[Holy] Patch 5.4 PTR - Changes Discussion Pt. 2

[PosPosPos]

More than that. No doubt a stronger HoT could be useful on ToT fights, but I'm still not sold on it being closer or even better than pre-nerf. And I don't mean better in a "padding the raid versus the resto shaman/druid" way, I mean better at progression healing.

No, it's not even close to prenerf EF.

The problem with exceedingly long duration hots, is that they are also proportionally easier to snipe. Chances are, if you cast post-nerf EF on something, only the first or second tick is going to go through. Then you get a million and one heals from other healers swooping in on your EF-ed target.

Also why I tried to push for EF being a short-moderate duration hot at 12 seconds(while also applying a hot with LoD), but with a stronger ticking amount, so we wouldn't get sniped as hard with it. Although in hindsight, we probably needed the duration and magnitude to be further compressed in a shorter time frame to be viable as a talent choice.

6 seconds just like, EoL of Holy Priests with say, ticking for a base of 25k per 2 seconds might help the overheal situation.

[nightfalls]

No, it's not even close to prenerf EF.

The problem with exceedingly long duration hots, is that they are also proportionally easier to snipe. Chances are, if you cast post-nerf EF on something, only the first or second tick is going to go through. Then you get a million and one heals from other healers swooping in on your EF-ed target.

I really could use another 25m or Flexible weekend raid testing.

[PosPosPos]

On the bright side, EF is a pretty much a delayed LoH when cast on yourself!

[Deleted]

I've been too depressed to track this lately, but am I right in the following changes?

- SH pretty much mandatory.
- 15% Buff to LoD
- Mastery>Spirit to 14k~>Haste>Crit
- EF hot buff, still not worth taking unless healing 10m with a disc I guess.
- We're fucking horrible to play, but somewhat viable in 10m? We'll use LoD to build shields along with HR. same shit as ef with different spells.
- Is it worth casting 1HP lod's at points to keep shields rolling?

[nightfalls]

All a tad bit behind Oggy. OP will be updated when I get up tomorrow and (hopefully) official notes are out, just to make sure I don't leave things out and/or have incorrect data-mined notes included.

[Floopa]

That EF buff is pretty huge. Say what you like but any HoT which heals in the region of 15-20k and makes 10 ticks, and can be put on multiple people, is pretty insane. Although I don't think buffing LoD alongside EF is the right move.

[tyo07]

after all, I would think that if SoO encounter will nearly the same like ToT, we got hard times to go especially in 25m. I myself will go to Sacred Shield and try Selfless Healer, mana really an issue right now without SoI, even with every use DP on CD, that 36k mana doesn't really help at all.

[Lumineux]

No, it's not even close to prenerf EF.

The problem with exceedingly long duration hots, is that they are also proportionally easier to snipe. Chances are, if you cast post-nerf EF on something, only the first or second tick is going to go through. Then you get a million and one heals from other healers swooping in on your EF-ed target.

Also why I tried to push for EF being a short-moderate duration hot at 12 seconds(while also applying a hot with LoD), but with a stronger ticking amount, so we wouldn't get sniped as hard with it. Although in hindsight, we probably needed the duration and magnitude to be further compressed in a shorter time frame to be viable as a talent choice.

6 seconds just like, EoL of Holy Priests with say, ticking for a base of 25k per 2 seconds might help the overheal situation.

Except I think you're forgetting to realize that overhealing with EF is a GOOD thing with the legendary cloak. I'll overheal all day with EF and that cloak, go ahead and snipe that healing, because then that leaves my EF to do ~30 seconds of overhealing, which is fantastic with the cloak.

[Corrupt]

Seems alot here thinks we will be "ok" in 10m? Mana seems to me to be in a worse state then on live due to SoI no longer returning mana(DP buff not big enough), especielly since most 10m probably run without resto shaman and mana tide. Or ive missed something that will make our mana ok?

