[Holy] Patch 5.4 PTR - Changes Discussion Pt. 2

[Deleted]

So.....Just one question:

How are we looking in 5.4? I WOULD read the thread, but I don't really like the idea of sifting through 54 pages, especially when it got REAL mathy at the last part.

I plan on dusting off my Ret/Holy Paladin, & I'm curious as to how Holy does, on the PTR we seem ok, but, will I be able to perform well?

[Lucyrotten]

So.....Just one question:

How are we looking in 5.4? I WOULD read the thread, but I don't really like the idea of sifting through 54 pages, especially when it got REAL mathy at the last part.

I plan on dusting off my Ret/Holy Paladin, & I'm curious as to how Holy does, on the PTR we seem ok, but, will I be able to perform well?

Read the last few pages, skip over the parts that confuse your poor over-mathed brain.

[PosPosPos]

For the 10 man raiders... Are you all using LoD in 5.3? Everything I had heard was it was always better to EF. I'm literally never using LoD.

EF is still heaps better than LoD. Shield refresh with LoD is largely inefficient(and never really worked pre 5.4 anyway, so it's not going to suddenly get better in 5.4).

Just switch over to Druid-style gameplay, roll HoTs and proc the legendary cloak.

No.

Your HR will heal 6 people total. This includes the target of the spell (in other words, HR will heal the target and 5 others). The target will be healed by X, each of the other 5 people will be healed by X/2. I don't know how exactly targets are selected, but all other smart heals target the lowest health players and HR probably does the same.

Congratulations, you just quoted a post disagreeing with it, then following up with a reply that is identical in meaning to the quoted post.

Edit: Nevermind, it's my bad, sorry, didn't see he(Galedric) included an extra target in HR.

[Freia]

Congratulations, you just quoted a post disagreeing with it, then following up with a reply that is identical in meaning to the quoted post.

He quoted a post that asked for confirmation on the new HR mechanics(specifically asking if his/her assessment was correct). And no his stated mechanics were not the exact same as the person he quoted.

[Pasture]

Just switch over to Druid-style gameplay, roll HoTs and proc the legendary cloak.

The legendary cloak procs once every 1.5 minutes and may well proc at an entirely useless time. You may get a good 10% out of it. You may only get 3%. I wouldn't advise altering your entire playstyle just for the proc unless it is a constant raid damage fight where it will be guaranteed to get used.

[PosPosPos]

He quoted a post that asked for confirmation on the new HR mechanics(specifically asking if his/her assessment was correct). And no his stated mechanics were not the exact same as the person he quoted.

.....Which is essentially MCC disagreeing with the way Galedric put it. You are just harping on semantics at this point.

And yes, his stated mechanics were exactly the same as the person he quoted.

Can someone please confirm me the new HR mechanism? I need to update my HR helper addon for Grid to match the new mechanism.

First, the main target doesn't count (and doesn't get healed) by the AoE healing part. Then you take 50% of the single target amount, this defines the base value for the AoE healing.

If there are 1 to 6 players around (again, not counting the main target), each is healed for this base amount. This should be identical to current HR.

Examples:
6 targets -> 40k single target, 20k base AoE, 20k / player -> 40k+20k*6 = 160k total healing
3 targets -> 40k single target, 20k base AoE, 20k / player -> 40k+20k*3 = 100k total healing
1 targets -> 40k single target, 20k base AoE, 20k / player -> 40k+20k*1 = 60k total healing

It differs however when there are more than 6 players.

10 targets, before -> 40k single target, 20k base AoE, (20k*6)/10 = 12k / players -> 40k+12k*10 = 160k total healing, with 10 people healed
10 targets, after -> 40k single target, 20k base AoE, still 20k / player -> 40k + 20k*6 = 160k total healing, but only 6 people got healed (+ the initial target).

Is it correct? Thanks!

No.

Your HR will heal 6 people total. This includes the target of the spell (in other words, HR will heal the target and 5 others). The target will be healed by X, each of the other 5 people will be healed by X/2. I don't know how exactly targets are selected, but all other smart heals target the lowest health players and HR probably does the same.

Condensed version in both cases:

HR hits up to six targets total and heals the first target for x and the other up-to-5 targets for x/2.

Is that so hard to comprehend? If so, please re-read Galedric's post until it sinks in.

Edit: Nevermind, it's my bad, sorry, didn't see he(Galedric) included an extra target in HR.

The legendary cloak procs once every 1.5 minutes and may well proc at an entirely useless time. You may get a good 10% out of it. You may only get 3%. I wouldn't advise altering your entire playstyle just for the proc unless it is a constant raid damage fight where it will be guaranteed to get used.

