Could Sylvanas conquer the Eastern Kingdoms?

[Defengar]

Tirion is a human. And humans have this little thing where they willingly paralyse themselves for 8+ hours each day so that they dont die of exhaustion.


Thats when you insert knife into their throat.

Tirion also is a beacon of something that in Warcraft is known as "the light". And it can give its wielders not just inhuman levels of strength, awareness, endurance, and healing, it also has a tendency to make undead flesh react the same way the nazi's did when the saw inside of the Ark of the Covenant in Raiders of The Lost Ark...

[Durenek]

They could hit stormwind first and then take ironforge out via the tram though couldn't they?

[Defengar]

To put it differently, Azeroth belongs to the future lich Queen unless she does something outrageously stupid (like a high risk massive expansion, or betraying the Horde), or unless the Horde comes to it's senses and betrays her (the sooner they do, the better chance they'll have of beating her).

Not really. The alliance leaders are not completely retarded. They likely already know this is a long game Sylvannas is playing. so their going to be playing defense. And wearing her forces down while taking as little casualties of their own as possible. The worgen, who cannot be raised, are a big part of this strategy.

[Mehrunes]

I'd like to see her try, her supply lines would be stretched so far and so thin it would be really easy to snap them off and encircle the main army. Russian tactics mate.

Because she has a fuckton of opposition in Lordaeron right now, am I right? It's not like Gnomes, Dwarves and humans fought on multiple fronts all throughout Garrosh's Horde-Alliance war all over Azeroth for years, while Forsaken did not. She totally didn't have over two years when she was undisturbed to conquer as much of Lordaeron as she pleases. Especially if she launches a major offensive when the Alliance is sending a major part of its troops to take down Garrosh, with most of its intel also focused on Orgrimmar. While Sylvanas most likely sends a token "Hey Thrall, I'm on the winni... errr, your side" force.

But back to to conquering Lordaeron. Who can oppose her from taking Alterac? The remaining shreds of Syndicate and some random bunch of Ogres? Arathi? Stromgarde is divided between even more Syndicate, even more Ogres with some Trolls and humans. Each group hates the other two. And humans took a hit when Galen was killed and resurrected as a Forsaken and sent Horde players to retrieve Trol'kalar. There's also Refuge Pointee, which has absolute shit defense capabilities against even conventional warfare, let alone the Blight. Tirisfal is secured from the remains of remains of Scarlet's Crusade remains, Hillsbrad and Silverpine fronts are secured, Western Plaguelands front is secured (unless Sylvanas decides to take Scholomance for the Forsaken, since Argent Crusade didn't show any interest in it; even then, it has been wiped out of the Scourge), Arathi front is established and the humans there weakened. Gilneas Liberation Front was forced into submission and Bloodfang took a hit in Silverpine AND then in Hillsbrad.

The only remotely dangerous Alliance force is in Hinterlands, and Hinterlands can be taken last. And even then, the Wildhammers sent a force to Ironforge to establish their part of council and you can see some of their troops in Pandaria.

And since when do Forsaken need large enough amounts of supplies?

Edit: Oh, and I disagree that she should expand into Wetlands, it would create too large a front. But there is absolutely nothing on her side of Thandol Span that would stop her from sending a force to destroy it and cut Lordaeron off from Arathi off from Lordaeron reinforcements.

And one last thing, since you brought up supply lines. Why is it that in every thread the Alliance players whine about Cataclysm's losses, they bring up their loss in Andorhal, when it had NO supply lines at all? Not "stretched too thin". None at all.

because he's always alone in the middle of the battlefield with no argent paladins to stand guard while he sleeps, right? right??

Tirion alone could do extreme damage, the argent crusade with him would be an good match for sylvanas & the forsaken.

Because he is totally immune to the Blight, right? Right? Oh, wait, Bolvar wasn't immune, and Tirion won't be immune either. And we shouldn't rule out another spider infestation that would paralyze the almighty Argent Crusade.

the draenei guy posted earlier the light would most likely shield him, ala LIGHT GRANT ME ONE FINAL BLESSING! style. where he was incapacitated, and thats if by some long shot a forsaken assasin managed to sneak by the guards. The Ashbringer is guarded, like it or not.

And how is he going to ask the Light for one, final-er blessing when he's asleep and stabbed in the throat?

