Rejoice! Demon Hunter is already playable in-game, but not clear enough, apparently.

[Chonar]

The OP is for all intents and purposes correct. The Demonology Warlock is as close as you're going to get to a playable Demon Hunter in WoW.

If he worded it like that I'd be inclined to agree.
But he didn't, and my jimmies are thoroughly rustled as a result.

[Revolutions]

Therefore I felt for making this topic, because it is so insane that people are still divided about Demon Hunter exist as playable, in the game or not, when it is so clear that Warlock - Demonology is supposed to be the Demon Hunter and is.

You make these threads every other day and weren't you already banned for this crap?

[Teriz]

Wow man looks like you work on blizzard to say dat

You don't need to work for Blizzard to see how a Demon Hunter class wouldn't work in WoW. It doesn't work from a lore perspective, a mechanics perspective, or from a class balance perspective.

[Deleted]

Really, can't tell if you'e being sarcastic or not. Sure you can "play" a little Demon Hunter with the Demonology spec, but until they completely revamp Demo or put in a 4th spec for the lock, you're still always going to be a caster warlock.

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You don't need to work for Blizzard to see how a Demon Hunter class wouldn't work in WoW. It doesn't work from a lore perspective, a mechanics perspective, or from a class balance perspective.

It can work from all those three perspectives just fine, you're just refusing to accept it.

[Deleted]

I can melee with my mage, so I'm technically a battle-mage.

[Teriz]

It can work from all those three perspectives just fine, you're just refusing to accept it.

Then tell me why a Demon Hunter would fight another Demon Hunter via the faction conflict.

[Sanguinerd]

Then tell me why a Demon Hunter would fight another Demon Hunter via the faction conflict.

The other one stole your Night-Elf priestess.

[Chonar]

Really, can't tell if you'e being sarcastic or not. Sure you can "play" a little Demon Hunter with the Demonology spec, but until they completely revamp Demo or put in a 4th spec for the lock, you're still always going to be a caster warlock.

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It can work from all those three perspectives just fine, you're just refusing to accept it.

Lore could work in the same way it worked for Death Knights. Hero class, start at lvl 70, phased version of Black Temple. You realize your Master is pretty insane by the time you see him getting killed by 25 Alliance / Horde folks, and head out to Northrend to become greater than he ever was by defeating Arthas. Something like that. You join the alliance/horde because you saw Illidan getting killed by the horde/alliance, etc.

Mechanics is where the problems start. Unlike the Death Knight who only had Death Coil to worry about, the Demon Hunter's entire skillset is thoroughly cannibalized by the Rogue, Warlock and Priest. That and the weapontype they typically use are not well-implemented in the game, only having a fist weapon from Gundrak that vaguely looks glaivelike, or very raredrop legendaries that cannot be transmogged and are a poor choice by the moment you'd leave your "starter zone".

Class Balance is the real kicker. Where's the room for *yet another* melee leather class? Yet another class that uses agility fistweapons/swords/daggers? Meanwhile, there's still only 2 mail-wearing classes in the game. Demon hunters are gonna wear mail? Doubtful. Maybe cloth. Agility cloth? Maybe not.

[Gereorth666]

Then tell me why a Demon Hunter would fight another Demon Hunter via the faction conflict.

Why are Paladins fighting eachother then? And Druids? (And it is something I also truly don't know, so I hope it can be a counter-argument *fingers crossed*)

[Deleted]

Lore could work in the same way it worked for Death Knights. Hero class, start at lvl 70, phased version of Black Temple. You realize your Master is pretty insane by the time you see him getting killed by 25 Alliance / Horde folks, and head out to Northrend to become greater than he ever was by defeating Arthas. Something like that.

Mechanics is where the problems start. Unlike the Death Knight who only had Death Coil to worry about, the Demon Hunter's entire skillset is thoroughly cannibalized by the Rogue, Warlock and Priest. That and the weapontype they typically use are not well-implemented in the game, only having a fist weapon from Zul'drak that vaguely looks glaivelike, or very raredrop legendaries that cannot be transmogged and are a poor choice by the moment you'd leave your "starter zone".

Class Balance is the real kicker. Where's the room for *yet another* melee leather class? Yet another class that uses agility fistweapons/swords/daggers? Meanwhile, there's still only 2 mail-wearing classes in the game. Demon hunters are gonna wear mail? Doubtful. Maybe cloth. Agility cloth? Maybe not.

