Russia, Gay's and the 2014 Olympics

[Jackmoves]

Considering one is a consenting adult and the other is a child might have something to do with it...

His example made me spit my tea out. oh man, thats good humour, good humour. Makes you fear for humanity when some people don't realize the difference between a kid and a adult.

[Odina]

In this particular case, your views (or rather, your sexual identity) could get you arrested or deported if you go to participate or spectate at a major international sports competition next year. I'd say that the participating countries have a right to know how safe their citizens will be while visiting that country. If you feel that there may be danger to them being there, then I'd say this is a perfectly acceptable time to bring those policies and practices into question, before it leads to a major or minor incident.

Or you do like in the past and make your voice heard by boycotting the games and bringing international attention that way rather than trying to stir up shit while you are in a country you know it is not safe to stir up shit in! I'm not saying shit should not be stired up in Russia but you must be smart about it... like don't go to a middle eastern country with a sweedish volleyball team and protest burkas by having them parade around town with bikinis to make your point...your just asking for trouble. Same thing here i'm all for the protesting and getting it out there and tryign to help the russians that are being persecuted...just in the proper way and a way that is not conductive to peopel being injured!

[klimon]

So how does it prove any of your points? It doesn't Actually it contradicts them. People kill people for various reasons. People get arrested and go to prison for murder regardless of who they killed - gay or straight. There's no condoning (the only point of yours that is relevant to this)

Because in post #304 your specifically said that gays were not being killed, whereas blacks were. I think that pointing out the fact that people in Russia (as well as the US, Africa, really all over the world) are killed regularly for being gay. It does happen.

As it regards being condoned, the protest linked in the OP led to the arrest of 20-some (peaceful) demonstrators and 1 of the (violent) counter-demonstrators, while in the alley more homosexuals were beaten by men in masks. I am sure you have your own working definition of what it means to condone behavior. This is a pretty good example of what mine is.

[Sett]

Of course there are. There are four types of gay male, as I said. You'll find that you pretty much are identical to someone in the same category as you give or take Kylie Minogue etc etc..

Gay culture shouldn't even exist. A sexual orientation is just who you sleep with. Thats it. You can sleep with whomever you like in my opinion. Building a whole lifestyle around it was just moronic and I won't be dissuaded otherwise.

If all you really want is to integrate with society then why gay this, gay that, gay this, gay that. Just wear the same clothes, listen to the same things, do the same things, go to the same places. Holing up in gay bars isn't helping you become part of society.

I'm actually starting to see the angle you are coming from. However, realize that there are people who will not even allow for integration to happen. The whole 'gay this and that' can't be fully blamed on one side. There is an equal force that stirs embers so to say to keep this issue, this debate, the whole thing into a mess like it is today.

I will vouch that I do not have the mindset of being 'different' or wanting to be a special little snowflake in society. However, certain people wish to stomp on my rights, my body, and pretty much control what I can do as a human being. That's not going to get me to be silent in the community. That's when people usually get pissed off and start being vocal. And rallying to 'gay this gay that'.

I guess. Just my two cents. Again, plenty of what you have typed makes sense on paper. But people are far too fickle with emotion strings, social issues, and religious ones.

[Puck]

Yet you called me the enemy, for not caring about you or your plight. I haven't called a single gay person an offensive name.

Your blatant generalizations and stereotypes are equally offensive. If anything, you're worse than the bigots. They've been brainwashed from a young age to believe what they believe, but not you, because I think you're smarter than that.

[Elim Garak]

They were killed because they're gay.

So what? Was it the government that killed them? Did police condone the killings? Was no one arrested? Did police not begin the investigation?
Do you even know what is this argument about? No one claimed that gays don't get killed by some crazies.

[Notos]

Holing up in gay bars isn't helping you become part of society.

Gay men go to gay bars because it's safe for them there. They wouldn't get yelled at or beaten for holding hands or kissing or, you know, doing the same stuff straight people do at bars. Funny how you say gay people should integrate but the moment they do anything to display affection suddenly they're ramming their sexuality down your throat.

