Can the Alliance carry its own storyline?

[Buu]

Hang on one sec. This is wrong and you know it. Currently the Alliance story is dominated by Humans.
The Worgen and Genn. Not seen or even heard of. The Draenei and Velen, no development and the only instance of Velen being mentioned is not followed up.

Whereas every race so far on the Horde side has had will have development in 5.4.

The lack of diversity amongst the Alliance racial storyline and identity is something I don't I've seen anybody dispute simply because it's obvious within the game.

No, it's NOT WRONG. In the Horde the story is ALSO dominated by Orcs and now Trolls. BOTH FACTIONS HAVE A FAVORED RACE INSIDE THEIR LORE. It's not happening "only inside alliance". I'll just save myself the annoyance and start to put more people in my ignore list, because you're not worth of my time.

[luccadeo]

Also forgot to add how the dwarfs are now united (dark iron and wild hammer and the iron forge ones) - but every dark iron dwarf you meet outside of ironforge is still fully hostile to any dwarf or alliance player, while they should be (at worst) neutral since almost all dark iron dwarfs now live in iron forge - not to mention that there are almost no dark iron dwarfs IN iron forge, despite lore sayings that most of their population is now in iron forge.

Or how most of Stormwind got repaired by now since the starting of Cata (when deathwing attacked Stormwind), but none of it is actually reflected in the game - there are still huge molten lava claw marks of deathwing at the gates of stormwind, while (story wise) nearly all damage done to SW has been repaired (not counting NEW damage done in 5.4).

Or how the high elves and the night elves finally reunited, and night elves not only accepted arcane magic but also allowed high borne to move back into night elf cities - but again, just like with the dwarves, none of this is actually displayed in WoW. There are barely 3 high borne elves in Teldrassil, if even that.

I really can't think of more examples at 6 AM, but it is definitely a fact that Alliance lore is lately just implied and "in the books" - while Horde stories tend to be fully implemented in WoW for all to see.

Don't forget that the IF airport is still under attack. No phasing has been done to show that the DIs are a part of IF now.

[josykay]

Don't forget that the IF airport is still under attack. No phasing has been done to show that the DIs are a part of IF now.

Aren't those Dark Irons renegades, serving Ragnaros? So far as I know we drive them back and later arrest the conspiratorial chancellor. Why not phasing that out? I 'dont know.. but we could ask the same question about every questing area in general.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Love it how Horde players always seperate the "Old Horde" (Warcraft 1+2) and the "new Horde".
Yet "Alliance of Lorderaen" and "The Alliance" get grouped together when talking about faction heroes gone bad.

Arthas - Alliance of Lorderaen. Not the alliance we know
Kel'thuzad - Alliance of Lorderaen, left Kirin Tor and became the Lich Kings (Ner'zhul - OLD Horde) servant.
Illidan - non, since Night Elves weren't part of the Alliance then. And they also weren't part of the Alliance when Malfurion BANISHED Illidan from Kalimdor
Kael'thas - Was about to be executed by the Garithos and the remains of the Alliance of Lorderaen. Kirin Tor not lifting a finger. He only helped the alliance cause of old debts between High Elves & Stromgarde.

Also, how is Wrath an Alliance expansion?
Sure Arthas who belonged to a different Alliance than the current one was the LK (after mindstabbing Ner'zhul in his mind in the novel), but most of the scourge was created when Ner'zhul was LK. Not to mention that the major factions going after the LK were 2 NEUTRAL organizations. The Argent Crusade and the Knights of the Ebon Blade. Alliance & Horde only going there cause the LK assaulted the Alliance and Horde capital city.
Questing wise there was nothing about alliance dominance. Think the only anti-horde quests in the game were Battle for the Undercity and the quest in Howling Fjord where we destroy some Forsaken plague machines.
Wrath was both factions with the help of 2 neutral organizations dealing with the LK.

