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  1. #401
    Scarab Lord Lime's Avatar
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    There, now we're getting somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    The zeppelin change happened, IIRC correctly, near the tail end of WotLK. Essentially, players were bored of getting destroyed when all they wanted to do was play the game. If you think about it, it's logically consistent with their stance on the Dark Portal.
    I feel that, while being similar to the Dark Portal, was changed for the sole reason of players not being able to get from point A to point B no matter what such as UC to Org. I don't see this affecting anything else.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    Here's Ghostcrawler:

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    That's why we say we don't spend just a ton of effort balancing these little one on one encounters that don't ever really happen outside of duels or world ganking (which are rarely going to be balanced since it's the most fun to gank someone lower level than you).
    Or maybe:

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    My pet theory is rogue pop started to drop as soon as gank -> guaranteed kill became less likely.
    Clearly, he believes ganking is a "thing" regardless of your view on the subject. In the second comment, he implies that ganking has become harder, presumably because Blizzard have taken steps to address the problem.
    Going off the chance that those are real, I fail to see what you're point is. I never said ganking wasn't a thing. I said, according to Blizzard, that the things I listed weren't griefing.

    As for the second post, he could be talking about a number of things, such as talent changes that indirectly affected the ganking power of a rogue. But then again it could've been and intended change like you're suggesting. A little more context as to what he was talking about would be useful.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    Then why are you arguing in favour of it?
    I'm not arguing in favor of griefing (yes, by my definition, corpse camping is griefing). I'm arguing a statement you made that I don't agree with. I was arguing it because I didn't feel it was true.

    Why I did that should be obvious. Or maybe it's not and I'm weird, idk. I just feel that no matter how great a point is against something, if you're using lies to back up your point, it's not worth it.

    Edit- And when I say lies, I don't necessarily mean lies. The term, even though obvious, is escaping me... Meh, you're not dumb, I'm sure you know what I mean.
    Last edited by Lime; 2013-08-01 at 02:07 PM.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    You engage in ganking for your own amusement.

    That tells everyone plenty about you. And I'm willing to bet that when the threat of world PvP looms, you mount up and fly off.

    As I said before, I made a post about that and said I gank to GET people to come on their 90's so that I can beat them on their 90 aswell just to show them that I am better regardless of their level.


    You can keep repeating it all you like. I've already pointed out why it's reductio ad absurdum, and you know it is because you're still not giving anyone a positive reason to gank others that can't fight back.

    A positive reason is to Stir up some conflict, so that people actually get angry and start having little skirmishes around the place, instead of only leaving Neutral areas on their lvl 90's to level said alts.

    I also pointed out I only gank people with Heirlooms on, thus knowing they have a high level Main to come fight me with, I leave non-heirloom people alone or help them out at times since they are generally newer players.


    They're not. Your point is totally, irrevocably and irrefutably irrelevant.

    PvE demonstrably doesn't involve fighting against the environment.

    PvE is an Abbreviation of "Player Vs. Environment" so that makes your point moot.

    PvP, therefore, isn't as directly defined as you're implying.

    PvP is an acronym of Player vs Player and thus directly defined by its name.

    Logic sucks, I know.

    Maybe it is just you who sucks at Logic.
    You're clinging to the argument of a desperate individual who built his argument on sand.

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

    Parody is not.
    here is my quote you seem to have missed.

    I usually gank purely for WPvP. Usually at Thrallmar or Hyjal and specifically people that are in heirlooms. Since I know they have a High level character and if I fuck them off enough they will come fight me on their 90.

    So yes, I do get gratification for being a dick. I also get gratification for beating the lvl 90 main of the lvl 60 alt I've been ganking for an hour just to show the guy it doesn't matter what level he is, I am still better.
    Last edited by Pool of the Dead; 2013-08-01 at 02:17 PM.
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  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lime View Post
    I feel that, while being similar to the Dark Portal, was changed for the sole reason of players not being able to get from point A to point B no matter what such as UC to Org. I don't see this affecting anything else.
    I think we need to be wider ranging in what we think point A to point B is. In the case of the Dark Portal, clearly getting to Outland from Azeroth leaves you with that sole option. But point A to point B could also be level 58 to level 68 (Outland's level range), which means there is another option open to that player; the queue.