[Themius]

"The whole world is watching the Olympics. It is the right time to make noise about it. Because then, things might actually change. Because when something is done in an inappropriate place, the higher the chances it will be noticed. So fuck the Olympics as a mere sports festival. People should turn it into something more than that. And fact is, people have already done that. Starting by the organization"

Did you even see what I was replying to before you popped in? The absurdity of your statement suggests otherwise. I don't believe in using the major athletic event of the world to promote individual political agendas. I'm a major gun enthusiast, but I wouldn't want the NRA using the Olympics as a forum for their agenda either. It's not fair to the athletes to be dragged into the middle of those debates. They are there to compete.

The olympics isn't a mere sports festival and who said that every gay olympian? Otherwise I don't see wtf your issue is.

[Knight Gil]

Did you even see what I was replying to before you popped in? The absurdity of your statement suggests otherwise. I don't believe in using the major athletic event of the world to promote individual political agendas. I'm a major gun enthusiast, but I wouldn't want the NRA using the Olympics as a forum for their agenda either. It's not fair to the athletes to be dragged into the middle of those debates. They are there to compete.

Everything about the Olympic games is political. What can't you understand about that? It's not only about athletes trying to show who runs faster or who throws things longer. If you don't agree with politics on the Games, you better stop watching them.

[klimon]

So what? Was it the government that killed them? Did police condone the killings? Was no one arrested? Did police not begin the investigation?
Do you even know what is this argument about? No one claimed that gays don't get killed by some crazies.

You claimed (in post 304) that in Russia they do not kill gays for being homosexual.

[Brittany]

I want to be left alone. What is it with you people that you think wanting to be left alone = wanting the whole world to love you.

Wear decent clothes in public
Don't make out other than in safe places home/gay bars etc
Don't be overly camp

There. You'll be left alone. Is that so hard? Are you seriously comparing your problems to that of the black people? But then we have "wahh but i should be able to make out where i want and wear bondage gear in public" as I said, you bring it on yourself. Just toning it down a notch outside is not supressing who you are anymore than me knowing not wearing skirts higher than a certain level and keeping my cleavage from showing is probably a good idea if I don't want attention.

Gays think they are so special but it's no more special than blacks, than women and normal white males. You are just one small group out of many groups all with their own problems and prejudices, but you're all so self obsessed.

It's the only rights community that appears to neglect the rights of everyone else as it pushes its own forward. Christians have rights too, yet the gay community just go "oh they're bigoted so forget their rights". Which is bigoted in itself. The gay community is laughable really, demanding everyone respect them while showing no respect for anything other than themselves.

[Lysah]

Yet you called me the enemy, for not caring about you or your plight. I haven't called a single gay person an offensive name. I haven't said it's wrong to sleep with someone of the same gender. I've even said that you should have the right to marry whoever you want.

Yet you still attack me, simply for not supporting your movement. If I came here full of empathy and said "i love hearing the gays plight being rammed down my throat on every news channel and broadcast" you would like me. As I said I didn't like it, you dislike me.

And there it is. You don't just want people to stop oppressing you. You want acceptance and love and not to feel so insecure. And unless the government starts brainwashing people, isn't ever going to happen.

I would rather you flat out insult me than pretend to be on my side while being one of the worst bigots I have seen on this forum in a very long time. You are far more insulting with your mock friendly attitude than you would be if you were outright hostile.

Oh wait, this is exactly what King said in "Letters..."
Guess I'm just repeating myself now.

The sheer amount of people opposing you in this thread should prove that you aren't helping anybody. I got you to tell us all how you really feel and now everyone hates you for it. Think about it. I guess it's our problem though, right. Personality disorders and whatnot.

[Stelio Kontos]

When I started attending the indoctrination centres Americans call college, I was on the fence regarding gay rights. I am Greek Orthodox myself, so I come from a similar religious background as most religious Russians (and others from the Balkans and Eastern Europe).

But as I was exposed to the "gay rights" crowd, I saw nothing but disdain and hatred for my religion. This was quite surprising to me, as learning about the civil rights movement in the US it's obvious faith communities played a vital role. Martin Luther King Jr was a pastor, and he marched with prominent Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox church leaders, along with rabbis and the Muslim community.

