Interesting figures about GW2 from the Chinese website

[Aredyl]

As long as we are trading anecdotes, of the 329 people in my guild, there's only 28 that did not login this week.

Here are a few questions:

Are you stating 329 players or 329 characters? I'm curious how many are duplicate counts that inflate your totals.

How often does your guild kick players for inactivity? Depending on how often your guild kicks players for inactivity, this would influence your login rates.

-----

Also, "Weekly Active Users" could mean quite a few things.

1.) Unique logins per week.
2.) Unique character logins.
3.) Logins in total.

We do know that roughly 1.5 hours a week per "active user" seems low. For every person that plays for 30 hours a week, there are 20 others that are just hopping on to see if their friends are on and then logging off.

[dragnipur]

Yeah, it's horrible when developer continues to support its b2p game after release with free updates that happen with such a frequency and even announces that they don't have to make a expansion to squeeze extra money out of players and will continue to make content available for free. Thank god developers don't do that more often. That would be horrible situation.

Because clearly the model WoW is using is much better ... I mean with a bit of luck Blizz can reach 6 mill subscribers with WoW sometime next year. That will be 3x-6x more than GW2 has if we consider these numbers to be inflated (which WoW numbers are not, those are hard facts).

Come on guys ^^ Let's be a bit more positive about this. Anet is b2p developer that seem to be doing quite well.

Don't forget that right now GW2 is only released in the west.And it still has to go to the Asian market.Compared to WoW which is on both markets with total 7 million players and losing subscribers from Cata,GW2 will grow when it launches in Asia.

[Karizee]

Are you stating 329 players or 329 characters? I'm curious how many are duplicate counts that inflate your totals.

How often does your guild kick players for inactivity? Depending on how often your guild kicks players for inactivity, this would influence your login rates.

1. In GW2 your account joins a guild, your characters represent guilds. So no matter what character I'm on, it still appears under the same account. If it was characters joining I'm sure the number would be inflated by a factor of 5-10x at least. You can see this on the Leaderboards if you login and set the parameters to guild.
https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/na/achievements

2. No idea.

[Repefe]

Don't forget that right now GW2 is only released in the west.And it still has to go to the Asian market.Compared to WoW which is on both markets with total 7 million players and losing subscribers from Cata,GW2 will grow when it launches in Asia.

You can say that WoW is on even more markets than that. They have a brazillien version and versions localized for various eu states etc ... it's one of the tools Blizz used to mitigate loss of subscriptions in Cata.

[Smitzelplix]

I doubted it at first simply due to the fact that I played from beta until a few months after release and I clearly saw a HUGE mass exodus from the game in that time.

Mass exodus from the game or mass exodus from your server? Free transfers were around for awhile, and I know there were people who did jump from server to server to get easy WvW wins so they could get quick world completion which is needed for the legendaries.

[Maconi]

Anet certainly acts as they get enough money out of the game. Speeding up content updates to 2x a month with no subscription ... p2p games can't pull that off.

You want to know the reason they do new events every 2 weeks? Every new event puts new items into the Lockboxes/Keys that must be purchased. Having the events last only 2 weeks makes those items more exclusive/desirable and makes those interested want to buy as many boxes as possible before the event is over.

The content is just a money grab like any other F2P MMORPG (like Tera's horrible events with nothing but Lockboxes/RNG everywhere). They always make it possible to get the boxes/keys without paying a dime just as an arguing point but they make it so incredibly difficult that it's really not viable (even in GW2 farming Gold to convert into Gems is SO much harder than just spending a few bucks, you'll never get the items you want simply from farming Gold).

I've pretty much decided that ANY game that lets you buy boxes/keys from a cash shop is an immediate DNP (Do Not Play) from me. They always design content around them as a cash grab which doesn't make for a good game IMO.

[Karizee]

Lol. I haven't bought any of those boxes yet (and don't plan to) yet I have all kinds of unique skins and rare items, including the legendary dagger Incinerator. I haven't bought gems to convert to gold either since gold is ridiculously easy to make and things are so cheap with the worldwide trading post.

