Less is more, why WoW isn't what it used to be.

[thunderdragon2]

It gave a rush of adrenaline, and made me eager to get revenge. Unplanned, improvised battle is far more exciting than queuing for it.

As for getting ganked as a low level by a high level, yeah it sucked, but it also inspired me to level up and go do the same.

and then it just becomes a never ending vendetta cycle

[kail]

I'm not sure why everyone remembers getting ganked in such a positive light, the world pvp I remember was more like griefing. If you really want to get griefed, try taking the portal to blasted lands.

Griefing/getting griefed, that is essentially what world pvp starts with. At least back then there was hope that the griefing would turn into a 10v10 fight and growing.

[Socialhealer]

Heroic Mode made raiding so basic.
In ulduar, we had to do special things to unlock heroic mode, then ICC comes out and boom, Heroic Lichking in a flick of a menu switch.
Yes, they've added elite modes to fix this problem, but it doesn't really FIX the problem. This game is becoming nothing but menu's.

kill bosses in different order (iron council) you can do this with the troll council in ICC, instead of following the nuke sul, you can nuke anything you want, it won't give you better loot, but it will make the encounter harder, so i don't see the issue unless you're just QQ'in about more loot.

freya...kill LESS trash LESS....thats exciting? you skipped some trash imbaaa cool...

mimiron...you pressed a button much like pressing a button to set it to heroic.

Thorim, just be fast, wasn't hard to make that 3 minute check, then u just hit him once.

Hodir...wasn't anything different at all more of a challenge mode....u got 3 minutes gogo if u get gold u win more loot.

Yogg+0/1/2/3/4, choose how much help you need? yeh that was one of the better fights.

so really apart from a couple of fights, it's not changed, to call all of ulduars style as amazing compared to changing to heroic now is just rose tinted glasses, and to say oh heroic lich king is just changing the mode......no it was hard work killing all the end wing bosses on heroic, then the fight completely changed, heroic lk was insanely hard didn't need any quirky trash or button to turn it on....

[Deleted]

LFD - All I can say is that it's nothing less than brilliant. Having to spam Trade with "LFG X dungeon" or "LFM Y dungeon" was really frustrating.

Flying Mounts - One of the best, if not the best things that happened to this game. Honestly, I couldn't care less about the "world". I just want to get at my destination faster. The worst thing about MoP is that there are no flying mounts for 85-90 in Pandaria.

Heroic Raids - While I do agree Ulduar was incredible (my favourite raid), it's gonna be time and resource consuming for Blizzard to keep finding new things in the encounter so as to trigger the hard mode when you can just flip it between bosses and then you'll have people whining why content isn't being pumped out faster.

LFR - I don't mind it, helps gear my alts. I do find it lame that people can get parts of the legendary from it though. Then again, it helped me fill in for legendary quest items on my main if I passed spot for a boss on heroic.

Subscription/Payment - I think the sub fee is fine. 15 dollars (or 12 euros for EU) is really not that much for a monthly fee for the ability to play a game almost 24/7 (counting in maintenance hours). I'm very unlikely to use the Blizzard Store but I don't mind it either. If people enjoy what they buy and the company that creates the game and brings content to it gets more money/resources, I'm good with that.

Dailies - This part I agree on. Dailies are EXTREMELY boring and since they brought the Lesser Charms of Good Fortune turning into Elder Charms (for 5.0-5.1) and into Mogu Runes of Fate for 5.2 onwards, they have become close to mandatory to keep up with other people's gear. If these were not in the game, I think dailies would be fine.

PvP complaints - I'm not a PvPer at all, I'll take your word that you can't make gold although it seems weird. Can't you do other stuff while queueing? As for the queueing from the world, I assure you, you will come to hate it very soon if you HAVE to go to certain places to queue for specific BGs.

[KrazyK923]

LFD, This ruined the ability of everyone running to a dungeon, meeting up with a bunch of people and fighting opposing factions.
"Stand's waiting, then all of an sudden a Undead Warlock comes with a group of friends. You try to survive until your friends arrive, then fight them or run into the instance because you're scared." This engaged epic world pvp and allowed people in the world.