I didn't say it doesn't provide any challenges, but Teriz always acts as if it's a thing that can't be done. Sure especially Meta is a problem, but none that can't be solved in a various number of ways.

[delus]

The lore behind metamorphosis is that the warlocks of the black harvest stole the secrets of demonic transformation from Illidan himself.

[Deleted]

Then tell me why a Demon Hunter would fight another Demon Hunter via the faction conflict.

Why are Horde and Alliance Pandaren fighting each other? I still don't find this convincing. Or Death Knights. All Death Knights basically start out as brothers and sisters. Numerous classes have their own neutral faction. The Argent Dawn and Crusade. The Knights of the Ebon Blade. The Cenarion Circle. The Earthen Ring.

Why would, let's say, a Night Elf Demon Hunter ever want to fight a Blood Elf Demon Hunter? For the same reason a Night Elf Death Knight would want to fight a Blood Elf Death Knight, I guess.

And as unsatisfying an answer as it is, even if it is illogical lorewise, then Blizzard has shown again and again that gameplay is more important than lore. This would never be a reason against the Demon Hunter, or any other class.

[SodiumChloride]

I didn't say it doesn't provide any challenges, but Teriz always acts as if it's a thing that can't be done. Sure especially Meta is a problem, but none that can't be solved in a various number of ways.

Take it away from Warlocks, problem solved. :3

[Teriz]

Why are Paladins fighting eachother then? And Druids? (And it is something I also truly don't know, so I hope it can be a counter-argument *fingers crossed*)

Lorewise, Horde and Alliance Paladins aren't the same. Blood Elf Paladins are actually Blood Knights, and Tauren Paladins are Sun Walkers.

Player Druids aren't part of the Cenarion Circle, so they have race-based reasons to participate in the faction war.

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Why are Horde and Alliance Pandaren fighting each other? I still don't find this convincing. Or Death Knights. All Death Knights basically start out as brothers and sisters. Numerous classes have their own neutral faction. The Argent Dawn and Crusade. The Knights of the Ebon Blade. The Cenarion Circle. The Earthen Ring.

Pandaren from the Wandering Isle swore allegiance to either the Horde or the Alliance. All player Pandaren are either Huojin or Tushui, different factions that went their separate ways after leaving the Isle.

DK's are resurrected heroes. Once free from the Lich King's control, they simply went back to their old factions.

Neither scenario would apply to Demon Hunters. They chose to become Demon Hunters, their loyalty is to Illidan before either faction, and they have no reason to fight another Demon Hunter or participate in the faction conflict. They only want to hunt Demons.

So its doubtful that a Demon Hunter would venture to Pandaria to rescue King Varian's son, or to conquer the continent for Garrosh. Nor would he stay around and fight Sha, Mantid, or Mogu. He wouldn't give a shit about any of that. He would want to be in either a demon-infested zone, or in Outland.

Why would, let's say, a Night Elf Demon Hunter ever want to fight a Blood Elf Demon Hunter? For the same reason a Night Elf Death Knight would want to fight a Blood Elf Death Knight, I guess.

The difference is that the Death Knights never chose to become Death Knights. To become a Demon Hunter, you have to dedicate your life to hunting and killing demons. It's pretty hard to live up to that if you're participating in a petty factional conflict.

[Teriz]

You are confusing Death Knights with the undead. The Death Knights DID choose to become Death Knights... Go do the starting quests again fffs

So they willingly chose to be the Lich King's slave?

Okay....


Another issue is the armor problem. The next class requires INT and AGI mail armor. There's zero chance that a Demon Hunter would have an INT-based spec when the entire concept is melee based.

[DeathOfRa]

Sad.

Go to http://classic.battle.net/war3/night...onhunter.shtml

Then go to http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#VZ!

Oh shit? Demon Hunter from WarCraft 3 has only 1 ability that isn't used by Demonology, Warlock.

MANA BURN! Can't wait for Demon Hunter class to come to this game, I'll be like super mana burner without some idiot demon form.
I'll slay people with my Glaives and mana burn like so cool. *Facepalm*

We got rid of manaburn for a good reason. Priests had it, and so did blood elves.
We don't want it back.

