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  1. #501
    Legendary! Fenixdown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Houston, TX
    Yeah I'd go with the alt unfriendliness. I somehow managed to level a second character to 90, but it's still only able to do MSV LFR. I just can't be motivated to do anything on that toon right now.
    Bacon is the thing pigs give you when you're good.

  2. #502
    Scarab Lord Naxere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    In your head
    Hmm, let's see:

    - Reputation gating. Putting the other reputations behind Golden Lotus was stupid.
    - Dailies. WAY too many dailies at the start of the expansion.
    - PvP Balance. Getting better, but it's been pretty horrible the majority of the expansion.
    - Alt unfriendliness. Feel like there's too many punishing mechanics for alt catchup. Lesser Charms being account-wide would help.

  3. #503
    Quick rundown:

    - Alt unfriendliness: Initially this tied in with dailies, but now I would say it's due to the fact that LFR is the "replacement" for the catch-up 5 man dungeons. It was nice being able to get gear from HoT 5 mans in 4.3 combined with VP/JP gear (when JP gear was actually useful) to make a half decent viable alt for any alt runs.

    - PvP poopstorm: There have been more changes to pvp in MoP than the last two expansions combined, least it seems, yet I simply cba to get back into serious pvp. For me the main factor is all my pvp buddies have quit for various reasons. One of my favorite features through Cata was converting unused VP to CP and using that to keep my pvp gear set moderately kept up, but that was taken away in MoP in favor of the god awful upgrade system.

    - Conflict of interests: Touching on the last statement I made, there's all the hoopla about the item squish becoming a necessity, yet devs kept piling things on with additional raid difficulties, then the upgrade system using VP. Only thing VP should've been for is the SP:A gear, some sort of BoE 522 item (make it cost all 3k valor or 2.5k or something), and the ability to convert VP to conquest once again (which could help bolster the dwindling pvp population).

    - Dailies being mandatory early on: Whoever came up with that whole gating idea with GL and the whole daily layout at the start of MoP...I hope they are working elsewhere or looking for work. By far one of the dumbest things to ever come along in the game. As noted by another poster I glanced over, they could've had BoA tabards at revered to resolve this issue for alts, but the token things tend to work the same way, I suppose. Also, I think after having been without it, I can say I would much rather faceroll 5 man dungeons to complete reps, but they have to string people along as much as they can for that $15 a month, so...

    Out of time for now, because I could go on for days, but armchair developing is pretty pointless.

  4. #504
    High Overlord Nydith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by Iseeyou View Post
    12e per month whille better mmo (gw2) is "free"
    -600Ksub every quarter all my mates left the game
    Pvp let down
    World Pvp = 0
    World stuff = 0
    New LCD
    2005 Graphics starts to hurt my eyes
    -Pandas...There is also other silly races in wow. Cows,space goats and so on and you dont complain about them?
    -LFR was put in to wow under cata.
    -You both same time?
    -Why care about subs drop, its a old game and if they dont say anything about people stop playing you would not even notice it.
    -Casualfriendly? well has been like that since wrath.
    -Retardfriendly..well you opinion.
    -World pvp...its have been dead since tbc
    -world stuff...dont really know
    -New dont know that that means
    -2005 graphics? you are wrong there, wow grapfic has been update a few times. last time was in cata. My computer use to handle full grapfic in wow but now it cant without have shitty fps.

    I have View your profile. Why care about a game you dont like? make no sense at all. Please stay on guild wars and LoL forums
    Last edited by Nydith; 2013-07-30 at 02:13 PM.

  5. #505
    Only 1 thing for me that didn't work this expansion and frustrates me (and probably already mentioned ): skip the cinematic after Council to Tortos in ToT

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezuela View Post
    Only 1 thing for me that didn't work this expansion and frustrates me (and probably already mentioned ): skip the cinematic after Council to Tortos in ToT
    The great thing about LFR is you never see that cinematic.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    1955 At the first Atoms for Peace meeting in Geneva, Homi Babba predicts that fusion will be in commercial use within two decades.

  7. #507

  8. #508
    I hate how, for lack of a better word, unepic the game feels. In the past it was an accomplishment to be max level, kill raid bosses, get high arena rating, get your epic ground mount or flying mount, etc etc.

    During Classic, TBC and WotLK leveling took time and you got rewarded on your way up. The old talent trees made getting a level feel important. Even if you put 1 skill point into a +1% hit talent your character got stronger. Now you get a talent point even 15 levels. Some of those talents are complete garbage and having to wait 15 levels to pick the only good talent is frustrating. If you wanted to level up in the past you had to quest or grind mobs. Now if you quest you blitz through the levels so fast that you'll out level a zone before you're done with all it's quests. Blizzard remastered the 1-60 questing and now you don't get to complete the zones unless you like not getting rewarded for your work.