Flying Mounts ruined the WORLD aspect of the game. World of Warcraft was exciting because we got to see new areas in the world to explore.
Cataclysm revamped an entire world that we used to love, but they decided to hand out flying mounts at level 60 and increase the rate of quests, not only did this force us to skip over alot of great towns, forests, villages, caves, but it also pushed us out of the "NEW" questing zones alot faster because Exp was too low. Removing flying from kalimdor and eastern kindgoms until level 80, instead of 60.

Heroic Mode made raiding so basic.
In ulduar, we had to do special things to unlock heroic mode, then ICC comes out and boom, Heroic Lichking in a flick of a menu switch.
Yes, they've added elite modes to fix this problem, but it doesn't really FIX the problem. This game is becoming nothing but menu's.

LFR, This design was great, till it was implemented.
Grouped up with 24 random strangers, who won't give a flying hoot about you. Then you have atleast 4 people who queue, put someone on follow, then afks while they're eating chips or watching re runs of Big Bang Theory. Flex modes is supposed to fix this problem, but once again they're implementing it wrong. Remove LFR, and implement Flex mode into normal. That way we can recruit others from diff realms but still be engaged. Heroic Modes would still require a server coordinated group for that current content.

The World is Evolving while World of Warcraft is not.
We still pay $15 a month, and $40 for a new expansion that comes out. I feel it's about time blizzard lowers their price for a month, or remove it completely. Keep the prices for expansions, but remove the monthly fee. That way you can focus on a blizzard store that would engage players.
Like league of legends and their skins. (Helm transmogs was a slap to our face, especially when we pay for this game. I have a Celestial Steed, but epic transmog like that just hurts. HURTS!)

Dailies in Mists of Pandaria are boring and dead.
Not much to comment on this anymore as 5.1 had a good model on dailies and 5.3 does too, although 5.3 quests were over too fast. Have it progress every week like 5.1 dailies did with rep, with a short storyline.

The world of PvP, slapped in the face.
Making gold as a pvper isn't a reality unless you're an enchanter. Make the gold that drops from players you kill higher. All it drops is copper, my repair bill from dying from pets is higher than that. Allow us to once again go out in the world to queue for a battleground and arenas.

a.) The idea of epic fights between factions at stones is a romanticized version of history. More often than not, it was a roflstomping by one faction over another. And despite that, Dungeons are PvE content, not PvP. Wasting my time having to corpse jump into the instance because I'm on the lower population faction wasn't fun, and it certainly wasn't content by any stretch of the imagination.

b.) You shouldn't even be on old school Azeroth past 60. How the hell would pushing back flying from 60 to 80 affect the 1-60? Are you talking about Outland and Northrend? I want fucking flying there. That is old content, and I don't feel like stretching it out. Just don't use a mount if you're so upset about it.

c.) So you're upset that you have to hit a button on your screen instead of hitting a button in the world? I can't even respond to this level of ridiculousness. Moving on.

d.) This point makes no sense. LFR/LFD fill an immensely important hole. And more people are raiding now than before LFR/LFD without question. That was its purpose, and its purpose is being fulfilled. Once again, manipulation of reality is what your actual point is. I always hear about the horrors of the 10 people afking in the raid. Guess what? Fucking kick them. That is the purpose of the system. I just love when people bash LFR/LFD but completely forget how the game worked before it. Spamming trade and LFG for an hour+ (As DPS) looking for a group. It seems to me that you feel wasting our time means the content is better. That is the implication of your entire post. The game has been made to not waste as much time, and clearly its worse off for it.

e.) Absolutely not. I like paying a sub rather than the company trying to nickle and dime their subscribers to pay for keeping the servers afloat. SWTOR says hi, by the way.

f.) Dailies are more interesting than ever. Point is moot.

g.) This point makes no sense.