But I admit, free content patches every two weeks is addictive

[Repefe]

You want to know the reason they do new events every 2 weeks? Every new event puts new items into the Lockboxes/Keys that must be purchased. Having the events last only 2 weeks makes those items more exclusive/desirable and makes those interested want to buy as many boxes as possible before the event is over.

The content is just a money grab like any other F2P MMORPG (like Tera's horrible events with nothing but Lockboxes/RNG everywhere). They always make it possible to get the boxes/keys without paying a dime just as an arguing point but they make it so incredibly difficult that it's really not viable (even in GW2 farming Gold to convert into Gems is SO much harder than just spending a few bucks, you'll never get the items you want simply from farming Gold).

I've pretty much decided that ANY game that lets you buy boxes/keys from a cash shop is an immediate DNP (Do Not Play) from me. They always design content around them as a cash grab which doesn't make for a good game IMO.

You know ... if you can't control yourself, it can be an issue for you. I haven't bought a single key. When I buy something I buy gems to increase bank, inventory, permanent stuff like that and that is to thank Anet for their work. Not to mention I don't really want anything in the boxes besides transmorg stones I have stacks of just from free keys. So yeah ... your reason does not sound too valid to me, sry. And gold behing hard to farm ... wow.

[zito]

You want to know the reason they do new events every 2 weeks? Every new event puts new items into the Lockboxes/Keys that must be purchased. Having the events last only 2 weeks makes those items more exclusive/desirable and makes those interested want to buy as many boxes as possible before the event is over

Except

1) This is the first time in months they put something back into the black lion chests
2) These are staying forever
3) You can do the candidate trials to get the weapons so you don't have to use keys
4) You can buy them from other players

The content is just a money grab like any other F2P MMORPG (like Tera's horrible events with nothing but Lockboxes/RNG everywhere). They always make it possible to get the boxes/keys without paying a dime just as an arguing point but they make it so incredibly difficult that it's really not viable (even in GW2 farming Gold to convert into Gems is SO much harder than just spending a few bucks, you'll never get the items you want simply from farming Gold).

And P2P isn't a money grab? I mean you are paying for the game monthly that's literally a money grab and key farming in this game is really easy but since you don't seem to play to the point of knowing you wouldn't know that. Not to mention WoW the most popular P2P MMO has had a cash shop for years which is very clearly a money grab, great logic for you.

I've pretty much decided that ANY game that lets you buy boxes/keys from a cash shop is an immediate DNP (Do Not Play) from me. They always design content around them as a cash grab which doesn't make for a good game IMO.

Rift does not design content around the cash shop, GW2 does not design content around the cash shop, TERA, NWO, etc. Weapon skins and other cosmetics are not content fyi.

[Maconi]

Except

1) This is the first time in months they put something back into the black lion chests
2) These are staying forever
3) You can do the candidate trials to get the weapons so you don't have to use keys
4) You can buy them from other players



And P2P isn't a money grab? I mean you are paying for the game monthly that's literally a money grab and key farming in this game is really easy but since you don't seem to play to the point of knowing you wouldn't know that. Not to mention WoW the most popular P2P MMO has had a cash shop for years which is very clearly a money grab, great logic for you.



Rift does not design content around the cash shop, GW2 does not design content around the cash shop, TERA, NWO, etc. Weapon skins and other cosmetics are not content fyi.

If you wanted the items in the lockboxes you'd be spending more than the $15 a month, which goes towards developing real content vs cheap temporary content with the goal of lockbox purchases (why else put even more dev power behind the temporary content rather than permanent content? because that's how they make the $$$ to sustain the game).

Also (I can speak from experience for Tera at least) every single event that Tera has is based around the lockboxes. Christmas? We've put weapon/armor skins in the lockboxes, along with Alkahest/Enigmatic Scrolls to enchant all your gear with! Try your luck! Halloween? Same deal. St. Patrick's Day? Same deal.

I will say that GW2 does much better than Tera in that respect though. Tera barely does anything other than make some themed items and put them in lockboxes. There really isn't that much content developed for the events. You really only know it's event time because your screen flashes a big overlay message when someone hits the jackpot and gets a rare item from a lockbox.

You're right that in that I haven't tried GW2 in a while though. Mostly because I was starting to get the same vibe and have had enough of that type of development. I don't want every single event in the game to be centered around a few half-hearted pieces of content with a focus on getting items from lockboxes.

