Could Sylvanas conquer the Eastern Kingdoms?

[MechaMoose]

The forsaken do NOT I repeat DO NOT have undead dragons NONE ZIP NADDA if they didn't bring it out during the Gilnean campaign then chances are they don't have it.

as for Ironforge everyone keeps suggesting blockades, or using air vents or the tram to get plague in but here's the problem

Blockades won't work so long as alliance mages can maintain portal to get supplies as seen in the dark portal battle.

Ironforge doesn't have air vents or at least any in easily accessible areas

as for the tram its not exactly an open vulnerable spot its protected by deep ocean, stone, dirt, and patrolling gnomish subs

Forsakens best bet would be a naval force and hope nobody attacks home base while your out on a campaign

[Deleted]

I give up. So many Sylvanas or Forsagen fanboys that I dont even know what to say. No matter how many people use argumentes They will not find reason. " oh but she FORSAGENS plague, could just wipe out everything, and then ressourcting Dragons,(Since no where have she/the forsagen, done it before, but yeah, ofc they can, and hell they can ressorrect a milion of them, only makes sence -_- ) And then assinate all the dangers people and getting away with it.

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Some one please answer me this. For all the fanboys who say she would be able to take over Eastern kingdom.

1: How will she Be able to get to the citys?
2: How will she Not anger Agen dawn /ebon blade
3: How and why would the horde not go aginst her(Even garrosh was aginst useing the Plague)
4: How would she be able to Fight in a starit up fight? The Forsagen got hardly any Air army, and not any major fleet.
Yes she got the Val'kyr, but They are also mortales, Is it not likely that the alliance Would send a strike team after them? Since she does not have that many of them.

[Blur4stuff]

it's a game and a story that guys made up. nothing has to follow logic. if they want something to happen they make it happen no matter what reasoning you come up with on your own.

[Aquamonkey]

I give up. So many Sylvanas or Forsagen fanboys that I dont even know what to say. No matter how many people use argumentes They will not find reason. " oh but she FORSAGENS plague, could just wipe out everything, and then ressourcting Dragons,(Since no where have she/the forsagen, done it before, but yeah, ofc they can, and hell they can ressorrect a milion of them, only makes sence -_- ) And then assinate all the dangers people and getting away with it.

The Forsaken have always been able to disassemble their bodies and conglomerate into a giant flying dragon. Like Sapphiron but from multiple Forsaken. Duh.

[Bullettime]

I give up. So many Sylvanas or Forsagen fanboys that I dont even know what to say. No matter how many people use argumentes They will not find reason. " oh but she FORSAGENS plague, could just wipe out everything, and then ressourcting Dragons,(Since no where have she/the forsagen, done it before, but yeah, ofc they can, and hell they can ressorrect a milion of them, only makes sence -_- ) And then assinate all the dangers people and getting away with it.

- - - Updated - - -

Some one please answer me this. For all the fanboys who say she would be able to take over Eastern kingdom.

1: How will she Be able to get to the citys?
2: How will she Not anger Agen dawn /ebon blade
3: How and why would the horde not go aginst her(Even garrosh was aginst useing the Plague)
4: How would she be able to Fight in a starit up fight? The Forsagen got hardly any Air army, and not any major fleet.
Yes she got the Val'kyr, but They are also mortales, Is it not likely that the alliance Would send a strike team after them? Since she does not have that many of them.

This is what some tend to ignore. Even if Sylvanas grew the balls to go conquest mode, she already has the Argent Crusade and Ebon Blade ready to come down hard on her. They're watching her very closely after Gilneas and Andorhal. They wouldn't just sit back while she went on a mass plaguing and necromancy rampage.

The only difference between Sylvanas and the Lich King is the size of their army and the will to use it. Even if Sylvanas grew the balls to try her luck against the Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, and Worgen, there's no way she would also be able to hold up against the Kirin Tor, Ebon Blade, and Argent Crusade who would back up the Alliance. Especially when she would be on her own. The Horde forces on Kalimdor would be too indebted to the Alliance to send aid to help her and the Blood Elves already disprove of her use of necromancy. It would be the Forsaken vs the world and she would be crushed handily. She simply doesn't have the troop numbers to contend.

[Durandro]

The only difference between Sylvanas and the Lich King is the size of their army and the will to use it. Even if Sylvanas could put up a fight in a battle against the Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, and Worgen, there's no way she would also be able to hold up against the Ebon Blade and Argent Crusade who would back up the Alliance.

And at that point the rest of the Horde would either abandon all support or they'd march on Undercity themselves like they did during the 'Forsaken Rebellion' (honestly in light of more recent events, I have to wonder how rebellious they really were).

The Forsaken are a dangerous ally to have already, having them violate the 'no Plague' rule would piss them off. At the very least the Blood Elves would sever relations, Lor'themar's response to Sylvanas' request to raise fallen Blood Elves alone tells us what they think of it!

[Aquamonkey]

The only difference between Sylvanas and the Lich King is the size of their army and the will to use it.

No, the difference between Sylvanas and the Lich King is that the LK kept his underlings as mindslaves and feasted on their souls for power; Sylvanas doesn't.

