Bradley Manning verdict.

[PACOX]

Good riddance. Now let's get Snowden.

[Kraenen]

Should've been completely acquitted. The man is an american hero.

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That is batshit insane.

I'm sorry.

But that is batshit insane.

I truly want you to understand Arcanist, you're in the irrelevant minority. I want you to know, that big government you think is crushing you? Well it's not, but it is completely disregarding your insane, irrational position on issues.

Enjoy irrelevancy.

Responsibility is insane? That's a new one from a right winger.

[Moistmuffins]

I like how everyone who supported Anarchist early on in this thread has slowly disappeared due to his, well, rather out-there "arguments," if I can even call them that.

OT: Due to not knowing the full story initially, I was pretty miffed when he was being tried for all these crimes. Then I actually read into what he released and the amount of information that he released that was actually a crime compared to the total amount of information he released, and I fully believe he deserves every second. I'm all for releasing of the war crime information, but the unnecessary dump of classified information is highly dangerous to many people.

[Nikkosyia]

Just sad. The man is a hero because he exposed America's crimes for all to see, and his supporters are allowing him to be caged like an animal? And for what?

And yet Facebook, MySpace, Blizzard, and thousands of other companies get away with it because they SELL the same information.

[Arcanist]

Um.. No. Get lost. I'm not going to waste my life engaging with someone who thinks Medics are legitimate targets. Like seriously. It's self evident why that is madness to all but people with diseased minds. It's as legitimate opinion as like saying we should bring back Jim Crow because black / white integration has been a messy failure. It's batshit nuts and people who express mad opinions like that should have vegetables thrown at them, not engaged as a peer.

Let me put it another way, what you're writing is compelling people to shake their heads in disbelief at the utter insanity of it. They aren't inspired to engage with you. You're one of those people that makes mentally balanced people say "oh god... the internet is at it again....."

You don't have an argument.

All I'm saying is that voluntarily joining an organization (with the knowledge that you will have no control over your ultimate assignment, mind you) that is responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands innocent people over decades...an organization that engages in regime change, that destroyed TWO countries, that irradiated entire regions with depleted uranium munitions, all under the thin veneer of "freedom" and "fighting terrorism"...well that says a lot about the kind of person that joins and promotes that agenda.

[GreatOak]

The way he has been treated and neglected by our country has been absolutely disgraceful. True patriots rarely get the appreciation they deserve.

[Kellhound]

You don't have an argument.

All I'm saying is that voluntarily joining an organization (with the knowledge that you will have no control over your ultimate assignment, mind you) that is responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands innocent people over decades...an organization that engages in regime change, that destroyed TWO countries, that irradiated entire regions with depleted uranium munitions, all under the thin veneer of "freedom" and "fighting terrorism"...well that says a lot about the kind of person that joins and promotes that agenda.

And what does your lack of action against this say about you? My Poli Sci prof and I didnt often see eye-to-eye, but we respected each other because we were willing to step out of our comfort zones to actively support our view.

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The way he has been treated and neglected by our country has been absolutely disgraceful. True patriots rarely get the appreciation they deserve.

As they say, one man's patriot is another's traitor....

[chrisisvacant]

You don't have an argument.

All I'm saying is that voluntarily joining an organization (with the knowledge that you will have no control over your ultimate assignment, mind you) that is responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands innocent people over decades...an organization that engages in regime change, that destroyed TWO countries, that irradiated entire regions with depleted uranium munitions, all under the thin veneer of "freedom" and "fighting terrorism"...well that says a lot about the kind of person that joins and promotes that agenda.

You are fighting against lore instilled in the minds of the average american since the inception of the country. I hope you aren't losing sleep over not changing someone's mind here.

Accurate observation often is belied by tradition. Just sayin'. (And I commend you on having such a brave opinion whilst living in... Wyoming? lol)

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I like how everyone who supported Anarchist early on in this thread has slowly disappeared due to his, well, rather out-there "arguments," if I can even call them that.