[ComputerNerd]

Dungeons generally involved half the group not knowing where the entrance was, or demanding summons because they wouldn't get off their backside and leave the city.
And how did dungeon grouping go for those not in a guild, or not asking at sociable hours ?

Adding a button in an encounter which was down to RNG or requiring someone to look it up on a 3rd party website was just wrong.
How about a button which a single person could either activate or deactivate by accident, or even to spite other people when they aren't the leader.

Flying Mounts did nothing to World PvP, which was already dying long before their introduction.
World PvP thrived due to lack of alternatives, which battlegrounds offered.
World PvP was not random ganking, but skirmishes at, or takeovers of a town or quest hub.
Flying should encourage that, allowing for ambushes or reinforcements to otherwise poorly supported locations.
Players don't PvP in the world because they don't want to do something without a bribe or incentive to do so.

Flying is optional for most of the world.
If you want to explore on foot, then do so.
Forced exploration is not fun, even if it appeals to you personally.

You bought a store mount, but complain about the helms.
Makes you a hypocrite and therefore making your argument there pointless.

LFR is aimed at people who are suffering from time constraint issues, which given the artificially raised requirements of normal makes it very difficult to enter traditional raiding.
Flex does not solve that problem, which people like you choose very deliberately to ignore time and time again because it does not support your arrogant opinion.
Players made LFR a necessity, the same players who constantly whine about it because they are too full of themselves to admit that they are the barrier.
Could LFR be harder ? Yes, but it should not be removed.

Dailies are moving in the right direction.
Less mandatory, less gear gating behind reputation.
Making the reputation grind something you should want to work towards, not something you HAVE to work towards with the aim of getting you over some barrier.

[lawow74]

1)Queueable content means you don't stand around spamming LFG to accomplish anything outside of dailies. Also, Challenge Modes, Heroic Scenarios and Flex Raids say hi.

2)Flying mounts let me explore the world MORE, not LESS. Besides, 99% of 'exploration' these days is 'okay, Google search, World of Warcraft hidden stuff'.

3)Flip a switch, hit some object in the raid. Same-same IMO, only guess what? Less opportunity for asshat griefer to lulz and run.

4)See 1)

5)$15 for a month of gameplay versus other entertainment options. Unless you really love a given premium TV channel or get a lot of books/music for cheap, I don't see how it compares. Also, first 'slap in the face'.

6)I was SO GLAD to get REGULAR QUESTS again in 5.3 instead of being forced to grind dailies to see new quests. I agree the 5.1 dailies were a sweet spot in terms of doing the dailies(5 quick dailies and done, not LOL 15 DAILIES ISN'T DOUBLE-GATED GRIND FUN?!?), but that's pretty much it.

7)Don't PvP, can't comment, but something else to do with HP/JP to make gold like in Cata wouldn't go amiss, even if you can(at least on my server)flip to Embersilk and make a killing gouging folks. Also, second slap in the face.

So in summation, more grind =/= more fun, and two slaps in the face scores pretty good on the Troll-o-Meter.

[MrExcelion]

The server transfer service and the ensuing dead realms is at the root of most problems, let's hope these merges fix it.

I am curious if 5.3, the big pvp patch, got people back into PVP or not

[Osmeric]

You know what the worst words are a writer can hear when someone reads his book?

"I don't care about any of these people."

You know what my reaction is to the various characters in WoW? Yep.

[Glorious Leader]

The developers have embraced the spirit of much of what you are asking for in mists. It cost them a whack of subs. Let's take flying mounts for example. You think REMOVING the convenience of flying mounts will encourage players to stay? You think ROBBING them of further convenience will keep people playing? This isn't 2006 anymore people can and will say good bye to warcraft and will do it for even less than the removal of flying mounts. People have shown in mists and cataclysm that they have a VERY low tolerance for the stick... giving them more stick will push them away.

Personally I hope they do everything you want in your list, it would make for an amusing quarterly report day...


Edit: I do think their sub cost should come down that, I mean that's removing a barrier to entry for players. I was no fan of dailies either and they can go down the toilet as well.