[Defengar]

They could hit stormwind first and then take ironforge out via the tram though couldn't they?

The tram can easily be collapsed. Its a glass tunnel underneath millions of tons of earth and water.

[Khadgar]

They could hit stormwind first and then take ironforge out via the tram though couldn't they?

Yes exactly, if she takes out Stormwind first she would certainly succeed in conquering Ironforge after.

[Fus Ro Yay]

There's actually quite a few in Blade's Edge Mountains heh

that's a problem i mentioned briefly earlier, about whats in lore and what's in game (your character)
and even if there were impaled dragons all over the place, how would they get them down, and even worse, how would she get these bodies to a safe location without allerting anyone? if forsaken troops started gathering a shitton of dragon bones someone is bound to get suspicious & investigate

and we still have problem one
ps: would love to see undead dragons flying patrolling undead terretories on a later note

They could hit stormwind first and then take ironforge out via the tram though couldn't they?

how? we've pointed out several times how illogical it is that she could march an entire army down there, let alone have that army supplied. she would get blown out of the sky and rolled over by siege engines long before she gets any chance to use her oh so precious plague.

[Deleted]

if the forsaken would start too blight the living shit out of every. they aint doing that now since the Horde holds them back for the most part, they still use it agianst the Horde will. but image if it goes uncontrolled, then you got some major issues too deal with as alliance.

Ironforge will pose a big challenge, but if they can capture certain high points then can simply start rolling in blight from the air vents and then big problems will arise in the city.

though the overall alliance army will probally pose too much of a challenge that they cant face alone, except if they can take them piece by piece replenishing their troops when they go. if that happens its Bye Bye eastern Kingdom alliance forces.

[Defengar]

Because he is totally immune to the Blight, right? Right? Oh, wait, Bolvar wasn't immune, and Tirion won't be immune either. And we shouldn't rule out another spider infestation that would paralyze the almighty Argent Crusade.



And how is he going to ask the Light for one, final-er blessing when he's asleep and stabbed in the throat?

Bolvar wasn't ever even in the same league as Tirion as far as holy power goes.
Tirion is THE ASHBRINGER. The Ashbringer sword is an object, but it also places its name as a title upon the bearer. His holy power is so strong he can literally turn a group of undead to dust with a wave of his hand if he wants, and even most powerful undead would last no more than a single blow from the sword.
He is one of the most powerful characters currently active in WoW lore. And one of the most powerful light users in all of Azeroths history.
His power burns so bright that any blight cloud before him would be vaporized before its cleansing power.


You really think the leader of the argent crusade sleeps unsecured, unguarded, and without one eye open? This is a man who spent over a decade living alone in the plaguelands remember.

[Fus Ro Yay]

You really think the leader of the argent crusade sleeps unsecured, unguarded, and without one eye open? This is a man who spent over a decade living alone in the plaguelands remember.

thanks for pointing this out, seems like people keep ignoring this

[Mehrunes]

that's a problem i mentioned briefly earlier, about whats in lore and what's in game (your character)
and even if there were impaled dragons all over the place, how would they get them down, and even worse, how would she get these bodies to a safe location without allerting anyone? if forsaken troops started gathering a shitton of dragon bones someone is bound to get suspicious & investigate

and we still have problem one
ps: would love to see undead dragons flying patrolling undead terretories on a later note

Well, Helcular was apprentice to Kel'Thuzad himself and almost transformed himself into a lich. He could be powerful enough to raise some lesser dragons. And I agree that frost wyrms patrolling Forsaken territories, at least their core areas, would be awesome. Or emberwyrms, or magmawyrms (these two kinds of undead dragons were absolutely underused). Or some remains of the frostbrood that survived war on the Lich King. But personally I want some remaining San'layn to join the Forsaken. Blizz should have used them isntead of Val'kyr. After all both them and Sylvanas are undead Sindorei, that were members of Quel'Thalas' military in life (with Sylvanas being their leader then). They would fit perfectly. And I'd love to see Lana'thel's model used again (all other ICC bosses with unique models had their models re-used).

how? we've pointed out several times how illogical it is that she could march an entire army down there, let alone have that army supplied. she would get blown out of the sky and rolled over by siege engines long before she gets any chance to use her oh so precious plague.

Well, technically Forsaken have a large naval fleet and Stormwind is located by the sea.

