to have prepared.

so basically, be absolutely sure it's something you want to do, and if it is, kiss your social life good bye.

[Seramore]

Just note that the guilds who are either still working on progression or have just recently killed Ra-Den aren't anywhere close to the top guilds, so they won't be as picky as you think they are. If you want to apply to a more progressed guild, go ahead and do it.

[jetersky]

I fail to see how joining a guild that's 11/13 or 12/13 showcases competitive spirit. You'll be going into guilds who've already refined their play styles for bosses for bosses that you've not done before and you'll effectively be being carried, regardless of how well or how badly you do.

I'm only 2/13 and I've had my share of offers to join other guilds (apparently BM tanks are rare /shrug) but I've been in the same guild since mid way through BC and I'm happy and comfortable here.

Like you said, SoO is coming out soon, why take the risk of alienating yourself from people you enjoy playing with just to get a couple of extra notches under your belt, which in honesty you didn't really work for. if you're as competitive as you claim then you'd prefer working for your kills than being spoonfed them.

My competitive spirit lies in the fact that I want to push progression each tier. I could care less about this tier's kills at this point (particularly if I got into a guild that has mostly cleared 13/13, since they wouldn't be "my" kills), and I am simply using ToT as an example of the guild atmosphere I am seeking. My overall goal is to find a guild that will push progression each tier, and there is safety in assuming a guild that has 11+/13 cleared will continue to push content faster than my current guild sitting at 7/13h. In essence I would use the rest of t15 to prove myself as a competent raider, and then t16 would be my opportunity to shine and (hopefully) out compete my fellow raiders, and "earn" my kills as you say.

If you think this is about notches on my belt, you've misinterpreted my post(s) or I wasn't clear in what I'm after. I have enough gold that I could easily buy heroic kills to show off to my current raid team. That is not what I'm after. I am looking to push myself as a player, and I don't think that's going to happen in a guild that is half people who share my attitude, and half the guild that logs in solely for raid nights, taking little to no time in order to min/max their characters and performance. I'm glad you're happy with your current guild. I'm not saying I am not. I am simply saying I want to do more than what I feel my guild is capable of.

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top guilds will recruit anyone who knows their shit. and when i say know their shit, I mean every single detail, no matter how minuscule. i can tell you from experience of applying to top guilds that it's not just about doing a decent amount of damage and not standing in crap. you have to be able to tell whoever you're applying to exactly why you're not doing more damage or healing on any boss encounter they ask you about and what exact steps you're going to take to improve. and once you have those answers, you also have to understand that to join a guild like that will basically be giving you a second job. the amount of time and energy you have to invest in those guilds is far beyond what most people comprehend. it's not just showing up on time with food and flasks, but a myriad of other things to have prepared.

so basically, be absolutely sure it's something you want to do, and if it is, kiss your social life good bye.

To echo the poster right below you, the guilds I'm looking at really can't be considered "top" guilds, though they are very good guilds. I'm not looking for a Blood Legion/Midwinter atmosphere where everything is cleared in a week or three. I'm looking at guilds that are like top 200-300 US if not a bit lower in the US rankings.

[Coombs]

As long as you can hold your own and learn you can apply for anything. I learned early on that if I was going to improve I had to abandon my friends. This was mainly for PvP purposes, but sometimes it went into raiding. It depends what your end goals are.

[Nobleshield]

My theory is that you see threads like this popping up every time we get close to the end of the current raiding tier. For some reason it's very...VERY important to a lot of people that their armoury raid reading is full of clears of the previous tier while it was valid. But is it worth it at the end of the day?

For me, the answer is "no". But it might be "yes" for the OP. He just wants our advice and I'm just giving my 2c.

Hence why I play the Devil's Advocate when such threads crop up. I certainly understand showing clears of heroic content of a tier when it's relevant, but at the same time last expansion I spent a lot of time guild hopping to find a guild "good enough" to clear when current only to burn myself out because I found that I wasn't happy with the people there compared to the more friendly people that I had come to know and love in my old guilds, so I always ended up coming back even if it meant being in a "scrub" guild; the Pokemon Syndrome (i.e. "I want to be the very best") just faded away because it doesn't seem worth the effort anymore.