    On many occasions, we've seen Blizzard employees and developers come up with ways round something when people are complaining that they're being hindered. MANY occasions. In fact, they've designed systems and content to help. On this occasion, however, they're trying to hit ganking directly because, to me, they believe it's a distasteful practice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lime View Post
    I never said ganking wasn't a thing. I said, according to Blizzard, that the things I listed weren't griefing.
    It's krethos who was implying that ganking wasn't a thing, given that he or she believes PvP is the delimiter that makes all behaviour permissable.

    But even ganking has a less obnoxious definition; namely, back-jumping someone who's busy doing something else. I ganked a Shadow priest back in Cataclysm during 4.2. He was busy fighting some flaming dogs, wasn't ready for the attack, and died as a result. I ganked him, but didn't kill him so quickly that he couldn't fight back - he did.

    The definition of ganking that I find intolerable, as does anyone that isn't an ingrate, is when you repeatedly kill a player who has no chance of fighting back. There's absolutely no reason to do it, so it should be discouraged to the point of impossibility. Hiding behind the argument of "it's PvP" has been shown as nothing more than a meaningless sham.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lime View Post
    I'm not arguing in favor of griefing (yes, by my definition, corpse camping is griefing). I'm arguing a statement you made that I don't agree with. I was arguing it because I didn't feel it was true.
    I hope I've explained more clearly why I think it is true.

    The second point about taking the word "player" to the extreme got the treatment its lunacy deserved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lime View Post
    Edit- And when I say lies, I don't necessarily mean lies. The term, even though obvious, is escaping me... Meh, you're not dumb, I'm sure you know what I mean.
    A lie is an intentional distortion of the truth - what you mean is probably mistake.

    Don't worry, that's what I assumed you meant.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    It's krethos who was implying that ganking wasn't a thing, given that he or she believes PvP is the delimiter that makes all behaviour permissable.
    I never once said ganking wasn't a "thing" I just said it still falls under the definition of PvP.

    Just like drag-racing still falls under the definition of driving a car.

    I also pointed out that I only do it to people that can fight back, by way of logging onto their level 90 and coming to fight me.

    Battlegrounds bore me a lot of the time, and WPvP just seems non-existent unless you create it yourself.
    Last edited by Pool of the Dead; 2013-08-01 at 02:24 PM.
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  5. #405
    Scarab Lord Lime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    On this occasion, however, they're trying to hit ganking directly because, to me, they believe it's a distasteful practice.
    Oh, I agree at least in regards to the Dark Portal. However, I've gotta disagree that they're against it all around. If that were the case, I think we would see more restrictions. They just seem to be against ganking the "chokepoints".


    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    It's krethos who was implying that ganking wasn't a thing, given that he or she believes PvP is the delimiter that makes all behaviour permissable.

    But even ganking has a less obnoxious definition; namely, back-jumping someone who's busy doing something else. I ganked a Shadow priest back in Cataclysm during 4.2. He was busy fighting some flaming dogs, wasn't ready for the attack, and died as a result. I ganked him, but didn't kill him so quickly that he couldn't fight back - he did.

    The definition of ganking that I find intolerable, as does anyone that isn't an ingrate, is when you repeatedly kill a player who has no chance of fighting back. There's absolutely no reason to do it, so it should be discouraged to the point of impossibility. Hiding behind the argument of "it's PvP" has been shown as nothing more than a meaningless sham.
    Repeatedly camping someone, yeah, I have a problem with that. But on point, I wouldn't say the people (me included) defending the definition are "hiding behind" it. For me, it came more down to someone saying I was wrong despite me having facts to back myself up. Its funny that the definition ended up proving both sides right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    I hope I've explained more clearly why I think it is true.
    Why what is true?
    You thinking that Blizzard doesn't want ganking? Yeah, I can see your point. As stated, I think otherwise though.
    You thinking the ganking isn't PvP? Yeah, I can see why you'd think that as well. I mean, I kinda proved that point as being True and False. It just depends on which definition you go by. Its not honorable in any case, but I do stand by that it is actually PvP as I know you think it's not.