Bolvar wasn't ever even in the same league as Tirion as far as holy power goes.
Tirion is THE ASHBRINGER. The Ashbringer sword is an object, but it also places its name as a title upon the bearer. His holy power is so strong he can literally turn a group of undead to dust with a wave of his hand if he wants, and even most powerful undead would last no more than a single blow from the sword.
He is one of the most powerful characters currently active in WoW lore. And one of the most powerful light users in all of Azeroths history.
His power burns so bright that any blight cloud before him would be vaporized before its cleansing power.


You really think the leader of the argent crusade sleeps unsecured, unguarded, and without one eye open? This is a man who spent over a decade living alone in the plaguelands remember.

The first Ashbringer died from being stabbed in the back. I still don't see how Tirion is immune to the Blight. He was not immune to magic block of ice either, remember?

Edit: I'm not saying a rogue sneaking in is plausible, but it's not impossible, as some of the Alliance players said (hurr durr, Light's final blessing and crap like that)

Edit2: Oh, forgot to adress that. First of all, I appear to not have gotten the memo with holy power ranking. But, the first Ashbringer, who was at least as powerful as Fordring (and definitely had more udnead kills) was resurrected and enslaved by Kel'thuzad. Bolvar couldn't be broken for a very long time by the Lich King himself. Tell me again how much more powerful than Bolvar Tirion is. And if Alexandors could be killed by stabbing, there's no way in Twisting Nether that Fordring would sruvive plague bomb to his face.

[Verdugo]

Bolvar wasn't ever even in the same league as Tirion as far as holy power goes.
Tirion is THE ASHBRINGER. The Ashbringer sword is an object, but it also places its name as a title upon the bearer. His holy power is so strong he can literally turn a group of undead to dust with a wave of his hand if he wants, and even most powerful undead would last no more than a single blow from the sword.
He is one of the most powerful characters currently active in WoW lore. And one of the most powerful light users in all of Azeroths history.
His power burns so bright that any blight cloud before him would be vaporized before its cleansing power.

So far we have killed many things, among them manifestations of emotions and even voidgod, what makes you think that human channeling light is more powerfull.

And no, we are not talking about plot armor now.

[Davemetalhead]

Yes exactly, if she takes out Stormwind first she would certainly succeed in conquering Ironforge after.

You can't bypass and leave a dangerous foe like Ironforge behind you - that's just begging to lose. IF would need to be taken out of the fight before getting anywhere near SW.

[Fus Ro Yay]

Well, technically Forsaken have a large naval fleet and Stormwind is located by the sea.

The first Ashbringer died from being stabbed in the back. I still don't see how Tirion is immune to the Blight. He was not immune to magic block of ice either, remember?

Edit: I'm not saying a rogue sneaking in is plausible, but it's not impossible, as some of the Alliance players said (hurr durr, Light's final blessing and crap like that)

quick answer since im in LFR
hecular mayhaps, but then how about the bones? see earlier post

naval fleet: stormwind has a bigger one, and a airborne fleet, i think they would be okay.

Stabbed in the back by his own son, now the assasin is not tirions son so i dont think the guards will let him of so easily.

edit: for the "light blessing" you commented, im willing to bet that the light would protect him against a cheap shot, sadly no way to say unless blizzard tells us so :x

[Zaelsino]

The only way she could manage this is if every single faction on Azeroth with a relevant stake here (Alliance, Horde, Argent Crusade, etc.) is stricken with plot-induced stupidity. No one in their right mind should want her to extend her "mark" much farther.

[Deleted]

The gates of Ironforge are a bottleneck for both attackers and defenders. Since the plague has no effect on the Forsaken, you can bomb the defenders outside continuously until the attackers get inside and once that happens, the plague can spread through the entire city with no where to escape.

[Deleted]

Not really. The alliance leaders are not completely retarded. They likely already know this is a long game Sylvannas is playing. so their going to be playing defense. And wearing her forces down while taking as little casualties of their own as possible. The worgen, who cannot be raised, are a big part of this strategy.

A defensive stance is exactly what Sylvanas needs from the Alliance. Anyhow everybody knows. Not in the least those amongst the Horde. But what is the Horde to do? Betray Sylvanas and lose everything to the Alliance? Or wait until Sylvanas is strong enough to defeat the Alliance, and then be helpless against her once it is done. It's a real catch 22.