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Remember that Greg Street regrets flying mounts as well.

Greg Street is the George Constanza of video game development. He hates flying mounts, well just like Constanza the opposite thing to do would be the successful thing to do. Ergo He should LOVE flying mounts (and he really should) and push for them all over the place.

[StationaryHawk]

You can't seem to make up your mind about what you're complaining about concerning flying mounts. They have absolutely nothing to do with the rate you level at in 1-60 quests, absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you leave Azeroth at lvl58 to go to Outland anyways, and certainly don't stop you from exploring anything.

Hard Mode transitions in Ulduar were interesting on some bosses, but as Blizzard has explained already, there's only so much you can do. Even Mimiron just had a button that engaged Hard Mode.

Blizzard will change to a different payment model (or lack of) when they find it to be more profitable. At the moment, subscription fees are still working for them and they'll continue to charge them. It also seems somewhat hypocritical to put down their newest transmog items while having bought flashy mounts yourself.

[HeedmySpeed]

Flying mounts suck. You are less intimate with the world.

I don't think they should be removed but limited in some way.
Have it on a CD, make Flying be more active than just holding forward.

It's all about balance.
Flying mounts have no drawbacks like Ground mounts (role wise, as transportation).
LFD has no drawbacks anymore (with nerfed/dickless instances) as forming a group yourself on your realm.

People still underestimate how strong "convenience" is over "an enjoyable experience."
Humans lack forsight, why are we still talking about this?

[Polarthief]

LFD is fine. They need to make Heroic dungeons harder though and more meaningful.

Nyeh. Not really.

I enjoyed Ulduar and its Hardmode implementation. To say this is ruining WoW is a mockery.

I will definitely give you LFR. It needs to be removed, or at LEAST have the incentive (for HEROIC fucking raiders like myself) removed as in removing Tier and Trinkets completely. I don't want to do boringfuck bang-head-against-wall-for-free-loot mode, as I'm doing Heroics.

This too, definitely agree. It seems they may also with their new microtransactions.

Yes forced dailies suck. Actual dailies don't though. Anyone remember IQD (Isle of Quel'Danas)? People enjoyed them because THEY WEREN'T FORCED UPON YOU.

I don't get how repair bills ruin PvP...

[Glorious Leader]

Flying mounts suck. You are less intimate with the world.

I don't think they should be removed but limited in some way.
Have it on a CD, make Flying be more active than just holding forward.

It's all about balance.
Flying mounts have no drawbacks like Ground mounts (role wise, as transportation).
LFD has no drawbacks anymore (with nerfed/dickless instances) as forming a group yourself on your realm.

People still underestimate how strong "convenience" is over "an enjoyable experience."
Humans lack forsight, why are we still talking about this?

Actually I would argue the developers over estimate how "enjoyable" the experience is once you remove the convenience of lots of the things we've come to expect from the game. Flying mounts having no draw backs is a good thing, it let's me get to what I want faster and get it done. Players are about getting things done, not getting on the way to be waylaid by mobs on the way to get things done.

Like I said if the developers read this thread and this forum (which I'm lead to believe they do) I hope they take the ideas being suggested to heart and I honestly hope they get rid of flying. Mists has shown how LITTLE stomach the player base has for "grind" and the removal of convenience. Pushing that further is foolish but sure would make for enjoyable conversations...

[Lord Blackmore]

Because God forbid people use a discussion forum to discuss things. Wonder how you'd feel if you got the same response you gave the OP. Probably be tears for a week.

All OP has is the same tired, recycled complaints that we see almost every week around here. Now I'm sure OP thinks they're bringing a new and fresh perspective to the topic, but I can assure you that they are not. There is virtually no discussion of any worth about any of these things. We get the same canned complaints and the same canned counter arguments. If someone is going dredge up the same old BS, then they're going to get called out for doing it.

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Flying mounts suck. You are less intimate with the world.?

Everyone is free to explore as much as they want on a ground mount. In fact, there are plenty of opportunities to do that in zones that don't
allow flying until max (or close to max) level. It's not Blizzard's fault that people are too lazy to explore.