    I feel at this point, me and you have argued those points into the ground. I guess we've gotta agree to disagree. At this point, we're just arguing opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    A lie is an intentional distortion of the truth - what you mean is probably mistake.

    Don't worry, that's what I assumed you meant.
    Yeah, thats it. Told you it was something obvious.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Lime View Post
    I don't understand how thats destroying wPvP. Blizzard themselves have stated that griefing is an intended thing on PvP realms.


    That being said, i do thank you for at least explaining yourself. Thats more than most are willing to do.
    I don't think it was intended. I think it is to be expected.

    It is not something that is suppose to happen, it is just something that can happen.

  7. #407
    Legendary! TirielWoW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lime View Post
    Repeatedly camping someone, yeah, I have a problem with that. But on point, I wouldn't say the people (me included) defending the definition are "hiding behind" it. For me, it came more down to someone saying I was wrong despite me having facts to back myself up. Its funny that the definition ended up proving both sides right.
    You know, it's really hard for me to get a bead on you, as it were. About half the time you seem to advocate reasonable points, but then you defend (vigorously) people who honestly believe it's their god-given right to abuse and torment players 30+ levels below them for as long as they want any time they want. Which, as I'm sure you're already aware, I really don't understand. I mean, where's the fun in kicking a puppy until it yelps? Then doing it again and again while it tries desperately (and unsuccessfully) to get away? I mean, that's the equivalent of what people who gank lowbies are doing.

    If so many people weren't so abusive with the system, then we wouldn't see guards being placed in places like the Dark Portal. But I would imagine that even Blizzard can't condone a situation where people have to find a level 70+ to port them to Shattrath so they can actually continue leveling, since there are asshats who will camp them until they log in Blasted lands.

    But what really bugs me is that so many people can't see how detrimental it is to the game to abuse lower level players like this. We're driving off the future of the game, and it's all for some personal wankery. I guess I just don't get it.
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  8. #408
    Scarab Lord Lime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    You know, it's really hard for me to get a bead on you, as it were. About half the time you seem to advocate reasonable points, but then you defend (vigorously) people who honestly believe it's their god-given right to abuse and torment players 30+ levels below them for as long as they want any time they want. Which, as I'm sure you're already aware, I really don't understand. I mean, where's the fun in kicking a puppy until it yelps? Then doing it again and again while it tries desperately (and unsuccessfully) to get away? I mean, that's the equivalent of what people who gank lowbies are doing.

    If so many people weren't so abusive with the system, then we wouldn't see guards being placed in places like the Dark Portal. But I would imagine that even Blizzard can't condone a situation where people have to find a level 70+ to port them to Shattrath so they can actually continue leveling, since there are asshats who will camp them until they log in Blasted lands.

    But what really bugs me is that so many people can't see how detrimental it is to the game to abuse lower level players like this. We're driving off the future of the game, and it's all for some personal wankery. I guess I just don't get it.
    Maybe I'm bad at expressing the way I feel or something. If I see a statement I don't agree with, I'll speak my mind, it doesn't matter if it's a demon saying it or an angel. I'm not defending the griefers, but I'm defending logic (at least imo, some people might not see it that way). I guess in a way, I am defending them indirectly, but thats not the point of why I'm arguing it.

    I don't support griefers. I think what they do is atrocious and I'm glad Blizzard is taking steps to deal with the situations as grim as whats happening at The Dark Portal.

    However, the second someone comes in here and starts saying illogical statements such as "They just do it cuz they're bad" or something else I don't agree with, I step in.

    That being said, I do think I'm gonna stop (for now) when people say that. I guess some people just want a place to vent and the last thing they need is someone like me, who is also against it, to tell them that they're wrong.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    Well I didn't roll on one for this crossrealm ganking paradise.
    well this is what you get when people complain about dead servers. Be careful what you wish for.