[paladative]

I would so much prefer EF to tick faster, even if reduce the number of ticks. EF is not a paladin version of renew or reju, it's a paladin version of regrowth

[Lumineux]

That EF buff is pretty huge. Say what you like but any HoT which heals in the region of 15-20k and makes 10 ticks, and can be put on multiple people, is pretty insane. Although I don't think buffing LoD alongside EF is the right move.

You can't massively buff EF and then not buff LoD along with it, or else it'll just be like 5.3 where no one casts LoD because EF is so obviously better.

[Floopa]

You can't massively buff EF and then not buff LoD along with it, or else it'll just be like 5.3 where no one casts LoD because EF is so obviously better.

LoD gets buffed by SH though if you think about it. But yes, I guess you're right.

[Theholypally]

I agree. With 9000 spirit and a resto shaman I just could not go oom at all.

Uh what.......?

[Freia]

Uh what.......?

With pre-nerfed judgment + selfless healer, you didn't need a lot of spirit. Paladins were reforging all spirit to haste, so judgment for nerfed. You should probably read the thread from the beginning over quoting posts from old ptr builds.

[Theholypally]

With pre-nerfed judgment + selfless healer, you didn't need a lot of spirit. Paladins were reforging all spirit to haste, so judgment for nerfed. You should probably read the thread from the beginning over quoting posts from old ptr builds.

No point now, you gave me the answer. I'm not reading through 17 pages anyway.

Thanks for the info.

[zepyjoe]

Does the buff to holy insight also apply to the tick of EF?
If it does, that a big buff to EF 25% from insight and 40% more on the ticks.. (from 5.3)
When you add in the beacon transfer and the cloak procs from the ticks over heal it might just make up for the loss in IH

[Kyuuseishu]

Does the buff to holy insight also apply to the tick of EF?
If it does, that a big buff to EF 25% from insight and 40% more on the ticks.. (from 5.3)
When you add in the beacon transfer and the cloak procs from the ticks over heal it might just make up for the loss in IH

Well realistically we shouldn't be balanced around the use of the legendary cloak, the way they have buffed EF doesn't really accomplish much. Either it procs mastery or redesign it as a talent is what should be done instead of lobbing more healing onto the HoT component. But this is how they are compensating us now, pushing more healing onto the finishers.

[Ascended2210]

That EF buff is pretty huge. Say what you like but any HoT which heals in the region of 15-20k and makes 10 ticks, and can be put on multiple people, is pretty insane. Although I don't think buffing LoD alongside EF is the right move.

No it is not. It takes 4 globals and 50,000 mana to get that 15k/tick hot on one person. In that same time and same mana cost a druid can get 5 rejuvs out that tick for 30k each AND any overhealing done by those goes to shrooms. EF is still crap. Pallys are still crap. We are back to the one main point of this entire pally discussion. The only thing that made pallys viable and that made EF good was it increased the duration of IH on the target by 45 seconds.

[Hypasonic]

No it is not. It takes 4 globals and 50,000 mana to get that 15k/tick hot on one person. In that same time and same mana cost a druid can get 5 rejuvs out that tick for 30k each AND any overhealing done by those goes to shrooms. EF is still crap. Pallys are still crap. We are back to the one main point of this entire pally discussion. The only thing that made pallys viable and that made EF good was it increased the duration of IH on the target by 45 seconds.

I don't look at it like that, I mean sure you could say it costs 50,000 mana or w/e to get 3 HoPo but in reality you're casting the spells that generate the HoPo anyways, so any EF and LoD you would subsequently do is "free". Also, we're paladins not a HoT class, the mere fact we have access to a HoT is great imo and has served well on some fights (just talking about the HoT itself not the fact that it's mandatory due to interaction with mastery) and will continue to do so even after the nerf (more so 10m than 25 I guess)

[Lucyrotten]

Well realistically we shouldn't be balanced around the use of the legendary cloak <snip>

We are. They've as much as said we are. There's a reason we're going to be able to log in and have it in a half an hour.