It's not like I can unsub though (one positive GW2 has). I'll just wait it out a few more months and see if they change direction or put even more focus on the lockbox stuff. I put so much work into my Warrior (getting most of my legendary stuff, 100% world completion, etc.) that I'd love to come back (I like the art and the feel of the game).

I had thought WildStar was going to outshine GW2 since it's promising real end-game content along with having a similar combat system, but after having played the beta recently the movement/combat/animations/UI/etc. are all just a mess. It's really nowhere near the quality of GW2. If only there was more (permanent/non-event) content.

[Valeron]

I can't remember any event that was centered around getting an item from a lockbox

[Smitzelplix]

If you wanted the items in the lockboxes you'd be spending more than the $15 a month, which goes towards developing real content vs cheap temporary content with the goal of lockbox purchases (why else put even more dev power behind the temporary content rather than permanent content? because that's how they make the $$$ to sustain the game).

Also (I can speak from experience for Tera at least) every single event that Tera has is based around the lockboxes. Christmas? We've put weapon/armor skins in the lockboxes, along with Alkahest/Enigmatic Scrolls to enchant all your gear with! Try your luck! Halloween? Same deal. St. Patrick's Day? Same deal.

I will say that GW2 does much better than Tera in that respect though. Tera barely does anything other than make some themed items and put them in lockboxes. There really isn't that much content developed for the events. You really only know it's event time because your screen flashes a big overlay message when someone hits the jackpot and gets a rare item from a lockbox.

You're right that in that I haven't tried GW2 in a while though. Mostly because I was starting to get the same vibe and have had enough of that type of development. I don't want every single event in the game to be centered around a few half-hearted pieces of content with a focus on getting items from lockboxes.

It's not like I can unsub though (one positive GW2 has). I'll just wait it out a few more months and see if they change direction or put even more focus on the lockbox stuff. I put so much work into my Warrior (getting most of my legendary stuff, 100% world completion, etc.) that I'd love to come back (I like the art and the feel of the game).

I had thought WildStar was going to outshine GW2 since it's promising real end-game content along with having a similar combat system, but after having played the beta recently the movement/combat/animations/UI/etc. are all just a mess. It's really nowhere near the quality of GW2. If only there was more (permanent/non-event) content.

More permanent stuff is going to be added to GW2. First of all two dungeons that were introduced through living story as temporary dungeons are coming back in a permanent form within fractals of the mists. Also after this current patch a few mini games that were introduced as temporary content will be on a permanent rotation. Then there will be future content that hasn't been released yet which will have some permanent content, but what content and how much remains to be seen, we'll just have to wait and see.

[Meledelion]

Means nothing for retention, my 2 friends I convinced to buy GW2 played 2 weeks havent logged in since, anecdotal of course but sales are no indicator of retention.

It actually does. If 2.5 million people log in out of 3 mil that's 83% retention on the other hand if it's 2.5 out of 4 it's 62.5

[Svifnymr]

If you wanted the items in the lockboxes you'd be spending more than the $15 a month, which goes towards developing real content vs cheap temporary content with the goal of lockbox purchases (why else put even more dev power behind the temporary content rather than permanent content? because that's how they make the $$$ to sustain the game).

Also (I can speak from experience for Tera at least) every single event that Tera has is based around the lockboxes. Christmas? We've put weapon/armor skins in the lockboxes, along with Alkahest/Enigmatic Scrolls to enchant all your gear with! Try your luck! Halloween? Same deal. St. Patrick's Day? Same deal.

Sorry Tera burned you, but GW2 isn't Tera.
The lockboxes don't really have that much. The Halloween event had some skins in the lockboxes, and that was indeed irksome, but I mean, people sell them on the TP, so that wasn't the only outlet.
You also get keys at certain quest-levels. Some people would run a character to level 10, delete, run another up, delete and repeat. I can't personally imagine doing that for the chest keys, but hey...

The current system they've been using and which works well for me, personally, is to have a Lesser Box and a Greater Box. The LB's are world drops, frequent enough and contain some item with a chance at a skin. The Greater Box is a purchase thing and has a much better chance at a skin.