  10. #410
    Legendary! TirielWoW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lime View Post
    However, the second someone comes in here and starts saying illogical statements such as "They just do it cuz they're bad" or something else I don't agree with, I step in.
    I get that. I just...I have a hard time not believing the gankers are bad. Every time I've shown up on my Priest to deal with someone corpse camping one of my lowbie characters, or the character of a friend, one of two things happens:

    1) They run away. Oh god, a 90! I might actually have to work, and that's no fun!
    2) They fail horribly. I mean, seriously, I am a Disc Priest. I get no boost to my offensive abilities, and I am easily stunned, interrupted, rooted, spell locked, feared (after Fear ward falls off), etc. Yet in the vast majority of cases, Rogues never kick me, Mages never Counterspell me, when they do manage to stun me they stand back as though shocked they've done such a thing, Priests don't fear me, etc. I mean, these people are terrible. They're so bad that they would probably get laughed out of a random BG, and it's the only reason I can think of as to why they are out there beating up kids.

    I mean, seriously, how do you go back to your friends and tell them, "Yeah, a healing Priest handed me and my buddy's asses to us. Priests are just too OP. She just kept killing us over and over again, and wouldn't let us kill any lowbies, that jerk."
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  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by thatcrazypenguin View Post
    Quote from the latest interview with gc.

    `
    There are a few leveling areas that need stronger guards, such as around the Dark Portal in Blasted Lands.`

    So even the areas where world pvp is a tiny possiblity are going to get `super` guards that kill off any individual attack on an area before it even gets going.......

    tell me why I rolled on a pvp server again? `sigh` this game used to have some awesome open world battles before elite guards were introduced its totally at odds with the concept of a pvp server....if they want to be safe while leveling roll people should roll pve!
    Killing lowbies as they zone in with a loading screen isn't world pvp, it's just stupid.

  12. #412
    Scarab Lord Lime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    I get that. I just...I have a hard time not believing the gankers are bad.
    Oh, they can very well be bad. My point on that specific issue was that griefing has nothing to do with skill in a beneficial or detrimental way. It's like the PvE equivalent, "Rodger just killed a level 3 Boar, he's bad.".

    I do find it funny that a healer beat griefers though, talk about a loss of confidence. I rarely find bad griefers. Oftentimes, when me and 2 of my buddies are moving out in our anti-gank squad, we'll run into teams of 2500+ arena players. More often than not, we get our asses handed to us in those situations lol.

  13. #413
    Legendary! TirielWoW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lime View Post
    Oh, they can very well be bad. My point on that specific issue was that griefing has nothing to do with skill in a beneficial or detrimental way. It's like the PvE equivalent, "Rodger just killed a level 3 Boar, he's bad.".

    I do find it funny that a healer beat griefers though, talk about a loss of confidence. I rarely find bad griefers. Oftentimes, when me and 2 of my buddies are moving out in our anti-gank squad, we'll run into teams of 2500+ arena players. More often than not, we get our asses handed to us in those situations lol.
    Maybe it's something about the times I end up "on patrol" in Hyjal. It's mostly new 90s who want to feel powerful by kicking level 80 players around.

    Once me and a guildie, who was a Holy Paladin, made the "patrol" together. How do you tell your friends that? "Yeah, a Holy Paladin killed me with Denounce."

    Mind you, I personally don't really enjoy PvP unless I personally know the person shivving me in the kidney. Then, for whatever reason, I find it completely hilarious. When I was on Moon Guard, for instance, with my main who was a Blood Elf at the time, whenever I did Tol Barad, one of the better PvPers from the Alliance side would run up to me shouting, "I LOVE YOU TIRIEL" as he deathgripped me. That was okay. For whatever reason, I found that damn good fun, and I personally enjoy being the "most valuable target" on the opposing team's list.

    I just have an obsession with fairness, I suppose, and a hatred of bullies. I've been bullied before, and I can't stand watching someone else get bullied and not do anything about it. I wouldn't even be on a PvP server, but this is where my guild is. -_-
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  14. #414
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Excellent. The guards should pose at least a minor threat.

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    Like Talen said: if you're only a target and have no chance to fight back then you're not taking part in PvP.
    Yes!!! I hate world PVP now and more to the fact of loser 90's ganking my low level alts. Basically this is what happens, 90 swoops down on his flying mount from 100 feet above ganks me (no PVP involved when you can 1 shot a lowbie) then mounts up and circles 100 feet above again. Oh you say I can call a guildie or say in general chat. Yeah like people are going to respond and if they do all the person does is just fly away, its not hard.