    With LFR and LFG being brought into the game killing a boss or finishing a raid doesn't feel as *cool* as it used to. When you raided from Classic through late Cata killing a raid boss was something unique to those who put in the effort to organize a raid and had the skill the kill the boss. Now you can just que into LFR, go afk, and experience killing a raid boss. Not to mention how similar the gear looks between difficulty tiers. LFR, Normal and Heroic gear look so similar its sickening. Just the thought of how Flex raid gear is going to look nearly brings me to tears.

    Pvp in MoP has been plagued with insanely, over the top, strong specs in every patch. In the past there were always strong specs but they weren't so strong that you could just auto win games if you had that spec on your team. I'm looking at BM, Feral, Ele, Enhance, Shadow, Subtlety, Ret and Arms early in the expac. Some of these specs have been stronger than others but at one point in time they would just dominate pvp. Blizzard has made a bad habit of over buffing a class, leaving it OP for a while, then gutting it. Arms got this treatment, Feral is getting it's utility gutted in 5.4, Shadow had it's defensives nerfed into the ground and Hunter's stampede might as well be renamed to Petting Zoo if blizzard keeps up with their nerfing. There are also way too many super strong abilities that make pvp so hard to balance. This applies to both damage and defensive cds. Just to list a few, Void Shift, Wild Mushroom, HotW, Spirit Link Totem, Symbiosis, Chastise there is too many to list. All these super strong defensive abilities need to be in the game because of all the massive dps cds. A class pops all their offensive cds at once and you or your teammate are forced to use a big defensive cd or you just die. The things that make the game fun, seeing big numbers (healing or dmg), also make balancing nigh on impossible.

    I could go on but I think that is enough complaining.

    Note: I still love this game and play every single day I just think some aspects of the game were better in the past. I didn't mention any of the things that have changed for the better because its easier to pick the stuff I don't like. But many parts of the game have massively improved.

  9. #509
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    But they won't. They'll still make mandatory LFR, and might make it even more mandatory because they need to "cater" to players who don't want to group, who don't want to make friends, who just want to bot and resell their account.
    LFR being made "mandatory" isn't about "catering" to players who don't want to group. I mean that's part of it but that's a very narrow view. The overarching goal (as with almost everything in mists) is to make the content they do spend lots of time and money producing as effecient and wide reaching as possible. The goal is to get more out of raiding which historically did very little to entertain the huge mass of their audience. It was an economic calculation meant to save raiding as content. It's a very cynical economic calculation and has very little to do with "fun". I get the feeling they sat at a board meeting one day and said "yea they'll be cool with lfr and dailies so fuck dungeons and everything else really except these scenarios we can just pull from existing crap already"

    What infuriates me the most about that is the developers take a position that in Cata people were just doing dungeons to gear around patches instead of raids and bosses and that was effecient but not fun. Well NO you fuckers, you developers made are the ones making the effeciency decisions here. The players by and large just weren't calculating like that, at least I don't think they were. They keep saying this is fun but no it's not. Don't you think players are more adept at figuring out what's fun?
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-07-30 at 02:10 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  10. #510
    I think this expansion was fine, the only problem I see is the game slowly drifting to a lack of class uniqueness. Melee is mostly the same, ranged is mostly the same.

    The Alt issue people bring up... I feel no difference. Gearing, leveling, rep etc is exactly the same, the repeating raid aspect is the same as it has always been. If ever asked to go to Naxx or Ulduar or Dragon Soul, Firelands, Heart of Fear on an alt... meh, all the same junk really. Seen it, done it, no point in grinding it out every week on multiple toons.

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by Defengar View Post
    It just didn't improve enough on what cataclysm fucked up. Plain and simple, Cataclysm was fucking horrible, and it would have taken an absolutely amazing expansion. Even better than BC or Wrath, to get WoW back on track.

    MOP was good, but it was nowhere near that good. People saw that, and realized the game wasn't ever going to be as good as it had been again, and so the drain began again in earnest.
    I am a big fan of BC. Since Wrath, the content difficulty seems to decrease.

