Do you think Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street will lose his position ?

[rebecca191]

So let me get this straight... You whined for buffs and didn't get any, and because of that GC deserves to be fired?

That's a nice mature way to look at it.

For me it was the whole "you guys are just mad because we made healing harder" during Cata beta/live. Um. No. You just made healing "harder" in a stupid way (making heals very small and expensive while having raid bosses smack the raid with unavoidable AOE without giving any interesting mechanics for managing mana).

[Goretex]

WoW is bleeding subs because of the gaming market, not WoW itself as a game. Also people are having alot of real life things coming up than playing an online game.

[Notos]

I remember the days when there was little to no communication with devs on any kind of regular basis. Honestly I'm amazed GC is still at it, because his unofficial position also entails being the scapegoat for practically every complaint people have about the game, no matter how wild or uninformed. I would have thrown up my hands and given up dealing with internet crazies long ago.

[BrerBear]

For me it was the whole "you guys are just mad because we made healing harder" during Cata beta/live. Um. No. You just made healing "harder" in a stupid way (making heals very small and expensive while having raid bosses smack the raid with unavoidable AOE without giving any interesting mechanics for managing mana).

The Cata healing revamp was the BEST thing that ever happened to healing since Vanilla. It took a role which in Wrath had become mindless Big Heal button mashing with no consideration for mana *at all*, and turned it into a game where you actually needed to think and strategize to succeed.

And there were lots of interesting mechanics for managing mana. Your comments say a lot more about your ability than the design changes, which in hindsight were incredibly good.

[Thimagryn]

Put up a public face for Blizzard and the anonymous haters will spit on it. That's what I feel about GC getting all the hate directed at him. At least he hasn't had the misfortunes Jay Wilson had.

[Deleted]

Surprised this hasn't been locked. GC ftw though. Some of his replies are just spot on.

[jbombard]

Put up a public face for Blizzard and the anonymous haters will spit on it. That's what I feel about GC getting all the hate directed at him. At least he hasn't had the misfortunes Jay Wilson had.

Jay Wilson didn't have misfortune, that implies bad luck. Jay Wilson acted like a child and made inappropriate statements about someone in a public venue.
And he didn't even get fired or disciplined in any way.

GC on the other hand hasn't really done anything wrong. Sure the game seems to be making bad decision after bad decision after bad decision, but that isn't on GC. It is a team effort and we only see a teeny tiny fraction of the process. GC just gets a lot of hate because his comments are a little too honest for some people to handle.

[Yakshamash]

No. Even I would say "Yes" last year. But, I would like some butts kicked, but no GC, thanks. Put Jay Wilson on his place, I bet you would cry and pray for him to come back.

[Envojus]

Why don't people realize he is not at fault? Do people know how Businesses work?

Look. Greg Street is the lead system designer. Yep. And that's it. You know who you could blame? Yourselves. Every single one of you. Why? Just because he is the Lead System Designer, doesn't mean he has a vision, and turns the game into how he sees fit. That's not his Job. His job? The Marketing department does it's research, gives a shit ton of data and says:

"Look, the market demands this. The Stockholders demand this. We think if we do something about it, we can increase our profits/build positive PR/etc etc. How can we change the game to appeal to this? Find a way and implement it so we can achieve these results!"

[sandmoth12]

I hope he does. I believe that he lacks vision for good game design. His intuition is shallow, and he can't see deep into problems or solutions.

[glycerethe]

He won't, you can tell from how cocky he is, I voted yes, but he won't. Never liked him, I hope nobodys at his bed when he dies.

[rebecca191]

The Cata healing revamp was the BEST thing that ever happened to healing since Vanilla. It took a role which in Wrath had become mindless Big Heal button mashing with no consideration for mana *at all*, and turned it into a game where you actually needed to think and strategize to succeed.

And there were lots of interesting mechanics for managing mana. Your comments say a lot more about your ability than the design changes, which in hindsight were incredibly good.

I enjoyed the downranking/5SR healing style. BC was my favorite time in the game for healing, but I would say even Wrath was much better than Cata as a holy priest, several of my spells got equal use and at least it was fast paced instead of boring. Heroic 25m healing in Cata was pretty much spam AOE heals, hit a cooldown every x minutes for mana back, and hope the boss dies in time. The cheap heals were utterly useless with that style of damage since heals in general healed much less of the health pool compared to any other time in the game. I mean, what mana management? Cast a cheaper heal? Good luck raid healing with that in most hard mode fights. Use a mana cooldown? Unless a low damage period in the fight was coming and the mana would sit there unused, just press the CD button as soon as it's up if you'll get the full benefit. BC was so much more involved.

[Celista]

So let me get this straight... You whined for buffs and didn't get any, and because of that GC deserves to be fired?

That's a nice mature way to look at it.