I answer these threads as someone who is not likely to even clear normal modes while the tier is current, and will probably never see a heroic mode again outside of heavy nerfs a la DS to provide a different viewpoint, since I spent the end of Firelands and the beginning of Dragon Soul guild hopping for a guild capable of being a high-end guild, and the end result was it nearly made me quit the game due to feeling like I was going from a group of close-knit friends who had fun to a clique that viewed me as an outsider, and I didn't want to deal with being "the new guy" to people that seemed for all intents and purposes to not be friendly.

Overall though it sounds like the OP would be happy in a guild that is able to clear while current, so my overall advice to him/her is to go and apply. What's the worst that happens? You get declined? Perhaps just let the officers of your current guild know that you are going to be testing the waters though, as if they see you advertising for a new guild they might kick you out of spite.

[Deleted]

We have recruited players with 0/13hc as a 13/13hc guild. However, the quality of the application would have to be a fair bit higher than someone with the experience of pre-nerf heroic kills to counter-balance this.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Throw in a application to my guild if you're EU.
Details in description.
Keep in mind that guilds that are done with progress don't care much about gear or current progress, for instance my guild recruited 3-4 players recently with 6hc and around 530 ilvl. Why you might ask, well it's summer and progress is going to start again right after summer so during that time people are taking holiday breaks and such. That means we need a bigger roster, new patch also means changes that some might not have a good time adjusting to.

anyways, throw in an application if you want a 5days a week (2-4 now during summer holidays) heroic guild. World rank 110 this tier 25m.

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Why does everyone seem to think that progression = skill?

It doesn't but it shows experience, same with past progression kills.

[Nerfarien]

Just an advice:
Guild who have already cleared the hardest bosses ( I mean Lei Shen here not Ra-Lootpinata-den) can be VERY picky about new applicants: as they have proven that they have overcame the hardest obstacles by themselvs they can have very high expectetions. On the other hand guilds with 11/13 can be very mass recruiting as they need all the help they can get for Lei Shen. Choose in this sense and you should be fine, 7/13 is a good progress.

[Theholypally]

Why does everyone seem to think that progression = skill?

Because they honestly think that heroic progression guilds only look at what they've cleared would be my guess. lol.

[WinniPriest]

Sometimes I think ?I would like to apply to a more highly prgoressed guild but I have 0 heroic experience this tier.

[jetersky]

Because they honestly think that heroic progression guilds only look at what they've cleared would be my guess. lol.

If you'll read through my OP, you'll notice that I mention writing a well written application, including decent logs where I don't durp around to things like lightning ball, or what have you. I am not naïve enough to believe that 13/13h heroic guilds only look at what you've cleared, but I've read enough applications from guilds that are higher end to know that they do take your progression into consideration.

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Throw in a application to my guild if you're EU.
Details in description.
Keep in mind that guilds that are done with progress don't care much about gear or current progress, for instance my guild recruited 3-4 players recently with 6hc and around 530 ilvl. Why you might ask, well it's summer and progress is going to start again right after summer so during that time people are taking holiday breaks and such. That means we need a bigger roster, new patch also means changes that some might not have a good time adjusting to.

anyways, throw in an application if you want a 5days a week (2-4 now during summer holidays) heroic guild. World rank 110 this tier 25m.

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It doesn't but it shows experience, same with past progression kills.

Unfortunately, I am US. >.< I thank you for your post though, as it (along with a few others) has encouraged me to apply to a guild that I never would likely considered (as they are 13/13h). I'm sure it's a long shot, but as so many have pointed out; what's there to lose? ^.^

[glo]

Pretty dick move to app for a better guild when you damn well know (and mentioned in your post) that you're not going to have the time to raid anymore soon. Basically, you want to get carried to the top and take a break afterwards.

