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  1. #41
    Any progress is acceptable, this isnt a competition.
    However, for the time you're investing in raiding, your progress is extremley underwhelming and I'd consider trying to spend my time doing more rewarding things, wether its getting in a better guild to achieve better progress in relation to time spent, or just give up raiding altogether for something else entirely...

  2. #42
    That's very bad in my opinion if you started to raid ToT when it was released.

  3. #43
    Deleted
    being it good or bad depends on the people within the guild.

    some guilds raid lots of evenings for longer amounts of time, while putting out very little progression.
    then its most likely that lots of the raiders within said group are pretty subpar, and getting as far as they do is good.

    others raid half of that time and see themself far futher advanced down the progression list.
    this shows that they're made up of mostly good players, but considering if they spent more time their progress might have advanced a lot futher.
    one could say they're doing not so well.

    in the end one should try and find a guild that suits their playstyle the best.
    while having an enjoyable enviremont around it, so it lasts.

  4. #44
    Brewmaster Daedelus's Avatar
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    Good or bad is subjective. If you're not happy with it, then it's bad.

    Having raided at various levels over the years myself, you need to find a level you're happy with. If you feel like you should be cutting edge progression (with everything that entails), you're in the wrong guild. If you like all your guild mates, have fun doing it, no drama, then stick around.

    Word of warning though - you might not like it in a guild that is pushing for realm-firsts. Most guilds of that type are unforgiving places to be.

  5. #45
    Deleted
    what interests me in this thread is, a lot of people think all guilds should be like the top guilds or strive towards them, again people arent accepting that different guilds have different styles and standards within the guild, interesting the guild raiding standard isnt mentioned and only raid days, care to share how your guild operates to some of the posters i ask, or are people too afraid to answer this as it will invalidate their statement.

    remember, different standards means people are happy at their levels and its upto them where they want to be and if they wish to min max or not, not your place and it has no effect on people, always make me laugh when people dont go into specifics

  6. #46
    Stood in the Fire
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    Thats pretty bad my guild does 9 hours a week and for some sad reason it seems like we always cancel 1 night every 2-3 weeks and we are 9/13 looking to make it 10/13 before the reset.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/...ill/Huhuholics

    my guild, we only do 3*3 hours a week and still manage 13/13hc and last tier 16/16hc.

    You're right, that is incredibly average, and a very constructive post. Keep up the insightful great work.

    Tennisace, don't stress about it. This is a video game. If you enjoy playing this video game with your current guildies, continue doing so worry free. Some higher numbered game pixels aren't going to make you any happier. Many high end guilds do not enjoy each others company and treat this video game very seriously, which is their prerogative and perhaps what they enjoy (however many high end guilds I'm sure really enjoy all of their guildmates as well) ..... but if you like the group of people that you are playing with every week that is worth far more than some extra progress in a video game.

  8. #48
    Well it's all about perspective, to a lot of the non-raiders on this forum a heroic kill looks pretty good but my guild has downed everything on heroic for a while now so to them it would look pretty slow.

    All said and done, if you feel like your guild isn't performing at the level you are capable of playing at, start applying to more progressed guilds on your server. Have logs to back up your app.

  9. #49
    @OP:

    Well, dude, as many said above dont get obsessed with progression as long as you're getting fun.

    But, in my opion, in your guild you either need to humble down and start calling yourselves a "casual guild" or man up and start doing some serious progression if you want to consider yourselves a "semi hardcore guild". Kick weak links and recruit strong ones.

    Mine, we consider as a "casual friends & family guild". We are on a 15 ppl rooster, with weekly rotations. No sitting people because a bad day or maximizing suitable classes on a fight. No hard assistance requirements. You can bail out anytime you want for going out with friends, cinema, beers... or laying in the couch watching your favorite tv show. Dont require 300 food. Even dont make a fuss if you've forgotten your flask.