No, way to assume though. I've also already talked about this in the thread.

A lot of people who defend GC don't actually know what he says/what happens in the PTR/beta forums, just like many people who do not like him blame him for things he has no control of. I blame him for the things he is responsible for.

Balance is a two way street--things are either overtuned or undertuned, but he's repeated enough mistakes and ignored player feedback along with saying some things that are just generally ignorant to game mechanics that he really should be held responsible for his own actions and the state of game balance. People rightly say that things have been a lot worse in the game balance wise, but they can also be a lot better, which means better testing and listening to player feedback.

[vesseblah]

A lot of people who defend GC don't actually know what he says/what happens in the PTR/beta forums, just like many people who do not like him blame him for things he has no control of. I blame him for the things he is responsible for.

Balance is a two way street--things are either overtuned or undertuned, but he's repeated enough mistakes and ignored player feedback along with saying some things that are just generally ignorant to game mechanics that he really should be held responsible for his own actions and the state of game balance.

For me it was the whole "you guys are just mad because we made healing harder" during Cata beta/live. Um. No. You just made healing "harder" in a stupid way (making heals very small and expensive while having raid bosses smack the raid with unavoidable AOE without giving any interesting mechanics for managing mana).

Healing was more boring before Cata revamps, so GC was right on that. At least for priest and shaman classes that I have experience of. Simply disagreeing with him isn't valid reason for anybody to get fired.

[Thimagryn]

Jay Wilson didn't have misfortune, that implies bad luck. Jay Wilson acted like a child and made inappropriate statements about someone in a public venue.
And he didn't even get fired or disciplined in any way.

To be brutally honest, the public eye was already on him waiting to catch on a slip up. If not for that, we never would have known it happened. It really was an unfortunate matter. He was talking to co-workers off-the-record. It wasn't like he was announcing this to the public or making tweets about it. The same kind of pressure is on GC and Dustin Browder, who the public is keenly watching at all times.

GC on the other hand hasn't really done anything wrong. Sure the game seems to be making bad decision after bad decision after bad decision, but that isn't on GC. It is a team effort and we only see a teeny tiny fraction of the process. GC just gets a lot of hate because his comments are a little too honest for some people to handle.

You don't know any of the devs or how they act outside the public eye, and the only reason you have any better image of him is because he hasn't slipped up. The good thing is that he probably knows better and is more careful about what he does or says.

[Deja Thoris]

I've seen GC use that very tactic, i.e. accusing players who question the direction of the game of having a selfish view. Considering the unequivocal decline of World of Warcraft I don't think it's fair to dismiss dissenting voices on the basis that they're jerks who simply want their own way.

Really, the game is almost 10 years old. Ever stopped to think about how much worse the decline could have been without people like him?

Simply pointing to sub numbers in a vacuum without considering the other factors surrounding it is stupidly shortsighted.

[Deleted]

Really, the game is almost 10 years old. Ever stopped to think about how much worse the decline could have been without people like him?

Addressed that in an earlier post.

The main argument in defense of GC is that he isn't responsible for the loss of subs? If the environment you do business in changes and your product becomes less attractive because of said changes, then to continue to be successful you need to modify your product to remain relevant. It's conjecture, but different decisions could have seen WoW continue to grow rather than decline. Sometimes the odds are against you, and you can still triumph. Fanboys act as if GC is defending the ALAMO.

1. If Cata hadn't forced out players with less time/skill with overtuned heroics wouldn't we be in a different world right now?
2. If MoP hadn't gated everything behind rep and taken away catch up gear wouldn't we be in a different world right now?
3. If WoW's aging had been addressed with a migration to WoW2 wouldn't we be in a different world right now?

People in positions of influence are supposed to get there on merit and stay there on merit, and when things stop working it's time to ~PACK IT UP~. It's nothing personal, it's just how life is. You cannot excuse those in control of a declining product/service/whatever. There's no excuse that you can make for repeated failures in business. You lose your job.

[Ronduwil]

Fanboys act as if GC is defending the ALAMO.

And haters act as if the consequences of GC's actions are as dire to players as losing the ALAMO was. This is only a game, and GC is only human. If you fire someone every time they make a mistake you'll always have someone who has never made mistakes to learn from.

[jazzyy]

Addressed that in an earlier post.

can i just make sure what im reading is correct- you think that if WoW doesn't continually rise in subs the person in charge is failing? can you design a game for me where eventually in 2100 i hit 15.3 billion subs? it's clear you have no clue what you're talking about- WoW is still incredibly relevant or we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.

[Vargas]

He won't, you can tell from how cocky he is, I voted yes, but he won't. Never liked him, I hope nobodys at his bed when he dies.

I feel the same about you and others like you; thankfully I don't think you guys will have any problems dying alone.