[Fullmetal89]

With her OP ability to raise the dead including her enemies dead and adding that to her force. I would say she would have no problem conquering everything but Iron Forge. Unless she can place spies inside the city itself. Or somehow attack it via the tram-way, which would probably be destroyed in the event she takes Stormwind. I would say its near impossible. The horde couldn't do it back when Doomhammer was warchief, and they had Gul'dans death knights. So I don't think it would be any different now, unless she has some kind of dues ex machina device hidden somewhere. I should add that she would probably have a hard time with Silvermoon only due to the fact that they have now regained their Sunwell and all the power that comes with it. Only reason Arthas was able to take the "golden city" was because he had Frostmourne and inside help. Otherwise he would have been destroyed by its magical defenses.

[ngc2440]

With her OP ability to raise the dead including her enemies dead and adding that to her force. I would say she would have no problem conquering everything but Iron Forge. Unless she can place spies inside the city itself. Or somehow attack it via the tram-way, which would probably be destroyed in the event she takes Stormwind. I would say its near impossible. The horde couldn't do it back when Doomhammer was warchief, and they had Gul'dans death knights. So I don't think it would be any different now, unless she has some kind of dues ex machina device hidden somewhere. I should add that she would probably have a hard time with Silvermoon only due to the fact that they have now regained their Sunwell and all the power that comes with it. Only reason Arthas was able to take the "golden city" was because he had Frostmourne and inside help. Otherwise he would have been destroyed by its magical defenses.

Sure she could take over everything... if we ignore all the various factions that would put an end to her romping around. The Horde and Alliance would team up, again, along with Ebon Hold, Argent Crusade, plus any other faction that cares enough to put their foot down. She may be OP on a one on one fight but would quickly find herself overwhelmed real fast if she tried to wage a fight that large.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Yes. And yet you also assume that the plague spreads like a literal plague, when it doesn't... You also assume it was all of the alliance helping out gilneas, which it wasnt (just nightelves, working with the worgen who were too cursed to really function). You also forget that sylvanas is freaked out about the alliance already (tides of war reference someone else had, with her direct quote). You're also choosing to ignore all other arguments, such as the fact that all of the other factions would be rallying against her (both argents, druids, ebon blade, etc), and even the fact that a small group of gilnean rebels have been giving her so much grief she literally died from it.

So no, I'm not really assuming youre a sexist pig, youre kind of showing that fact off for yourself.

No. It's quite plausible that by now that the Forsaken has created a new plague.

Also, it WAS the Alliance helping. The night elves initially helped, and they were then aided by the 7th legion of the Alliance. That's when the retook Gilneas to a point. They then continued to push into Silverpine, where it came down to Sylvannas being betrayed and assassinated, not "defeated." She then was raised by the Valkyr, and caused the Alliance to flee into Gilneas again.

As far as other factions going against her? That's something that you can't be sure about. The argents would be the most likely to be the first to go against her, but they're not part of the Alliance. Her taking the Eastern Kingdoms doesn't make her their problem, especially if she is doing it in the name of the Horde. Druids would likely stick to their trees and naps.

I fail to see how I have shown that I'm a sexist pig?

[Khadgar]

The forsaken do NOT I repeat DO NOT have undead dragons NONE ZIP NADDA if they didn't bring it out during the Gilnean campaign then chances are they don't have it.

Tell me why the Forsaken wouldn't be able to obtain a undead dragon?

The article on undead dragon's on wowiki pretty much confirms they could..

"Undead dragons are the remains of fallen dragons that have risen and/or been withered through necromancy or other means and originated from the different dragonflights. They can appear usually as reanimated bones. Some are controlled by the Scourge under the Lich King, while others are raised or controlled by other powerful individuals."

Emberwyrms, raised by necromancy from red wyrms of the red dragonflight.
FrostWyrm Frost wyrms, raised by necromancy from wyrms of various dragonflight.
Magmawyrms, raised by necromancy from black wyrms of the black dragonflight.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Undead_dragon

Sylvanas has a few powerful forsaken necromancer's within her ranks that would certainly be capable of raising lesser dead dragon's.

If she's smart she'd wait until she could amass a quality number of them before revealing them to her enemies.

[Florena]

Tell me why the Forsaken wouldn't be able to obtain a undead dragon?

The article on undead dragon's on wowiki pretty much confirms they could..

"Undead dragons are the remains of fallen dragons that have risen and/or been withered through necromancy or other means and originated from the different dragonflights. They can appear usually as reanimated bones. Some are controlled by the Scourge under the Lich King, while others are raised or controlled by other powerful individuals."

Emberwyrms, raised by necromancy from red wyrms of the red dragonflight.
FrostWyrm Frost wyrms, raised by necromancy from wyrms of various dragonflight.
Magmawyrms, raised by necromancy from black wyrms of the black dragonflight.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Undead_dragon

Sylvanas has a few powerful forsaken necromancer's within her ranks that would certainly be capable of raising lesser dead dragon's.

If she's smart she'd wait until she could amass a quality number of them before revealing them to her enemies.