  12. #512

    Challenge Modes (feels rewarding)
    Pet Battles (nice feature)
    Brawlgar/Brawler's Guild/Arena - (except Hexx**)
    Isle of Giants (before Oondasta nerf)
    Proving Grounds (what i read)
    Legendary Questline (really good fun)
    some achievements
    new battlegrounds are mostly fun (Silvershard Mines is favorite)
    5.2 and ToT in the beginning but after having cleared LeiShen five times, it just felt boring

    Scenarios (perhaps easy to implement but doesnt compete with 5-player dungeons)
    Heroic Scenarios (only way players want to gather VP at all now)
    there is not one new 5-man dungeon since the launch of mop
    amount of Dailies with 5.0
    Patch 5.1
    new talent system (liked the old trees and its flexibility)
    too many changes overall in MoP, too fast release of content
    professions feel boring, especially archaelogy

    ill add more
    Last edited by excelli; 2013-07-30 at 02:46 PM.

  13. #513
    Brewmaster Orikon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Personally,I think the main general problem in MoP is simply the expansion theme.Alt unfrendliness,LFR,constant changing/re-balancing/what-not to PvP,dead general World PvP,Dailies,endgame etc etc has been already present in Cata.Some things like dailies,alt unfrendliness etc. got worse,some things got better (sort of) :P.The expansion (at least to me) has a massive "filler" feeling to it,the story wasn't really interesting and was just sluggish.Also,personally I feel people have been underwhelmed.From all the promises of rich lore development,big amounts of new end-game content,the war between the Alliance and Horde etc. we didn't really get much.Although the idea of Scenarios,Challenge modes,Pet battles (etc.) seemed great at first,all these features kinda fell behind and became completely minor in the face of more pressing/important matters like raiding,gear,dailies and the rest.

  14. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by Santoryu View Post
    One of the problems, as has already been stated in this thread, is the LFG system. Even though it is very convenient to get into dungeons with it, it completely obliterates any semblance of community within the game. Back in WOTLK I actually had a list of people I had previously grouped with and found them to be very experienced and reliable players and would therefore ask them when guildies werent available or recommend them to somebody who was struggling to form a group. I think sacrificing a little commodity would be warranted here, because the community is struggling!

    And last but by no means least - it prevents Blizzard from introducing challenging 5 man content that drops loot because random, unorganized groups cannot handle it.
    This. This. A thousand times THIS! All the trolltastic fanboys BS counter with "OMG Y U SO HATE CASUALS SEEING CONTENT???" No. I hate what LFR has done to the WoW community. Ever since Vanilla you developed a reputation on your server that reflected many things, most importantly your skill, leadership ability, willingness to play well with others, and whether you would ninja loot. Even your membership in certain guilds said something, as many GMs would kick insta-boot players for verifiably committing acts that reflected poorly on the guild as a whole.

    Now you have an anonymous system where skill is irrelevant (24 other people to carry you), content is faceroll (seriously, LFR is easier than heroic 5 mans for the most part), anonymity enables sociopathic behaviours, and there is no way to tie reward (loot) to performance/teamwork/effort.

    Most of the big guilds on the server I've been on since Wrath are dying. Only one of them even tries to get 25 man content down anymore. Why bother? 10 man loot is the same thing. That's led most to stabilise around a 10 man core, but that is a fragile ecosystem. Nobody wants to hang around as the 11th or 12th player who never gets to run, so there is no depth. Two people take a break, lose connection, get ill, go on holidays, etc, and you're screwed. Back when there were talented players available for recruiting this was not all that big a problem. But all thta is out there anymore are LFR-babies who only know faceroll and that there are no consequences for acting like a slavering droog because it's "just the internet."

    Yeah, its my first post. Been lurking here for I cant recall the number of years. Hell, I even followed this site during the year and a half that I wasnt playing, from Dragon Soul rollout up to 5.3. But this issue is important enough that I finally quit lurking to speak out. Blizzard is killing this game by destroying any sense of community and not hammering anti-social behavior.

  15. #515
    5 man heroics...They are useful for around 2 weeks then they become "just" a way to get VPs - and now that there are too many other alternatives to getting VP cap it finally feels they're becoming obselete, or extremely dated.
    Personally i'd rather they just made level cap normal modes for farming VPs or JPs that way they can stay faceroll throughout the expansion and nobody loses anything.

    I thinks its now a good time to take Heroic 5 mans back to the drawing board and maybe change how they fit into the game and why they exist, without design limitations like LFD friendly/Short/faceroll they could really go back to reworking them to be challenging, re-evaluating the rewards and perhaps working on them to sustain a lifespan that lasts throughout the expansion.
    Last edited by Morbownz; 2013-07-30 at 04:00 PM.
    Anti-Legacy tears are the tastiest!

