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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Catharsius View Post
    Roia probably gave the best advice in this thread. It's kind of amusing when people from Huhuholics and Trolltyg post when they're among the higher ranked guilds in Europe that raid on a 3day schedule (which is only a small fraction of the 3 day raiding scene). The quality between the op's guild and their is miles between them so of course 1/13hc is going to be rubbish. Then again, both thoose guilds progress is pretty bad compared to Pure's and Old School's progress (who also got outperformed by two weeks by the US). It all comes down to who you compare yourself to and I'm pretty sure op isnt comparing his guild with the highest ranked 3 day raiding guilds in the world since he's coming from a guild with similar progress that his current guild is at.

    The question comes down to what Roia wrote. Do you have fun with the people you play with. If not - then you should probably ask yourself if you're one of the higher performing players in the guild - if so then perhaps its time to step it up a notch and apply to a guild who is a few heroics into progress and learn to progress through that aspect of raiding.
    I'm in Huhuholics and other than a little bit of petty inter guild rivalry with some other 3 night 25 man guilds on the server we don't tend to compare ourselves to other guilds. We raid nine hours a week and outside of raids we are about as casual as it comes, we don't even have an alt run. Raiding is all about the goals you set yourself and then judging it on that basis, our goal is to clear content while it is current, another guilds goals might be to simply raid normals with a group of friends with the goal of having fun.

    There is no need to ask the community whether 1/13 is acceptable because they cannot answer it for you, the question that matters is whether 1/13 with the people that you are playing with acceptable to you. I can guarantee that there are guilds out there not even clearing 12/12 normal that are having just as much fun as what I am having killing 13/13 (I dare say more on some nights)
    Last edited by Migraine; 2013-07-23 at 11:44 PM.

  2. #102
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Migraine View Post
    I'm in Huhuholics and other than a little bit of petty inter guild rivalry with some other 3 night 25 man guilds on the server we don't tend to compare ourselves to other guilds. We raid nine hours a week and outside of raids we are about as casual as it comes, we don't even have an alt run. Raiding is all about the goals you set yourself and then judging it on that basis, our goal is to clear content while it is current, another guilds goals might be to simply raid normals with a group of friends with the goal of having fun.

    There is no need to ask the community whether 1/13 is acceptable because they cannot answer it for you, the question that matters is whether 1/13 with the people that you are playing with acceptable to you. I can guarantee that there are guilds out there not even clearing 12/12 normal that are having just as much fun as what I am having killing 13/13 (I dare say more on some nights)
    I compleatly agree with you there.

  3. #103
    In the end, it's all about having fun. My guild only raids 5-6 hours a week and we are 12/12 normal. We aren't crazy and aren't going to push for the heroic bosses like some guilds and we're fine with that. Pretty much everyone is much older and not some 17 year old kid. Everyone has families, work, things to do. So, pushing further is not our goal. Everyone in the guild accepts it and is fine with it. And most importantly, there is no drama, we all get along and they make the game fun.

  4. #104
    Most importantly, are having fun OP? That's really the only question you should have to answer. Gear is not a big deal to me personally. Gear reset is only a month off at this point. Atmosphere >>>> everything else. I'm fine with wiping all night on a boss as long as the atmosphere stays intact. That's just my personal preference though and I might be in the minority. With server transfers readily available, I've noticed a lot of players in 2013 WoW play for themselves and just want to kill bosses and get the best loot. No loyalty. =(

  5. #105
    My guild hit 1/13H on ten man a couple weeks ago. They raid two nights/week for 2.5 hours per session. They don't call themselves casual but they sure aren't hardcore. So they've essentially gotten to the same point as your guild in under half the time spent.

    I'd start going through raid logs to determine whether I was the one who was holding the group back. If I wasn't, I'd be looking to app to a better guild for next tier.

    If you're good with 3 nights, you should find a guild that will get more bosses down while running three nights. If you're good with 1/13H, you should find an equally progressed guild that has a shorter raid schedule.

  6. #106
    Like others have said, what is or is not "acceptable progression" is up to you. For me, having a good time during the raid is more important than how fast we progress. I recently left my guild whom I had server transferred with when it started feeling like progression was more important than the people. The way I see it, if it takes a week or a month to clear a dungeon it's all the same end result and we're still going to farm it over and over again for months on end until there's something new to do. I'd rather enjoy the time I spend in there (and no that doesn't mean screwing around and standing in fire, it means laughing and joking with your fellow raiders) than race through it in robot mode just to get it done and over with.

  7. #107
    Many ppl in this thread with heavily distorted perceptions on what general progress level of raiding guilds is. Only about a third of raiding guilds in EU/US have a single heroic boss down (probably closer to just under 40% if you consider not everyone goes for Jin'rokh first). Just over 40% have even cleared 12/12 normal. Median progress is between Dark Animus and Iron Qon normal, up from between Durumu and Primordius just a few weeks ago.