[Normie]

Greg Street is the George Constanza of video game development. He hates flying mounts, well just like Constanza the opposite thing to do would be the successful thing to do. Ergo He should LOVE flying mounts (and he really should) and push for them all over the place.

The would-be hardcores really do not appreciate what a big and loyal friend they have had in Ghostcrawler.

He's not the only person responsible for making the game harder and grindier (at the expense of fun for most players), but he's certainly the most vocal about it.

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Actually I would argue the developers over estimate how "enjoyable" the experience is once you remove the convenience of lots of the things we've come to expect from the game. Flying mounts having no draw backs is a good thing, it let's me get to what I want faster and get it done. Players are about getting things done, not getting on the way to be waylaid by mobs on the way to get things done.

Personally I'm sick and tired of having to fly or taxi my tailor to Silken Fields all the time just for a 3 second cast. Having to hearth on Isle of Thunder is just freakin' annoying that way.

There's inconvenience that makes the game more interesting and there's inconvenience that makes me want to watch Netflix instead.

[Durandro]

I will definitely give you LFR. It needs to be removed, or at LEAST have the incentive (for HEROIC fucking raiders like myself) removed as in removing Tier and Trinkets completely. I don't want to do boringfuck bang-head-against-wall-for-free-loot mode, as I'm doing Heroics.

Yes forced dailies suck. Actual dailies don't though. Anyone remember IQD (Isle of Quel'Danas)? People enjoyed them because THEY WEREN'T FORCED UPON YOU.

I'm in a guild just starting Heroic Raids. The need for any of us to do LFR has long since passed. There's no need to do it at all - you don't gain extra rep, the gear is worthless to us now and you don't get extra legendary quest drops. You don't need to do LFR.

And you never needed to do MoP dailies either, unless you're after profession patterns (you can get those items on the AH). Quel'Danas wasn't needed either, but it still helped people catch up with gear.

[KCguy]

This isn't 2004, it's 2013. Times have changed and that means the player base has changed. WoW strives to give more options to more people to make the game more accessible to everyone.

All I can say is, if you were to line up vanilla or BC with Mists of Pandaria and list everything both have, it would be like night and day. And if someone had never played World of Warcraft before and looked at both lists, they would choose Mists of Pandaria, IMO.

[Lime]

I don't agree with anything you mentioned. I feel everything that you stated is wrong is actually great the way it is.

[Pigglix]

I also dont agree with the OP points.

Well, remember the glorious days of BC? Having to get revered (nerfed to honored later) with a city to unlock the heroic dungeon? Or what if you choose to play a ret pally? LOLRET right? Or any class that dosent had any ccs like warriors, so many of "pff, you're a warrior, l2****tank and not dps!.

And people now complains about dailies but forget all the shitty grind that was BC or Classic and claim it was better than now.

And what about world pvp? I barely saw any in BC and i played on a high pop server back then. Now with CRZ, im seeing way more world pvp than the awesomesauce of BC times.

Also if memory serve me right, all you had to do to queue for a battleground was to go to shatt and talk to the battlemaster of your faction or w/e was his name, i know the Ally side had a copy of He-Man, that was hilarious.

Oh, and remember still in BC where BM hunters had a 1 macro buttom to unleash all their rotation? What about those locks back in the day huh? Left side of keyboard = sac succy, Right side = Shadowbolt.

And people say mage's rotations are easy.

IMO there's only two good things about BC: The new races and the option to fly. I still dont get how flying ruined the game or the pvp. You could still hop in your land mount and escape just fine.

I see alot of people complaining about how pve is easy or about LFR, but yet none of them has a heroic kill when the content is current.

About teleporting to dungeons/raids, IMO blizz should had done what they did in cata, in order to unlock the queue for said dungeon, you first have to discover it.

/sigh, i still have nightmares of farming all those damned herbs in Felwood or killing endless monsters for that troll in Winterspring...

And people complain about....the...grind in MoP...

/shakefist.