OT: Due to not knowing the full story initially, I was pretty miffed when he was being tried for all these crimes. Then I actually read into what he released and the amount of information that he released that was actually a crime compared to the total amount of information he released, and I fully believe he deserves every second. I'm all for releasing of the war crime information, but the unnecessary dump of classified information is highly dangerous to many people.

His name is Arcanist. Also, I would argue that people who support his argument here (like me) are less likely to beat their head against blunt objects to prove their point. It matters not that anyone in this thread's opinion changes. You aren't fighting against the rising tide, you are sinking with it beneath the sea of indifference. As you were meant to do. :P

[ringpriest]

And yet Facebook, MySpace, Blizzard, and thousands of other companies get away with it because they SELL the same information.

And don't forget the endless stream of politicians and appointed officials cheerfully leaking secret information for political gain, most of them without any consequence at all. In the rare case where there is an uproar (like the Valerie Plame incident) the official involved gets off with a slap on the wrist compared to what Manning is facing.

[Deleted]

I will say this tho i respect the guy a hell of alot more then the hipster who flees to country's who do at best the same as the US and maybe far worse. Manning stayed to face the outcome like a man who is gonna preach his morals and principles should.

So whistleblower is now synonymous with hipster? Yeah... no. Weird people in the US use hipster to brand anyone they don't like. Insecure much?

[ringpriest]

That is batshit insane.

I'm sorry.

But that is batshit insane.

Blind, blanket rejection isn't an argument. It can, however, be an indication that your brain is so thoroughly wired into supporting a particular political group that your reasoning centers disengage. You just get a nice mental rush when you think "your side" is right and the "other side" is wrong - no actual reasoning involved.

I agree with Arcanist's basic point: someone who actively and willingly supports an organization bears a degree of responsibility for that organization's actions. Particularly if those actions are part of ongoing patterns of behavior or approved practices.

[Arcanist]

You are fighting against lore instilled in the minds of the average american since the inception of the country. I hope you aren't losing sleep over not changing someone's mind here.

Accurate observation often is belied by tradition. Just sayin'. (And I commend you on having such a brave opinion whilst living in... Wyoming? lol)

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His name is Arcanist. Also, I would argue that people who support his argument here (like me) are less likely to beat their head against blunt objects to prove their point. It matters not that anyone in this thread's opinion changes. You aren't fighting against the rising tide, you are sinking with it beneath the sea of indifference. As you were meant to do. :P

Nah not losing any sleep at all as this seems to be par for the course. I've only come across a small percentage of people who are willing to have an honest discussion, even though they may not agree with me. You're right about this mindset towards the US and the military being ingrained within most of its citizens.

And then Kellhound wonders why I don't "try harder"?

[Risale]

Its because he's been convicted of 19 offenses and each offense carries between 2 and 10 years depending on the crime (or if he plead guilty to one of them already). The sum of it is 136 years.

It's like how that guy in Ohio got life plus 1000 years. On the charge that carried life as a penalty, he was jailed for life. On all additional counts - for him it was like 700 or something - he plead guilty and was given the appropriate penalty for each of those.

Now you may think, logically, well if he's serving life, whats the point? It's judicial in nature. Since he is charged with a host of crimes, even if he is found guilty of the one that carries life, he must be found either guilty or not guilty of all the others... they can't procedurally leave them hanging. The sum of it came to 1000 years.

In manning's case, he escaped Aiding the Enemy, which came with a life sentence (or execution, which he was never in danger for). But the sum of the penalties for his lists of transgressions he was charged with adds up to 136.

More realistically, he'll probably get 50-80 years, which means he'll die in Prison, which is good, or get out in the late 21st century, which is also good.

I fully understand what you are saying but that still a daft way of doing things I mean come on life plus 1000 years wtf is that all about?
Can you honestly not see how weird this looks too people outside the US, this Manning guy and the 1 from Ohio are both guilty you want to lock him up forever okay so sentence him to life without the possibility of parole not this 136/1000 years crap.
What you have now is simply overkill and in a way that makes the US legal system look like a joke.