    "Semi-hardcore" covers a very huge range -- both in terms of time spent, in mentality, and in playstyle. You clearly seem like no matter what the designation is that you want faster progress (there are probably guilds that consider themselves full "casual" and have a similar rate of progress, just like there are probably guilds that are trying to be "hardcore" but are maybe barely ahead of you, for whatever reasons).

    So, you have to ask yourself -- are there things that can be done to speed up your current guild's progress (as long as that's what everyone, or a majority at least, wants), or do you need to find a guild that better aligns with your desires ?

    Just remember that folks at mmo-c here have very, very skewed perceptions. They tend to be from higher-end guilds. Just the fact they read/write about WoW outside of the game puts them at a fraction of the population (and also remember that raiders themselves are a fraction of the population). I've seen progress-rate polls on here that indicate that mmo-c readers are a much, much more progressed sample than the greater population. Even at your level of progress, sure, reading on here you'll feel well behind -- but you are ahead of the curve, and there are people probably even on your server that wish they had normal full cleared by this point.

    So, yeah, again -- try to remove yourself from the noise, and ask yourself what you want. Are you having fun where you are ? Is there another guild with as good or better atmosphere but a progress rate you'd prefer ? How much of the atmosphere could you sacrifice for a better progress rate (not that this will have to be the case) ?
    Except that those guilds you are talking about, who are at Iron Qon normal mode at this time, can't be classified as "raiding guilds. Sure, they are from the same guild, and they might raid, but what, without any kind of standards, leadership or communication? The goals of those guilds are not to progress, it's to just "play the game".

    The OP is in a guild that considers themselves a "semi-hardcore raiding guild". This implies that it's a guild with raiding as their MAIN focus. Because of this, the OPs guild is not compareable to what you consider to be "the majority" of guilds out there. The median for overall player/guild kills in this Tier, might lie at Iron Qon normal, but for actual "raiding guilds", it's FAR higher.

    To OP: If you are confident in your own abilities, I suggest you start looking for a new home. 1/13 HC for a 3 day guild that classifies themselves as "semi-hardcore", is at this point, very fucking horrible. That coming from the Officer of a 3 day semi-hardcore guild with 11/13 25HC, and I consider that to be slow/shitty progress.
    Last edited by ThrashMetalFtw; 2013-07-24 at 03:19 AM.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
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  8. #108
    I only had to read the first few posts to make me realize this would turn into an epeen measuring thread. Keep feeding the epeen all, its growing....



    ***** I was quick to post and should have read more into the thread as helpful answers have been reported. My apologies for the negative thinking *****
    Last edited by TheMeat420; 2013-07-24 at 03:37 AM.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Crysthalica View Post
    If you raid 3.5 hours for three nights a week, 1/13H is really, really poor. My current guild just got Ra-den with 4h / 3 nights a week, and my last guild was 10/13H with the same schedule before we stopped raiding mid-June.
    Thats an opinion not a fact at all. The fact is it sounds like they don't care too much to try very much so in actuality it is quite decent performance. The only real answer is if you are unhappy leave.

  10. #110
    "Acceptable" is a matter of opinion.
    If you think the result is low given the time/effort then either talk to senior members to see if there is room for improvement if you like the guild.
    Otherwise perhaps look for alternatives if you can provide sufficient evidence that you are not contributing to being held back.

  11. #111
    Deleted
    Personally I would say if you've been raiding Throne since its release and only got 1/13H with that raiding schedule its really really poor. Since there's plenty of guilds out there with similar schedule and done 13/13H awhile now, so if you wanna call it acceptable is all about what you think.

  12. #112
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    What sticks out to me is:
    It's common where we'll reach a difficult boss and wipe forever on it without us seeming to actually get better with attempts.
    This makes me think you're not having fun, or you're disturbed by the lack of leadership/improvement/whatever-is-missing.

    It's not really the number of bosses you have down, but whether your raid experience is satisfying you. My interpretation is, it's not.

    So, you could either try to find a different guild that suits your desires better, or see if there is a way you could help your group learn a little faster. I'm not able to say which would be better for you.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Stabb View Post
    Personally I would say if you've been raiding Throne since its release and only got 1/13H with that raiding schedule its really really poor. Since there's plenty of guilds out there with similar schedule and done 13/13H awhile now, so if you wanna call it acceptable is all about what you think.
    743 guilds are 13 of 13 heroic. If that's your measuring stick then your bound to be disappointed.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    It's maybe the top 5% of the player population. Is that "casual"?
    The whole casual vs hardcore thing makes no sense because these two words have no meaning whatsoever.

    So, instead, let's just say that 1/13H for a guild that has been raiding since the start of the tier for 9-10 hours a week is bad. Which it is.

  15. #115
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    Except that those guilds you are talking about, who are at Iron Qon normal mode at this time, can't be classified as "raiding guilds. Sure, they are from the same guild, and they might raid, but what, without any kind of standards, leadership or communication? The goals of those guilds are not to progress, it's to just "play the game".