    At least old school, it had to be a mount and well before so many expansions it was relegated to Azeroth or say Outlands. Again the part of getting ganked 5 million times by same 90 and funny as soon as he ganks you his first move is to get on his flying mount and fly out of LOS....PUSSY.

  16. #416
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    Eh, PvP Realms exist solely to allow every possible type of douchebaggery you can come up with. If you don't like that, roll on a PvE server, where you can flag/unflag at your whim. Or if your idea of PvP is a "fair and balanced fight", then do Arenas and/or BG's.

    But PvP Realms are designed for unfair fights and is their sole point. And I say that as a PvE'er that will never roll on a PvP server, because that is precisely what I don't want.

  17. #417
    Solution is kind of easy... all leveling zones should be like sub-level-20 zones where you can't attack lowbies unless you're attacked.

    Except for current content.. obviously. It SHOULD remain in Pandaria, even with flying mount unfair advantage.

    Now if your fun is ganking lowbies, I'm sorry to say, but you are a cancer in this game.
    Last edited by Spotnick; 2013-08-01 at 06:53 PM.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    Solution is kind of easy... all leveling zones should be like sub-level-20 zones where you can't attack lowbies unless you're attacked.

    Except for current content.. obviously. It SHOULD remain in Pandaria, even with flying mount unfair advantage.

    Now if your fun is ganking lowbies, I'm sorry to say, but you are a cancer in this game.
    A game based nearly entirely around Factions bent on War, kind of makes me think people that sit in cities and have nothing to do with any of the other areas of the game are the cancer.
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  19. #419
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    I'm okay with World PvP. If a 90 wants to take out another 90, go for it. Hell, if he wants to hit an 89-87, I'm all for it. I won't be the 90 to start the fight, but I'll sure as hell finish it.

    I'm even okay with a 90 who chances upon a lowbie while doing whatever in the open world. Kill me once, if you like, and then ride away. I'm fine with that.

    What I'm not okay with? Someone who has to establish dominance over lowbies with endless gankfests. We get it, I'm only level 30, and you're level 90. You are the superior one and have authority in this one single aspect of your sad, pathetic life. Do you HAVE to kill me 50 times? Why was once not enough? Are you really, truly that pathetic that this qualifies as entertainment to you?

    I'm all for pranking people. MC them into a cave of mobs and let them fight their way out, or Freeze trap them during a boss quest kill, or just sap them a couple times and get them paranoid about you being nearby. I'm all for that stuff, because it's a quick giggle that doesn't cause any problems. But endless killings because you need to fill a gap in your life to prove you're worth something to yourself? If endless gankfests are how you get enjoyment in life, then you failed horribly somewhere.
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  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    I'm okay with World PvP. If a 90 wants to take out another 90, go for it. Hell, if he wants to hit an 89-87, I'm all for it. I won't be the 90 to start the fight, but I'll sure as hell finish it.

    I'm even okay with a 90 who chances upon a lowbie while doing whatever in the open world. Kill me once, if you like, and then ride away. I'm fine with that.

    What I'm not okay with? Someone who has to establish dominance over lowbies with endless gankfests. We get it, I'm only level 30, and you're level 90. You are the superior one and have authority in this one single aspect of your sad, pathetic life. Do you HAVE to kill me 50 times? Why was once not enough? Are you really, truly that pathetic that this qualifies as entertainment to you?

    I'm all for pranking people. MC them into a cave of mobs and let them fight their way out, or Freeze trap them during a boss quest kill, or just sap them a couple times and get them paranoid about you being nearby. I'm all for that stuff, because it's a quick giggle that doesn't cause any problems. But endless killings because you need to fill a gap in your life to prove you're worth something to yourself? If endless gankfests are how you get enjoyment in life, then you failed horribly somewhere.
    Why is it most people I see calling other people Pathetic generally have their Signatures and Avatars plastered with my little Ponies?

    Wut.

    Mod Edit: Keep it on topic, no need for the personal comments.
    Last edited by mmoc99cfbcce04; 2013-08-03 at 09:22 AM.
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