The cloak, undoubtedly, is unreliable compared to healing cooldowns and the like. However, given that 50% overheal EF(extremely likely even in 5.3 with shields rolling) is roughly 0 overheal LoD(extremely unlikely), the cloak proc pushes it over in clear favour of EF. Not to mention, healers in 10 man are expected to produce more tank healing than 25's , 50% beacon transference favors EF even more.

[Andyo]

How do you folks intend to gem? I've stated earlier I intent to gem for spirit / haste to make the 7170 easier to allow me to keep more mastery on actual gear, or do you folks plan to gem for spirit / mastery and use more haste on gear?

[Deleted]

How do you folks intend to gem? I've stated earlier I intent to gem for spirit / haste to make the 7170 easier to allow me to keep more mastery on actual gear, or do you folks plan to gem for spirit / mastery and use more haste on gear?

If you can go for 7170 (and not over) with Spirit/Mastery/Haste gear does it matter if you gem haste or mastery? Your stat pool is the same and stats go to mastery after haste breakpoint is reached. Problems arise if you

a) Can't get to 7170
b) By using haste gems makes you go over the breakpoint a lot

[Deleted]

Read the last few pages, skip over the parts that confuse your poor over-mathed brain.

Erm, I DID. & all I got was a load of Haste/Mastery & EF Discussion, as well as graphs & bar charts. Hence, why I asked for a quick TL;DR.

My Paladin was my main, & I just wanted to know if they could hold their own, & any weak areas.

[Sellinz]

So does anyone have an actual list of the haste breakpoints for e flame? The Totemspot one is pretty off on the later ticks...

[pretiwhitboy]

Okay so I've been keeping up with this since the beginning and info has gone many diff directions.

So for my own info correct me when I am wrong FOR 10 MANS.


It's still best to go with eternal flame even before you get the cloak over ss.

Mastery and haste have become a lot closer of a 2ndary stat.

For the start of the patch it seems best to roll mainly spirit gems and some int/spirit gems till you get some gear drops.

Still not worth it to use lod very often and to just keep going ef hots on everyone from 1 or 2 holy powers. And tanks and urself on 3.

[fundot]

can people that come to this thread and basically ask for advice on how to heal direct their questions to the "help my heals" thread. it's quite annoying to come here looking for 5.4 theory-crafting and people asking questions like "what do i do in 10man", "how do i forge for 10man" without even reading the previous pages or checking the how to heal thread where most of their questions have already been answered.

[Deleted]

So does anyone have an actual list of the haste breakpoints for e flame? The Totemspot one is pretty off on the later ticks...

Not sure if the list with the relevant buffs is posted anywhere so here is mine:

[Andyo]

So does anyone have an actual list of the haste breakpoints for e flame? The Totemspot one is pretty off on the later ticks...

They're not, if you look at various other posts and sources, (such as Kolori's post) you'll see they all come out the same @ 7170 for 14 ticks and 10867 for 15. They obviously include SoI.

[pretiwhitboy]

can people that come to this thread and basically ask for advice on how to heal direct their questions to the "help my heals" thread. it's quite annoying to come here looking for 5.4 theory-crafting and people asking questions like "what do i do in 10man", "how do i forge for 10man" without even reading the previous pages or checking the how to heal thread where most of their questions have already been answered.

Actually this thread is about h pallys healing in 5.4 as the title states. Stats reforging actual healing play style talents to choose with all the changes for 5.4.

[Andyo]

Actually this thread is about h pallys healing in 5.4 as the title states. Stats reforging actual healing play style talents to choose with all the changes for 5.4.

This is a post to discuss the changes. It's not a guide or help thread.

[Sellinz]

They're not, if you look at various other posts and sources, (such as Kolori's post) you'll see they all come out the same @ 7170 for 14 ticks and 10867 for 15. They obviously include SoI.

the % you end up with at 7170 haste is different than what is portrayed in the img so, seems off to me.

[nightfalls]

Kolori's spreadsheet that he linked is correct, end of story.

WTB stickied post of this or a copy-paste in the guide OP, or something.

[Jackielope]

the % you end up with at 7170 haste is different than what is portrayed in the img so, seems off to me.

If you really must know, Kolori figured out that Blizz rounds DoT and Hot effects to the nearest millisecond, which changes the breakpoints for a lot of things from what they might normally be if Blizzard used higher precision. The spreadsheet Kolori made is accurate, regardless of what you think your knowledge of the game is.

[Sellinz]

hence why I wasn't criticizing Kolori's spreadsheet, good try though.