    We are 2/13 hc in this tier. Got to 5/16 in previous. Do you think a guild with less progression can be called a "semi hardcore"? Hell no.

  10. #50
    Deleted
    We are also a 3day raiding guild, 3-4 hours per night (on average as much as you), and we got 13/13HC last month. 1/13HC as a self-proclaimed 'Semi-Hardcore' guild is extremely poor for the time you put into it. Perhaps it's time to either analyze where it went wrong, or if you want to progress more and get your fun from progress (I know I do), time to look for another guild.

  11. #51
    Legendary! Vargur's Avatar
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    And I thought my last guild with 4/13HC was "bad" with that schedule.
    The only guilty people of low progress are the GM/recruiter and especially the raid leader. You can have the best Paragon/Method raiders in the world, they won't go anywhere without proper leadership.
    On the other hand, the best leader in the world can't progress with 40k damage dealers.
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    Both the guild I'm in and my previous one are currently 1/13 H in 25 man. They both claim to be semi hardcore.

    In the previous tier we were around 4/6H in MSV and just full clear of normals for the other 2.
    Raiding 10 hours a week and still only getting 1 boss heroic in ToT?

    Yeah, your guild is pretty mediocre.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    The last two guilds I've been in both raid 3 nights a week, for about 3.5 hrs each night.

    In my opinion it feels like we're not doing nowhere near as good as we should be doing for the time we're putting in. It's common where we'll reach a difficult boss and wipe forever on it without us seeming to actually get better with attempts. I'm getting frustrated as to me it seems like other guilds on the server are doing much better with equal or less time.

    Both the guild I'm in and my previous one are currently 1/13 H in 25 man. They both claim to be semi hardcore.

    In the previous tier we were around 4/6H in MSV and just full clear of normals for the other 2.

    Are my expectations too high?
    My expectations are that if you call yourself semi-hardcore then you should be able to clear all or near all heroic bosses before the next tier is released.

    9 hours a week is plenty to clear everything. It's not like the old days anymore where you had to corpse run for 10 minutes and clear very hard trash mobs (compared to now) after an hour or two because they respawned. And everyone can gear up solo and catch up so you need less time on farming content (yet many guilds still farm every single week while their whole raid is overgeared and they just need to execute the fight properly).

    When I join a semi-hardcore guild I expect that everyone knows the boss mechanics and strategies and try their best. Apparently these expectations are too high...

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    My expectations are that if you call yourself semi-hardcore then you should be able to clear all or near all heroic bosses before the next tier is released.
    So "semi-hardcore" is the top 2 or so percent ? Only 2.65% of raiding guilds in the EU/US have killed h Sha of Fear ... and I think I'm being extremely generous by only assuming .65% of those kills came after t15 was released. Hell, only just over half of guilds have Sha of Fear normal down ...

    So many people have tunnel-vision / confirmation bias so hard in this thread it's almost hard to believe. It's like when Mitt Romney told kids to borrow 20k from their parents to start a business, as though every parent has 20k to lend their kids. He thinks it's normal for people to have 20 thousand spare dollars burning a hole in their pocket because that's the world he lives in, those are the people he's surrounded by.

    The median is simply much, much lower than most people in this thread think -- but they're surrounded by people in the same situation, and they can't / won't see past their anecdotal experiences, and think those experiences are indicative of reality in general, when it's absolutely not.

    I think I'm gonna start a thread to see where people draw the line between hardcore, semi-hardcore/casual, and casual. Because apparently the people in this thread think the top 2% (how many guilds have Ra-Den kills ... or maybe include another 3/10 of a percent and go up to 2.3% for h Lei-Shen) is "semi-hardcore".
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  15. #55
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Stockers View Post
    Guild I am only started raiding again 2 months ago, and currently 1/13hc, people have been on holiday, few people rage quit, one person sold his account. Where are we realm wise... we are around 140ish. Is that "good"... that's a matter of opinion. We raid 2 nights a week, 3 hours, never extended past 10 minutes. Often starting late due to slackers. Am I happy with that progression? I don't give a shit. Because I am happy playing the game with the guild I am in, and love the guys I play with.