The forsaken have only been shown to use Val'kyr resurrections and not normal necromancy to increase their ranks. Furthermore, it doesn't matter if they COULD go get undead dragons, they HAVEN'T and until they DO then theory-crafting what they could do with them is silly. But if you need a reason here's one, they don't have necromancers as powerful as the cult of the damned did.

[MrMayor]

Not even worth commenting on this thread , so many Forsake fanboys who just don't want to hear/read the truth

[Boogums]

Good point, they could surround Ironforge though and starve it from receiving any supplies outside of the mountain, they would run out of food eventually.

Also Stormwind doesn't have the benefit of being inside a mountain and would be crippled by plague bombing.

Except the Forsaken couldn't attack both Ironforge and Stormwind at the same time, and the Ironforge has the Deeprun Tram. They wouldn't run out of supplies for a LONG time.

[delus]

I think this thread is proof that they need to kill Sylvanas off for the good of the game. Scourge were not a playable faction for a reason and making the forsaken into a demi Scourge was a bad idea. Then maybe they could give the undead playable race some development besides the boring hive mind cult of personality the forsaken have become.Of course making them wake up and realize they have become what they despise the most could have been in the cards all along.

[Bullettime]

No. It's quite plausible that by now that the Forsaken has created a new plague.

Also, it WAS the Alliance helping. The night elves initially helped, and they were then aided by the 7th legion of the Alliance. That's when the retook Gilneas to a point. They then continued to push into Silverpine, where it came down to Sylvannas being betrayed and assassinated, not "defeated." She then was raised by the Valkyr, and caused the Alliance to flee into Gilneas again.

As far as other factions going against her? That's something that you can't be sure about. The argents would be the most likely to be the first to go against her, but they're not part of the Alliance. Her taking the Eastern Kingdoms doesn't make her their problem, especially if she is doing it in the name of the Horde. Druids would likely stick to their trees and naps.

I fail to see how I have shown that I'm a sexist pig?

The Argent Crusade and Ebon Blade are keeping an eye on her as they're finding the differences between her and the Lich King becoming fewer and fewer. If Sylvanas were to go conquest mode and plaguing/raising everything in her path, the Ebon Blade and Argent Crusade would step in to stop her even if it meant joining forces with the Alliance temporarily to fight back. They're already watching her carefully after the way she treated the Gilneas/Silverpine conflict and the atrocities committed in Andorhal and Southshore.

Even the Horde already disproves of Sylvanas's methods. Lor'themar is vocal about that in Siege of Orgrimmar. It was the Tauren who convinced the rest of the Horde to allow the Forsaken into their ranks as they thought they find a cure for their ailment. The Forsaken are basically abominations to the rest of the Horde.

The Horde will be in massive debt to the Alliance post Siege and won't go to Sylvanas's aid, They already don't trust her and find her to be a very dangerous ally. If Sylvanas goes on a rampage, it's more likely for the Horde to step in to aid the Alliance in stopping her than to aid her. Sylvanas has no loyalties and the Horde would even know that if Sylvanas succeeded in conquering Eastern Kingdoms (if she were even capable, which she's not) that it's likely she would turn her focus to them next.

[Khadgar]

But if you need a reason here's one, they don't have necromancers as powerful as the cult of the damned did.

You're wrong, they have at least one in Helcular, who was the apprentice to Kel'Thuzad himself and almost transformed himself into a lich.

He's powerful enough to raise some lesser dragons.

[Matt0193]

They made the pact with Sylvanas to get away from the Lich King, so they would obviously side with her.

Not necessarily. The Val'kyr were tied to Arthas' incarnation of the Lich King's power. They faced a choice when their tie to the Lich King dissipated; eternal oblivion or bond themselves to Sylvanus' necromantic power.

It was the same for the Forsaken undead, though with them having a more corporeal existence as opposed to being something barely more than a ghost they simply gained self control.

Without a host to empower or link them, the Val'kyr seem to fade. If Bolvar offered them their old position in exchange for not sending them to their feared fate, I'd guess they'd probably say yes; especially if Sylvanus has the entire world on her at the time.

[Yakshamash]

You're wrong, they have at least one in Helcular, who was the apprentice to Kel'Thuzad himself and almost transformed himself into a lich.

He's powerful enough to raise some lesser dragons.

And how those dragon would help Sylvanas?

[Aquamonkey]

Not necessarily. The Val'kyr were tied to Arthas' incarnation of the Lich King's power. They faced a choice when their tie to the Lich King dissipated; eternal oblivion or bond themselves to Sylvanus' necromantic power.

It was the same for the Forsaken undead, though with them having a more corporeal existence as opposed to being something barely more than a ghost they simply gained self control.

Without a host to empower or link them, the Val'kyr seem to fade. If Bolvar offered them their old position in exchange for not sending them to their feared fate, I'd guess they'd probably say yes; especially if Sylvanus has the entire world on her at the time.

Not even close to what happened. They did it for freedom, not because they were facing oblivion. Annhylde: "We need you. We are bound to the will of the dormant Lich King. Imprisoned atop Icecrown, possibly for eternity. We hunger for our freedom, as you once hungered for yours." They actually face oblivion by forging the pact with Sylvanas because they take her place in hell when they resurrect her.