Another issue is the armor problem. The next class requires INT and AGI mail armor. There's zero chance that a Demon Hunter would have an INT-based spec when the entire concept is melee based.

If you think the next class requires something, you're pretty off. Blizzard does what they want, if you haven't noticed.

[Teriz]

We got rid of manaburn for a good reason. Priests had it, and so did blood elves.
We don't want it back.



If you think the next class requires something, you're pretty off. Blizzard does what they want, if you haven't noticed.

Just like we required INT and AGI leather, and that's exactly what received via the Monk class.

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I DO think a Demon Hunter class is unlikely, i DO NOT think faction issues are the reason why. Blizzard can rewrite that lore easily.

Lore is a big part of the DHs appeal. You start rolling that back, and the appeal erodes away.

[Hattai]

If you think the next class requires something, you're pretty off. Blizzard does what they want, if you haven't noticed.

Reasoning is sound, Demon Hunters would be leather if implemented and we just had a leather wearer added. Mail is the last grade to cater to only 2 classes, for balance alone it makes sense that a mail class would be the next to appear.

[Deleted]

Lorewise, Horde and Alliance Paladins aren't the same. Blood Elf Paladins are actually Blood Knights, and Tauren Paladins are Sun Walkers.

Player Druids aren't part of the Cenarion Circle, so they have race-based reasons to participate in the faction war.

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Pandaren from the Wandering Isle swore allegiance to either the Horde or the Alliance. All player Pandaren are either Huojin or Tushui, different factions that went their separate ways after leaving the Isle.

DK's are resurrected heroes. Once free from the Lich King's control, they simply went back to their old factions.

Neither scenario would apply to Demon Hunters. They chose to become Demon Hunters, their loyalty is to Illidan before either faction, and they have no reason to fight another Demon Hunter or participate in the faction conflict. They only want to hunt Demons.

So its doubtful that a Demon Hunter would venture to Pandaria to rescue King Varian's son, or to conquer the continent for Garrosh. Nor would he stay around and fight Sha, Mantid, or Mogu. He wouldn't give a shit about any of that. He would want to be in either a demon-infested zone, or in Outland.



The difference is that the Death Knights never chose to become Death Knights. To become a Demon Hunter, you have to dedicate your life to hunting and killing demons. It's pretty hard to live up to that if you're participating in a petty factional conflict.

You did not have to answer in such detail, those were rhetorical questions.

Whether Huojin or Tushui, they're still all Pandaren and have no reason to join a faction they barely know anything about and which pits them against each other. They are not forced to join the Alliance and the Horde, like the Worgen or the Goblins. They do it out of a sense of adventure. Huojin and Tushui don't hate each other. Every explanation Blizzard, especially Metzen, gave on this was unbelievable and unsatisfying.

Death Knights have a strong connection to each other, because they fought with each other when they were under the Lich King's control and they freed themselves together from that control. You can see that connection still in characters like Thassarian and Koltira.

Death Knights never chose to become Death Knights. But they are also not the most faction-loyal individuals. They are generally hated by their factions.

[Teriz]

You did not have to answer in such detail, those were rhetorical questions.

Whether Huojin or Tushui, they're still all Pandaren and have no reason to join a faction they barely know anything about and which pits them against each other. They are not forced to join the Alliance and the Horde, like the Worgen or the Goblins. They do it out of a sense of adventure. Huojin and Tushui don't hate each other. Every explanation Blizzard, especially Metzen, gave on this was unbelievable and unsatisfying.

Of course Pandaren are a race. A race of peopke will have different viewpoints, and different beliefs. We're talking about a class. A class that requires a commitment to a goal. That commitment is so intense that you blind yourself.

Death Knights have a strong connection to each other, because they fought with each other when they were under the Lich King's control and they freed themselves together from that control. You can see that connection still in characters like Thassarian and Koltira.

Death Knights never chose to become Death Knights. But they are also not the most faction-loyal individuals. They are generally hated by their factions.

It's important to note that despite Koltira and Thassarians friendship, they both place their factions ahead of their history. They are loyal soldiers, and they place duty above personal relationships.

Demon Hunters are also soldiers, but their eternal enemy is demons. They don't care about the Horde or the Alliance winning their war. They view their cause above faction. The eradication of the legion is all they care about.

That's what makes them awesome. You dismantle that, and they just become a class.