Cata was Horde takes over many contested zones (to balance leveling zones out), Thrall marriage, Old Gods/Deathwing and ending the xpack with Theramore.
Alliance had hardly any development. Worgen get shunned away to Darnassus to 1 tree, 1 3-house base in Blasted Lands with 2-3 npcs and 1-2 quests. Goblins get formerly "contested" Aszhara with Bilgewater Harbor as a city (not capital) to play around in when leveling.
Maybe if we a named alliance NPC confronted Benedictus instead of Thrall and Worgen getting some development after their starting zone like the goblins, it would be somewhat more fair.

MoP. 5.0 was somewhat neutral. 5.1 is almost 50/50 alliance/horde wise (although Dagger in the Dark was imo the superior faction scenario)
5.2 is 50/50 again with the "debatable" alliance fist pumping that is known as The Purge of Dalaran.
5.3 was better developed for the Horde, Alliance got shafted.
5.4 seems thus far to be hordecentric, with MAYBE alliance development of the SoO aftermath in 5.5

That's something I've been astounded by in this thread. Horde players point to WC3 and Arthas as proof the alliance has lore. But they're not acknowledging that Alliance has no lore going forward.

[Sierra85]

But they're not acknowledging that Alliance has no lore going forward.

They can always create a new story, new lore and new adventures. That's one of the things that makes wow great, it's ability to adapt and expand.

[Millie]

NO, I'll make a border thing and put it in all caps, so you can't pretend anymore it wasn't said (how ridiculous of me, youactually ALWAY PRETEND TO NEVER READ THAT):

I PLAYED CHARACTERS IN BOTH FACTIONS THROUGH MoP, THE PROBLEM ISN'T BLIZZARD'S, IT'S YOURS. BECAUSE YOU'RE CONCENTRATING TOO MUCH IN CONTAINING HORDE DEVELOPMENT THAT YOU'RE MISSING YOUR OWN FACTION DEVELOPMENT. ALLIANCE DEVELOPED A LOT, THE RACES OF ALLIANCE HAD THEIR SPOTLIGHT AS MUCH AS THE RACES OF THE HORDE HAD THEIR SPOTLIGHTS INSIDE THEIR FACTION.
YOU'RE WORRYING TOO MUCH IN BEING BACK TO VANILLA RATE OF 65% CONTENT FOR ALLIANCE AND 35% FOR HORDE, AND MISSING YOUR PRESENT 51%, WHILE BITCHING ABOUT 14% EXTRA STUFF HORDE RECEIVES TODAY. THE BALANCE CAME TO STAY, DEAL WITH IT, BECAUSE IT'S NOT CHANGING.

Seriously, there is so much to discuss, it's annoying that for the last 2 years EVERY headline list contain at least ONE Alliance whining threat. Don't you people NEVER get tired of being Emo? Because you already tired Horde and the non-emo share of your own faction.

I know you grew up being able to scream until you got your way, it's how arrogance like yours builds up, but it doesn't work the same over text.

To say that we ignore our story is flat out bullshit. Our story has been nothing but Varian turning into how Jaina USED to be, a personality swap isn't at all deep. Then the rest of our story developed into help you fix your problems.

Hey Varian, how can I help in Pandaria... oh wait you mailed me and told me to keep doing dailies to help the Horde, thanks.

[Scummer]

No, it's NOT WRONG. In the Horde the story is ALSO dominated by Orcs and now Trolls. BOTH FACTIONS HAVE A FAVORED RACE INSIDE THEIR LORE. It's not happening "only inside alliance". I'll just save myself the annoyance and start to put more people in my ignore list, because you're not worth of my time.

Blood Elves had a large portion or 5.1 and practically of 5.2, they are also showing up in 5.4. Or did you forget?
This isn't simply about more races simply appearing more than others. Unlike their racial equivalents Worgen and Draenei just flat out do not receive any story.

Off the top of my head:

Anduin - Human
Varian - Human
Jaina - Human
Moira - Dwarf
Tyrande - Night Elf
Mekkatorque - Gnomes

3 Humans along with 3 other races.

Garrosh - Orc
Thrall - Orc
Vol'jin - Troll
Sylavans - Forsaken
Baine - Tauren
Lor'themar - Blood Elf
Rommath - Blood Elf

2 Orcs along with 4 other races with 2 Blood Elves to counter balance the Orcs.

Operation: Shieldwall - Human headed multi racial faction
Dominance Offensive - Orc headed multi racial faction
Kirin Tor Offensive - Human head multi racial faction
Sunreaver Onslaught - Blood Elf faction

Job done.