    Who cares what others are doing, chances are there is always gonna be someone better than you, as well as people worse than you. Are they playing at the same skill level as you? or holding you back, and if so, how does it make you feel? If you are not happy, leave. You are paying £9 a month, thats your money (I assume), it's your choice to make.

    No one here can decide if it's good or not. Some elitist will come on and say it's shite and they have 13/13hc, some new player will come on and be wow thats really good, and their guild is only 3/12 and can't do the turtles on tortos. You might be the one holding the guild back from more hc kills. However you might be the pro they can always rely on to do 200k DPS.

    So if it's good or not... is just someone elses' opinion. Only you can decide if YOUR progression is good.
    THis is the best answer imo

  16. #56
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Not bad, just think of all the people who have yet to do even 1/13h.

    But claiming to be semi-hardcore and still only being 1/13, yeah that's not good.

    My guild raids 3*3 and is at 11/13, with a chance of 12 or even 13/13 next reset (but most likely 2-3 resets away)

  17. #57
    We are 3/12 normal cause we have a lot of slackers. Then we have to get some pug healers, so you can imagine how long we have to wait then.
    If the wait is too long we have to cancel cause it's getting late.

    And they have voted for raiding days which came at Friday and Tuesday (probably the worst days to ever raid )
    Then Tuesday's raid gets cancelled and you don't have time to get in a pug (which is also hard cause you don't have experience)

    Honestly i don't care about normal/heroic raiding anymore since LFR was introduced, and i used to be a 7days/week hardcore raider.

  18. #58
    My guild was 1/13H with 2 nights of 2.5 hours a week and we were about to kill Ji-Kun and Horridon before half the raid summered out.

  19. #59
    Deleted
    There is no "bad" or "good" in guilds progressions. Each guild sets different goals and has got a different skill level. Some people are just happy to be able to kill off all normal content + a few heroics, others feel the need to race to the last heroic boss as soon as possible.

    If you are coming up with this question, then my guess is that you are not happy with that guild progression goal. That doesn't make them bad, they just want different things from their raiding experience

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    So "semi-hardcore" is the top 2 or so percent ? Only 2.65% of raiding guilds in the EU/US have killed h Sha of Fear ... and I think I'm being extremely generous by only assuming .65% of those kills came after t15 was released. Hell, only just over half of guilds have Sha of Fear normal down ...

    So many people have tunnel-vision / confirmation bias so hard in this thread it's almost hard to believe. It's like when Mitt Romney told kids to borrow 20k from their parents to start a business, as though every parent has 20k to lend their kids. He thinks it's normal for people to have 20 thousand spare dollars burning a hole in their pocket because that's the world he lives in, those are the people he's surrounded by.

    The median is simply much, much lower than most people in this thread think -- but they're surrounded by people in the same situation, and they can't / won't see past their anecdotal experiences, and think those experiences are indicative of reality in general, when it's absolutely not.

    I think I'm gonna start a thread to see where people draw the line between hardcore, semi-hardcore/casual, and casual. Because apparently the people in this thread think the top 2% (how many guilds have Ra-Den kills ... or maybe include another 3/10 of a percent and go up to 2.3% for h Lei-Shen) is "semi-hardcore".
    If the choices are only Hardcore, Semi-Hardcore and Casual, then in my opinion you are Hardcore if you finish all heroic content before the next tier. Semi-Hardcore if you can clear all normal + some heroics. Casual if you can't finish the raid on normal.

    Putting everyone that hasn't cleared heroics at the same level of who is still stuck on Horridon/Tortos.... is a bit too harsh indeed!

  20. #60
    Where is my chicken! moremana's Avatar
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    Your progression is only as good as what you are happy with.
    If your posting on here looking for answers you wont find them, you are obviously not satisfied so apply to another guild.

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