So as time has gone on, the view held by most occidentals (westerners) and the bigoted way they talk about any religious views regarding social issues, ended up cementing my view on the issue. I won't condone violence or the killing of gays, but if the Russian government has the backing of the majority of the populace in making laws without being dictated to by less than 5% of the population, more power to them. I'm fine with the Russian laws. I may have been more open to the issue years back, but actually meeting the other side showed me they have no respect or even basic decency for people with religious beliefs. SO I have no reason to support them. At all.

[Deleted]

I dont think the olympics is a stage to discuss this

i think the olympics is the perfect platform to protest against bigotry of any nature if that country holds those views & laws.
there's no way any country with such backward thinking should be allowed to hold any major sporting event & i'm talking about qatar here, also.
those bigots are a disgrace to mankind.

[Khoranth]

You guys do understand that the olympics is one of the most insignificant sporting events in the world. We recently had the olympics in China, and no one cared.

I would think it is a much bigger deal that we will soon have a real sporting event, that the whole world cares about, the world cup in Brazil. Brazil, the country where people stab eachother to death and cut eachothers heads and limbs off at soccer games.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...anhao/2495199/

[Odina]

And my point is why base an entire culture on who you sleep with? Especially if you apparently don't want to stand out and just want a quiet life deep down.

Answer : Exhibitionism. Insecurity. Attention seeking.

You do realize that the gay comunity did not base there entire culture on there sexual orinetation and the striaght culture did right? We are the ones that pointed out how they were SOOOO different from us based on this one little fucking difference and labled them based on it. I don't know many gay or lesbian peopel that lable themselves as GAY right off the bat... if you asked them what they are is mostly breaks down like you or I when you ask it

Canadian / American
Woman / Man
Son / Daughter

ETC ETC

Verry rarely will you hear them first start off with " Hi my name is XXX and I'm gay" ... however if you hear straight peoepl talk its "Ooo thats XXX hes gay ... but hes really cool".

To think that they labled themselves and basically set themselved up to be austrasized by many is rediculous! No one ever goes 'hey I want to be singled out and potentially hated for something I can't change can you all define by by it going forward".

[Jaxi]

The olympics isn't a mere sports festival and who said that every gay olympian? Otherwise I don't see wtf your issue is.

Do I have to explain it again?

My issue is the Olympics being used to promote political agendas. Do you want an example? Is that what you're looking for?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Su...ympics_boycott
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Su...ympics_boycott

Here are two examples on the extreme side. Athletes were dragged into the middle of a political pissing contest.

- - - Updated - - -

Everything about the Olympic games is political. What can't you understand about that? It's not only about athletes trying to show who runs faster or who throws things longer. If you don't agree with politics on the Games, you better stop watching them.

Would you care to explain or are you going to continue to spout the same argument over and over again?

[Knight Gil]

They were killed because they're gay.

So what?

Nothing else to add here. I suggest everyone to start ignoring this kind of shit, as its clear we're leading with the worse kind of homophobe here: a violent one

Would you care to explain or are you going to continue to mindlessly rabble the same point?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Games

Here, educate yourself a little bit on it's history, organization, ideals, and politics.

[The One Percent]

The best way to combat it is to not go to or watch the Olympics while it's in Russia.

[Elim Garak]

Because in post #304 your specifically said that gays were not being killed, whereas blacks were. I think that pointing out the fact that people in Russia (as well as the US, Africa, really all over the world) are killed regularly for being gay. It does happen.

Blacks were being killed legally, en masse. Even by police.
Some gays are getting killed by some crazies.
Apples and oranges.
I think straight people should protest the killings of the straight people. because they are regularly killed in greater numbers than any other group. DISCRIMINATION.

As it regards being condoned, the protest linked in the OP led to the arrest of 20-some (peaceful) demonstrators and 1 of the (violent) counter-demonstrators, while in the alley more homosexuals were beaten by men in masks. I am sure you have your own working definition of what it means to condone behavior. This is a pretty good example of what mine is.

Peaceful demonstrators don't get arrested in Russia, unless they don't have permission (that they cba to get, or were denied on requested date or place).
Violent counter-demonstrator arrested. Condoning indeed.
And if there were people beaten in alley by people in masks - why no one called the police? They are not telepathic you know. But continue to twist it however you want. I don't care. I'm not even sure that's the truth about the alley, because photos show only 1-2 bleeding guys.