- - - Updated - - -

I know you grew up being able to scream until you got your way, it's how arrogance like yours builds up, but it doesn't work the same over text.

He is one of the worst posters in this thread. As it stands his contribution to this thread has been "ALLIANCE ARE WHINING" without actually arguing why people who say there is a problem are wrong and instead simply tells them they're wrong. He got close to couples posts ago, but when I replied he told me he'd stick his fingers in his ears because obviously he can't possibly be wrong.

I can understand if people believe the problems in the story are not as pronounced, but he flat out denies they exist.
I can look at forums like SoL that had some of the best lore posters I've seen on a Warcraft forum where people there agree that there's a problem, they just don't like constantly reading about it on the forums. Which is understandable.

[Odina]

yea lets take some villages from the horde while they prepare a weapon to anihilate anythin they want

You do realize whats in game at the moment is the robot cat and gathering the plans layng around right? I'm not talking baout the entire expac there it was about the 5.4 pre SOO questline that we were given.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

They can always create a new story, new lore and new adventures. That's one of the things that makes wow great, it's ability to adapt and expand.

They can, there's also lore they can bring back.

But plain and simple Blizz has no desire to appear bias against theor favored faction, even if it means being bias against 1/2 the playerbase.

[Deleted]

No, it's NOT WRONG. In the Horde the story is ALSO dominated by Orcs and now Trolls. BOTH FACTIONS HAVE A FAVORED RACE INSIDE THEIR LORE. It's not happening "only inside alliance". I'll just save myself the annoyance and start to put more people in my ignore list, because you're not worth of my time.

Babby's first troll? Or is it a part of an ongoing trolling effort?

You may claim as often as you would like that Alliance has just as much enjoyable content and storytelling potential as the Horde does...

...but so far a regular Alliance player - when presented with what Guild Wars 2 has provided to a fantasy human city state and race - knows that a decision between Stormwind and Divinity's Reach is not a case of equalized alternative.

[FuxieDK]

At no point did I say "Horde bias". I even said that Garrosh was a world problem, so not just Horde lore...

However, this is where you are wrong..
Garrosh is NOT a world problem..

Garrosh is no more a problem to Alliance, than Varian Wrynn is to Horde.. The problem is, Wrynn IS NOT a problem for Alliance, but Garrosh IS a problem for Horde..

Garrosh is a purely internal matter, and Alliance have no business meddling with it. Horde don't interfeer with Alliance political matters, and Alliance should extend the same curtisy to Horde.

[Deleted]

However, this is where you are wrong..
Garrosh is NOT a world problem..

Garrosh is no more a problem to Alliance, than Varian Wrynn is to Horde.. The problem is, Wrynn IS NOT a problem for Alliance, but Garrosh IS a problem for Horde..

Garrosh is a purely internal matter, and Alliance have no business meddling with it. Horde don't interfeer with Alliance political matters, and Alliance should extend the same curtisy to Horde.

Garrosh made sure that he was an Azerothian problem, when he nuked Theramore and went on a WMDs search. The rebellion is an internal issue, Garrosh wanting to destroy the Alliance and make Azeroth his to control is not.

[wych]

They can always create a new story, new lore and new adventures. That's one of the things that makes wow great, it's ability to adapt and expand.

They can, but most of the time they don't in the last 2 expansions with the alliance.

The Alliance is sitting on a shit ton of heroes who've done literally nothing for years and years simply because Blizzard can't be fucked or fit it into their horde storyline.

[Deleted]

Nope, he is a world problem. Hence the reason the Alliance are involved. If he isn't stopped, he plans on taking over Azeroth. I'd say that classes as more than an internal Horde issue.

He is right on some level - Blizzard did such a piss-poor job at explaining in-game on the level of faction leaders and lore characters as to how it is urgent for Alliance to dispose of Garrosh, that sudden help from Alliance seems like an 'I'M BEING RANDOM' endeavour.