[jetersky]

Pretty dick move to app for a better guild when you damn well know (and mentioned in your post) that you're not going to have the time to raid anymore soon. Basically, you want to get carried to the top and take a break afterwards.

When did I say I won't have the time soon? I said something along the lines of "I will not always be able to commit the time I can now." That's because I am working on my master's degree and only work part-time-for myself. I have at least another year and half to two years before I will even be looking for a "real" job, so I am able to commit to a heavier raiding schedule. I don't see how that's soon? I would hope that the possibility of me having to find a real job in nearly two years' time would not be a deterrence to a raiding guild, as I'm sure most turnover is a lot higher than that.

[RyanEX]

If you'll read through my OP, you'll notice that I mention writing a well written application, including decent logs where I don't durp around to things like lightning ball, or what have you. I am not naïve enough to believe that 13/13h heroic guilds only look at what you've cleared, but I've read enough applications from guilds that are higher end to know that they do take your progression into consideration.

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Unfortunately, I am US. >.< I thank you for your post though, as it (along with a few others) has encouraged me to apply to a guild that I never would likely considered (as they are 13/13h). I'm sure it's a long shot, but as so many have pointed out; what's there to lose? ^.^

Well if you're determined to app I have one suggestion. Make sure to talk with a couple of players from the guild you're thinking about apping to before you actually do. Make sure they need someone of your class, specc and level of experience. A common tactic to determine whether a player would be a fit is for the guy in charge of recruitment to make discreet or non discreet contact with players from your current guild.

If you're not careful you could find yourself without a guild period since, and I'm talking for myself personally, I'd insta kick anyone I found out was apping to another guild.

[Deleted]

top guilds will recruit anyone who knows their shit. and when i say know their shit, I mean every single detail, no matter how minuscule. i can tell you from experience of applying to top guilds that it's not just about doing a decent amount of damage and not standing in crap. you have to be able to tell whoever you're applying to exactly why you're not doing more damage or healing on any boss encounter they ask you about and what exact steps you're going to take to improve. and once you have those answers, you also have to understand that to join a guild like that will basically be giving you a second job. the amount of time and energy you have to invest in those guilds is far beyond what most people comprehend. it's not just showing up on time with food and flasks, but a myriad of other things to have prepared.

so basically, be absolutely sure it's something you want to do, and if it is, kiss your social life good bye.

Im sure he never meant to apply to a world top 20 guild. If he did, then what you wrote is very applicable.

For the rest of us muggles, showing up on time, bringing consumables (or just throwing mats at the alchemywhore in the guild and cursing at him when he doesnt proc often enough!) is EXACTLY what raidpreparation is.

Now, 10man, so very different from 25man - but we recently took in a few recruits, one as low as ilvl 500 who hasnt raided competitively since Cata and just boosted him to a full ra-den clear. Over the summer most people will be in BiS/close enough, sans silly TF items, so what gear you join with now is inconsequential. In our guild it's more of a: are you stupid? No, good. Do you speak swedish? Great. Can you raid 2-sometimes3 times per week? Awesome. If we we need your class/role and your logs show that youre not bad, then you'd be in pretty much.

[Badir]

A few weeks ago, my 12/13 Guild took me back in after not raiding for two years before I even got to lvl 90 on a different class. What I mean is, if you are confident in your ability as a raider, I am very sure that you didn't set your sights too high . If you are prepared with logs, show that you master your class and write a good application, you will have a very good chance.

[Deleted]

Just example from my guild. We were at ~8/13HC about month ago and we recruited 2 players with 12/13 & 13/13HC experience. This guys were kicked in one or two weeks after. They just didn't fit to our guild. You know they was like "you noobs, why are you failing to this things, etc". But they were also failing at simple mechanics...
Really, progress is not equal to skill...

[Deleted]

I'm the GM of a 11/13 HC guild and we have taken in recruits with experience much lower than yours. It all depends on how they present themselves, their knowledge of the class, their logs and how their armory looks like. So, make sure everything looks great and you'll easily get in a 13/13 guild, I'd say.