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrgannus View Post
    This is far truer than most people playing since Vanilla want to admit.
    Been here since Vanilla, and I'll be the first to admit it. Try a private server sometime, one that doesnt hand out free gear to start. I played one fairly recently. Farming dungeons for the BiS blues was harder than using them in MC. OMG, I"M THE BOMB, I"D BETTER RUN OUT!!! That was such a tough fight, guys! Vanilla raiding was only difficult because you had to find 25 decent players to carry the 15 mouth breathers, and no DBM to tell turbls that they were standing in bad. In a private server environment where pretty much everybody is a solid raider, 40 people hardcore enough to farm BiS blues will ROFLSTOMP on everything up to Naxx.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    All I can say is reading most comments, gief back TBC model. I will keep saying it, cause its the truth.

    Everyone raided something, and you feelt like you did progress at your own level. Yes I didn't see Sunwell, but I was damn happy to do 4/5 MH and up to and included Bloodboil inn BT, didn't matter if I was never gonna see Sunwell. I was happy and satisfied the hole way.

    People need something to do inn wow. When everyone gets everything, you loss long term goals fast. I loved logging on to wow with a long term goal, be it a grind for gear or some rep...
    Perfectly, exactly, and precisely put. Not everyone has to see every bit of content. I was a scrub in Vanilla, and never got into one of the big guilds. I was rockin three pieces of upgraded D0.5 and a Robe of the Void. I was so bad I bought mats and crafted the FR shoulders because OMG THEYRE EPIX!!

    The point was, I aspired to have what the guys parked outside the Orgrimmar AH had. Now everyone gets that, or at least a watered-down version of it, handed to them by queueing up for LFR. Nobody is special now that everyone is. And dont get me started on the stupidity of handing out a legendary item to every retard that can do some dailies and get carried thru LFR. Shadowmourne, earning that was legendary. Valanyr. Atiesh. Whatever that caster staff in Cata was (I quit right after Firelands anyway). Oh look, we give out a legendary cloak out to anyone with a pulse! See how special it is!

  17. #517
    i don't get why people complain about the LFG system honestly. what is the difference spamming "LF 1 tank" for half hour than standing in stormwind in a queue for half hour? sure it's okay for some people who have friends online all the time they can group with, but you can still do that today? LFG has given people who play the game on their own an easier way to find a group. absolutely nothing wrong with it.

  18. #518
    For me this is the second best expansion, BC being the best. i dont see how ppl dont think this is alt friendly. I started playing again oh about 6 months ago. Leveled a monk from 1-90 in 4 days tops and was raiding about 2 weeks later. then my hunter alt leveled from 85-90 in about a day lol and was raiding with it in about 3 days. my shaman leveled to 90 mostly used for crafting stuff and didnt take no time and i was raiding lfr with her just dont feel like playing another class really than my monk i love it. and i am currently working on another alt a warrior. so the alt friendly thing is stupid excuse anymore. But i love the way the game is and feels.

  19. #519
    I think that the convenience and accessibility related changes have shown that:

    cheaply induced fascination is short-lived. Hence the sub drop.

    Content needs to be hard and good and not facerollable. This would increase the game's longevity and devs don't have to push so hard to release "content", but can take their time and release "good (and immersive, difficult) content".

  20. #520
    - Pandaren looking (animation, voices, etc) way too silly, and are really annoying to see.

    - LFR, it started in Cataclysm and they expanded on it in Pandaria, I think it's a bad feature and you should feel bad about liking it (huehuehue).

    - Way too many dailies.

    - Too much locking things up, that being reputation grind and whatnot.

    - Carefree leveling or raid/dungeon running. Nothing is dangerous, you can fart through the content without ever, ever dying. The only way to die is to jump off a cliff on purpose. There is no tactic or thinking in the leveling.

    - While talking about leveling and quests, I hate how there are no group quests anymore and how Blizzard use the Elite frame on enemies that aren't even supposed to be elites. They are abusing the elite frame far too much.

    - The whole game is becoming more of a solo game than an MMO. Yes, that is stupid. People starting to play an MMO and expecting to be able to solo everything, and then come to forums to say ''I should be able to play my way'' are just dumb players. These players should expect to group up with others, if not, just go and play a solo game, MMOs are not for you.

    - Too many menus.

    - At least they are trying to release expansions even though how similar every expansion is after The Burning Crusade. Always the same pattern with raids, dailies and some dungeons, with perhaps a 'new' added feature.

    - They are trying to adress the dead server issues, even though they are too greedy to merge.

    - Ghostcrawler even said on twitter during Pandaria that he regret that they added flying mounts to World of Warcraft, props to him.

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