    The OP is in a guild that considers themselves a "semi-hardcore raiding guild". This implies that it's a guild with raiding as their MAIN focus. Because of this, the OPs guild is not compareable to what you consider to be "the majority" of guilds out there. The median for overall player/guild kills in this Tier, might lie at Iron Qon normal, but for actual "raiding guilds", it's FAR higher.

    To OP: If you are confident in your own abilities, I suggest you start looking for a new home. 1/13 HC for a 3 day guild that classifies themselves as "semi-hardcore", is at this point, very fucking horrible. That coming from the Officer of a 3 day semi-hardcore guild with 11/13 25HC, and I consider that to be slow/shitty progress.
    Hey, this is about the most stupid thing I've ever seen. The guilds who try and progress through the normalmodes even now is as much of a raiding guild as the full clear guilds. But with compleatly different standards in playerquality organisation and raidleading. You can sit on your high horse with 11/13 which is still not a full clear with pretty much Dark Animus being the only hard heroic boss you've downed but the fact is that badly progressed guilds might try just as hard at progress as highly progressed guilds - they just have a very hard time getting and keeping proper recruits since they have to weed out the lesser skilled players dragging the raid down. I'm sure you guys have your fair share of raiders who are dragging you down - and being an officer I'm sure you are aware of how hard it is to find good replacements, since the good people are probably looking to apply to the 13/13 guilds.

  16. #116
    my guild is 13/13 heroic and we clear that in about 2½ hours :P

    If you got trouble, this late in the expansion to down more than 1 boss on heroic then consider either of the following:

    - Quit the Guild and find a better.
    - Replace everyone who makes the same mistakes over and over again(Yeah finding people for a guild with 1 heroic down is pretty hard, good people).
    - Go 10 Man, bring your 10 best raiders and get the EXP you need.
    - Find a friend on a really good guild, show him what you can do, if you can utilize everything possible for your gear. Then there's nothing bad to do about it.
    as most guilds with 8 heroics + CAN allow some slack for those farm bosses, if you'll be doing less dps than their dps.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevkul View Post
    The whole casual vs hardcore thing makes no sense because these two words have no meaning whatsoever.

    So, instead, let's just say that 1/13H for a guild that has been raiding since the start of the tier for 9-10 hours a week is bad. Which it is.
    But is it bad? I mean, those 95% of the players with less progression -- would they have been that far along, if they raided that much? I suggest no, for the vast majority of them.

    I'd say 1/13H is "not as good" as more progressed raiders, even if that group raids that much. But by no reasonable objective standard can it be called "bad".
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    But is it bad? I mean, those 95% of the players with less progression -- would they have been that far along, if they raided that much? I suggest no, for the vast majority of them.

    I'd say 1/13H is "not as good" as more progressed raiders, even if that group raids that much. But by no reasonable objective standard can it be called "bad".
    I wouldn't call it bad. I detest the fact that some folks think everything in WoW is either "okay" or "bad" and that's it.

    I would say, though, that the OP's expectations aren't being met, and if he was with a different more organized/shit-together group, they would be somewhat more met. They would be met more like 4/13H or 6/13H or whatever. I don't know what OP really wants out of the game but most likely the group he is with isn't quite the right group for him.

  19. #119
    Hey, this is about the most stupid thing I've ever seen. The guilds who try and progress through the normalmodes even now is as much of a raiding guild as the full clear guilds. But with compleatly different standards in playerquality organisation and raidleading. You can sit on your high horse with 11/13 which is still not a full clear with pretty much Dark Animus being the only hard heroic boss you've downed but the fact is that badly progressed guilds might try just as hard at progress as highly progressed guilds - they just have a very hard time getting and keeping proper recruits since they have to weed out the lesser skilled players dragging the raid down. I'm sure you guys have your fair share of raiders who are dragging you down - and being an officer I'm sure you are aware of how hard it is to find good replacements, since the good people are probably looking to apply to the 13/13 guilds.
    Pretty sure I said I consider our progress lf 11/13 25HC to be bad/slow aswell, where is that high horse you are talking about? Also pretty sure that makes any guild with 1/13 HC at this point (considering they haven't been close to disbanding/having to cancel raids, or just started raiding), pretty bad, no matter their reasoning behind it.

    OP asked a question, is his guild where they are supposed to be? No matter how much some ppl refuses to believe it, the ONLY legit answer to that question is: No.

    As for guilds still progressing in normal modes, actually read the post you quoted. Guilds still progressing on normal modes (which are regularly cleared by pugs on good servers), obviously have no real leadership/goal/standard. Being in the same guild and just entering a raid to have fun, makes you a casual guild, not a raiding guild. The OP is in a guild that considers itself a semi-hardcore RAIDING guild. That instantly makes it impossible and improper to compare his guild to any guild that are still playing normal modes.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
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  20. #120
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert3620 View Post
    743 guilds are 13 of 13 heroic. If that's your measuring stick then your bound to be disappointed.
    I stopped caring about the numbers of guilds cleared a loooong time ago so dont worry.

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