[wych]

No, it's NOT WRONG. In the Horde the story is ALSO dominated by Orcs and now Trolls. BOTH FACTIONS HAVE A FAVORED RACE INSIDE THEIR LORE. It's not happening "only inside alliance". I'll just save myself the annoyance and start to put more people in my ignore list, because you're not worth of my time.

Baine, Lorthemar, Vol'jin and Sylvanas have all had serious lore love in the last 2 expansions with their characters developed and storylines based around them.

The alliance got 1 scenario where Moira shows up at the end to kill a troll.

[Deleted]

Baine, Lorthemar, Vol'jin and Sylvanas have all had serious lore love in the last 2 expansions with their characters developed and storylines based around them.

The alliance got 1 scenario where Moira shows up at the end to kill a troll.

Before that, Horde leadership was a walking lore joke. Lor'themar Who?

[sidenorna]

- Hagara is a fucking female worgen, how is that horde? Don't ask me, how a worgen can be a shaman, though...
- Zul'jin was Amani.. They were NEVER part of, nor tied to Horde.. Go watch v4.2 trailer once more.
- Deathbringer Saurfang is IMO more tied to Alliance (raised as a DK by LK, which is Aliance centered lore) than Horde tied. Just because he was an orc, doesn't make him tied to the Horde per say. Senior, yes, not so much Junior.

Cho'gal and Teron, I agree on.. Gurthogg... I'm not quite sure on how to place him...

http://wowpedia.org/Hagara_the_Stormbinder She is an Orc.
Zul'jin was part of the horde in the second war.
Death Knights were orgenally made by the horde, then made by the burning legion, who then taught the The lich King how to make them.
Also Saurfang younger was being trained to be the horde war chief....
Cho'gal, and Teron were major forces in the the horde in the the second war.

Now you could argue all you want about how the troll raid bosses are not part of the horde, then you have to throw out all the dragons, elemental lords, and Illidan from the allies. llidan never was part of the alllies, and was thrown out by the night elves 10,000 years ago.

[wych]

Before that, Horde leadership was a walking lore joke. Lor'themar Who?

Before that and since that Alliance leadership has been a joke.

Genn, Velen, Mekatorque, Falstad (Metzen didn't even know he was fucking alive), Tyrande, Crowley are all missing in action and most haven't even been mentioned since they were put into the game.

[ariakul]

You want to know why it didn't happen? Mass complaining by Alliance players that "it's not what we want!" The scenario happened since the questline was pretty much already finished, but due to overwhelming negative reactions the devs didn't included it as originally intended. This is the problem with Alliance lore. The players have put the writers into a position where they know nothing they do will please them, even complete annihilation of the Horde. Horde bias in MoP is purely the fault of the players on the Alliance side, and with the kind of revisionist history victim complex bullcrap we see now in every thread (Vanilla and Wrath were Horde biased? wat?) this false viewpoint is getting worse and worse, and the writing will only suffer further because of it.

You want to save Alliance lore? The Alliance players need to get their boot off the throat of their own faction's storyline.

Blizzard takes votes on what the Alliance story will be from the players and adjusts accordingly? thats news to everyone who plays the game.

When you need to resort to name calling and derogatory comments to alliance, you lost your debate. I'm horde btw.

It took alliance 5 years to fix the bridge in redridge.............are the gnomes EVER going to retake Gnomeregon? probably not in our lifetimes.

[Deleted]

Genn, Velen, Mekatorque, Falstad (Metzen didn't even know he was fucking alive), Tyrande, Crowley are all missing in action and most haven't even been mentioned since they were put into the game.

Genn only came to the game in Cataclysm. Mekatorque had his own patch story with the conquering of upper Gnomeregan before Cataclysm and now is on the Siege of Orgrimmar. Tyrande is one of the most developed character in novels and appears in-game time to time (patch 5.1 for example).

Sure, Blizzard needs to focus more on the racial leaders story and leave the faction nonsense behind once and for all, but take note, before Cataclysm, Horde were all about the orcs with some Forsaken and Blood Elf story (minus their own Regent) in the middle, nothing more.