The exchange rate for gold/gems is getting higher and higher as folks get more gold to use it. It's still manageable though, IMO. I've used conversion to get an extra character slot and some other minor items. (Drill bits for everyone!)

You're right that in that I haven't tried GW2 in a while though. Mostly because I was starting to get the same vibe and have had enough of that type of development. I don't want every single event in the game to be centered around a few half-hearted pieces of content with a focus on getting items from lockboxes.

Some of the stuff is straight up purchase (aetherblade armor), some of it is Chests (charr backpacks and weapon tickets), a lot of it is available in game though. If you focus only on a certain item, you'll miss out on the plethora of items that are actually rewards for game activities.

It's not like I can unsub though (one positive GW2 has). I'll just wait it out a few more months and see if they change direction or put even more focus on the lockbox stuff. I put so much work into my Warrior (getting most of my legendary stuff, 100% world completion, etc.) that I'd love to come back (I like the art and the feel of the game).

I had thought WildStar was going to outshine GW2 since it's promising real end-game content along with having a similar combat system, but after having played the beta recently the movement/combat/animations/UI/etc. are all just a mess. It's really nowhere near the quality of GW2. If only there was more (permanent/non-event) content.

The good/bad of it is that GW2/ Anet are still learning. Sure, maybe they should have done some figuring over the 4-5 years the game was in development, but meh, we're here now. They say they may not do expansions, but that's not a sure thing. They came up with living world on a longer schedule and saw the complaints, so changed things up and have changed things a few times. People want permenant content, so they're keeping that in mind.

From what I understand, the setup is that there will be a continuing story, with some recurring events/ locations. (Halloween/ Wintersday/ Dragonbash events, Southsun Cove/ Super Adventure Box/ Bazaar locations) These events will change some things and add some things. It's still evolving.

[Bigbamboozal]

Absolutely, what a load of nonsense that 2.5million people log in each week out of 3 million. 2.5 million log ins be it simple log ins still seems pretty good.



Means nothing for retention, my 2 friends I convinced to buy GW2 played 2 weeks havent logged in since, anecdotal of course but sales are no indicator of retention.



There's no penalty to NOT log in either seeing as the game isn't designed to force you to play regularly.



Absolutely not an indicator of player retention.

For myself, I bought it, stopped after 2 weeks b/c wow had a patch.
But as I finished capping gear on my main, I started gw2 again.
Why can't I have my cake and eat it to?

[Huehuecoyotl]

You also get keys at certain quest-levels. Some people would run a character to level 10, delete, run another up, delete and repeat. I can't personally imagine doing that for the chest keys, but hey...

you can run a human commoner up to level 5 and complete the personal story to level 10 to get a key. takes very little time, i am working through the 50 boxes i have stored up at the moment.

[draykorinee]

It actually does. If 2.5 million people log in out of 3 mil that's 83% retention on the other hand if it's 2.5 out of 4 it's 62.5

That's not linked to what we were discussing . We were discussing whether good sales are an indicator of current player retention.

[Fernling306]

you can run a human commoner up to level 5 and complete the personal story to level 10 to get a key. takes very little time, i am working through the 50 boxes i have stored up at the moment.

What profession have you found o be the best? Do you worry about gear?

[Huehuecoyotl]

What profession have you found o be the best? Do you worry about gear?

i have heard that guardian is good, but i do it as a ranger. gear rewards from the story is enough, though i do keep a longbow in the bank to speed things along a touch.

[Meledelion]

Warrior is awesome since all you really need is HB and shit is dead, on the flip side if stuff isn't dead a shield is a great defense.

Most other profs rely on utilities and/or traits to get big damage numbers (apart from the guardian which is used a lot too for it's inherit defense but it's burst is a tad less).

Out of all classes there are only 3 that do big dmg from weapon skills Warrior, Guardian and Thief (possibly melee ranger too but most ppl stick to bows so they usually aren't suggested). Out of the 4 listed the ones that also have great defense are warrior and guardian. I prefer war over guard in general due to it's higher burst, guardian has a bit more survivability though.

Forgot to mention that warrior is also picked due to their extreme movement speed, sw/wh gives insane mobility to run from mone area to another.