Now the following is the punishment for treason in the UK in the past.
To be hanged, drawn and quartered was from 1351 a penalty in England for men convicted of high treason, although the ritual was first recorded during the reigns of King Henry III (1216–1272) and his successor, Edward I (1272–1307). Convicts were fastened to a hurdle, or wooden panel, and drawn by horse to the place of execution, where they were hanged (almost to the point of death), emasculated, disembowelled, beheaded and quartered (chopped into four pieces). Their remains were often displayed in prominent places across the country, such as London Bridge. For reasons of public decency, women convicted of high treason were instead burnt at the stake.
Yes it maybe overkill however it makes a point and throwing meaningless numbers (and they are meaningless if the average lifespan of an white american male is 76) simply doesn't and you have to agree with that.

[Kellhound]

Nah not losing any sleep at all as this seems to be par for the course. I've only come across a small percentage of people who are willing to have an honest discussion, even though they may not agree with me. You're right about this mindset towards the US and the military being ingrained within most of its citizens.

And then Kellhound wonders why I don't "try harder"?

Yes, I do wonder, because the only time you know you will fail is when you fail to try. I have been able to influence political outcomes by shining light where the politicians and bureaucrats didnt want it shown, so I know it can be done. Therefore the excuse of "I do nothing because it will have no effect" rings hollow. That we are polar opposites doesn't phase me, your hypocracy does. Either become proactive yourself or quit bashing those who do not seek to change the status quo.

[Netherspark]

Law trumps morality once again.

[chrisisvacant]

Yes, I do wonder, because the only time you know you will fail is when you fail to try. I have been able to influence political outcomes by shining light where the politicians and bureaucrats didnt want it shown, so I know it can be done. Therefore the excuse of "I do nothing because it will have no effect" rings hollow. That we are polar opposites doesn't phase me, your hypocracy does. Either become proactive yourself or quit bashing those who do not seek to change the status quo.

It beggars the imagination why you haven't worked your political magic on the Executive branch by now.

[Kraenen]

Yes, I do wonder, because the only time you know you will fail is when you fail to try. I have been able to influence political outcomes by shining light where the politicians and bureaucrats didnt want it shown, so I know it can be done. Therefore the excuse of "I do nothing because it will have no effect" rings hollow. That we are polar opposites doesn't phase me, your hypocracy does. Either become proactive yourself or quit bashing those who do not seek to change the status quo.

There's nothing hypocritical about him.

[Bakis]

Law trumps morality once again.

Just some laws, the laws sure didnt trump when faced with the atrocities made by the US army and some intelligence branches.

[Kellhound]

It beggars the imagination why you haven't worked your political magic on the Executive branch by now.

You may have noted I have not been calling for the wholesale change in the US Government? So long as the Legislative and Executive branches are split in such a manner that no party controls all 3, I am content with gridlock.

[ringpriest]

Yes, I do wonder, because the only time you know you will fail is when you fail to try. I have been able to influence political outcomes by shining light where the politicians and bureaucrats didnt want it shown, so I know it can be done. Therefore the excuse of "I do nothing because it will have no effect" rings hollow. That we are polar opposites doesn't phase me, your hypocracy does. Either become proactive yourself or quit bashing those who do not seek to change the status quo.

What exactly is he supposed to do? Go protest at an Officially Designated Free Speech Zone? Support a political party that isn't in the "we automatically have ballot access" club? Contribute money or time to an organization like Occupy, that will be illegally subject to massive, co-ordinated govnerment infiltration and harassment? If he does, then he'd better watch it, or he'll end up as part of a group designated as 'terrorists' by a Fusion Center, and find himself on the No Fly List. (Hope he didn't have or want a career that required frequent flights...) Or are you suggesting he join up with some branch of the government and then leak incriminating info? (Somehow, I had the idea that you were opposed to that.)

If he is proactive in trying to change things, peacefully and within the system or otherwise, the last thing he should do is publicly admit to doing so.