The only way I can see out of it is if the Alliance and the Horde secure actual peace; then there'll be no more war, no more dead bodies, and if Sylvanas continues raising them from another source, she'd need to answer to the combined Horde and Alliance.

[Durenek]

how? we've pointed out several times how illogical it is that she could march an entire army down there, let alone have that army supplied. she would get blown out of the sky and rolled over by siege engines long before she gets any chance to use her oh so precious plague.

All it takes is a small group of forsaken infiltrators to drop into Stormwind undetected, with some kind of canister of self perpetuating plague. Think about it. They have dark rangers and rogues and all manner of stealthy dudes. Get them in, plant the plague cannisters. The humans either die, or turn. If they die, the forsake roll in, barricade and redecorate. If they turn even a small faction of the population the humans are distracted trying to put the undead down and to locate the source, allowing the forsaken to roll in, barricade and redecorate.

Meanwhile, the same agents that have brought the plague into Stormwind have hitched a ride into Ironforge on the tram. While there they could either distribute more plague, or hide out in the shadier districts to act as sleeper agents on the off change that Sylvanas decides to move on Ironforge. Having agents inside would help any war effort the Forsaken try to make on that front.

Edit: This is of course making the pretty enormous assumption that no other factions decide to clusterfuck the Forsaken for even contemplating this kind of shit.

With something like the plague in WoW, a small group could potentially take a city out far, far easier than an army.

[Mehrunes]

quick answer since im in LFR
hecular mayhaps, but then how about the bones? see earlier post

naval fleet: stormwind has a bigger one, and a airborne fleet, i think they would be okay.

Stabbed in the back by his own son, now the assasin is not tirions son so i dont think the guards will let him of so easily.

edit: for the "light blessing" you commented, im willing to bet that the light would protect him against a cheap shot, sadly no way to say unless blizzard tells us so :x

I'm not dismissing the logistics. Although there have been some dragon bones in Lordaeron to animate. I remember one free Forsaken raising a frost wyrm with some artifact in either one of the comics or mangas (part of Sunwell trilogy perhaps?). And they could always import some from Northrend. It's not really overseen by the Alliance these days.

Stormwind fleet is split with large part of it being used to transport troops to Orgrimmar. No doubt some of it will be lost. And the last time Forsaken navy met human fleet, in Howling Fjords, the humans lost. Yup, totally gonna be ok. Especially if the only point of that Forsaken diversion would be plague bombing the shit out of all ships and harbour.

The stabbing by his son was about the person I quoted portraying Ashbringer (the person) as some magical being immune to death, and in what he quoted, to the Blight. If Alexandros died to the sword, Tirion can die to the Blight. For god's sake, Lich King was visibly weakened by it.

And the light's blessing was less about the stabbing itself and more about it happening in his sleep (as improbable as it sounds). I really don't think it's something Tirion does subconsciously.

Edit: The Tirion's son part inspired me. Sylvanas should totally track Taelan's grave and raise him. That would be hilarious.

[Azmordis]

I think it could be a plausible fight.

For instance, Sylvannas, who hates everyone/thing living now that she had the sweet embrace of death stolen from her, is struggling with her own memories and feelings of hopelessness. She has banished herself from ever reconciling with her past and that creates rage.

I would suggest this as a plan:

She could walk her armies underneath the oceans to destroy the tram to prevent reinforcements, resupply, and escape. She could then starve out Iron Forge or even seal the doors with explosives and pump the vents full of the plague.

She has numerous mages and warlocks that she could use to create portals into and around both SW and IF to deploy plague bombs and create massive chaos and draw the defenders into too many directions. She was a Ranger-General. She knows tactics both for hit-and-run harrassment and full scale assaults and defenses. She's smart, she's just emotional.

If she ever gave up the last of her humanity (elvanity?) like Arthas did, she would have no hesitation and would be willing to be cold and calculating. Old Gods knows she has enough support through some of her Apothecary Guild to go it alone.

Perhaps she doesn't have to go it alone though. She could use the Val'kyr to persuade the Vrykul to join forces with them and create a third faction. Let's bring in the Nerubians who are immune to the plague or just the undead Nerubians which are rejected by their own people. They have already worked with the Forsaken before.

(I would secretly LOVE for Blizzard to split WoW into three sides.)