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  1. #1

    Celestial buffs needed for 10M normal Twins?

    The title pretty much says it all. I'm the raidleader for a guild that is progressing 10m normal ToT. We killed Dark Animus on sunday and is going to go for Iron Qon tonight, so after that it's time for Twins and i have been studying tactics for it and trying to learn the patterns of the Celestial as much as possible so i can do them for us, but i'm wondering if they are needed or if their just a waste of time? And if you want to use them, is it some that is more important than the others?
    Last edited by Sleivert; 2013-08-06 at 09:23 AM.

  2. #2
    On normal you don't need any of them. Maybe just Yulon if your healers are struggling with mana.

    They are mostly there for nuclear infernos (HC only)

  3. #3
    im in no way in an elitist guild... but on normal mode, this boss we never tried to wipe on on normal when we got to it, we one shot it, and continued doing so every week. Guides can make this boss seem a lot more complicated on normal than it really is. You can really use the buffs as you please, it is a very forgiving boss on normal and there is room for lots of mistakes.

  4. #4
    On normal, they are useful for getting more time for Lei Shen.

  5. #5
    They are definately vital for the heroic mode encounter. For a progression kill on Normal, I would suggest running Chi-Ji during Day (Suen) and again during Dusk to damage both twins. By killing Suen quickly, you will disable Lu'lin's Tidal Wave mechanic. You can start running Xuen's pattern after the beginning of Dusk to time his slowing effect with the first Tidal Wave, slowing it down dramatically.

    For Normal, both Yulon and Niuzao are optional. If your healers and DPS are struggling during Day/Dusk, consider activating Yulon to top off HP and mana pools.

    Vixsin of Life in Group 5 made a quick diagram of the celestial patterns; check it out here. The same patterns work for both Normal and Heroic.
    Last edited by Keldion; 2013-08-06 at 09:37 AM.
    Back when dot snapshotting was a thing, I wrote this piece of junk.

  6. #6
    The only ones that are useful on normal are cranes for extra dps and Yulon if your healers are going OOM and maybe the tiger/slow one for tidal force in last phase but on normal its not really needed

  7. #7
    To be honest the only time you'll want celestial buffs on normal is when it changes to day phase. The raid damage until a comet spawns can be quite high. Having said that its nothing you can't use normal raid cooldowns to get through.

    Really the keys to this fight are:
    - Staying spread for the tears / cosmic barrage (can never remember which is which :/)
    - Not healing the person tanking the beast (or at least understanding which heals trigger the debuff)
    - Dragging night bitch off to a corner when she does tidal force,

    Get this right and its almost a tank and spank.

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Omertocracy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    On normal they are absolutely not necessary, the damage is barely intense enough to think about 3 healers at 500 ilvl and the enrage timer is like a week. They are beneficial to learn however. If you trust your lowest dpser to not royally fuck it up, send them in each one to learn how it goes and the patterns. But if you are feeling a bit iffy, don't even bother with them. Normal is the exact same as LFR, you just gotta avoid green fog and not heal the tank with the add on it.

    More important is learning when to avoid the fogs, when to spread for the night phase, and comet humping day phase.

  9. #9
    This boss is a complete loot pinata after you get a progression kill on Iron Qon. We went in at the end of our raid after getting Iron Qon down and just said "screw it lets give it a try before raid end". We then proceeded to one shot the boss and get progression kill with no one dying. It's stupid easy and doesn't even require using the celestials on normal mode.

    Healers just need to be savvy and aware to do minimal healing (heal only when really necessary and use big heals to minimise getting the debuff stacks) on whichever tank has the nightmare beast on Suen's night phase. Tanks need to be aware of taunting Suen when the other gets a beast. Also on day phase taunting at 2 stacks of the Fan of Flames debuff and dragging her to the comets. All DPS need to do is pewpew, spread out on night phase and avoid the green trails that put you to sleep. Its an easy kill.

  10. #10
    Not needed. We killed them first week patch came out without using those buffs.

  11. #11
    Pit Lord
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    We 2 shot twins normal and everyone was scratching their heads afterwards.
    Extremely low tuned late boss, it will just fall over, celeistals or not :P

  12. #12
    Just be careful with two things:
    - The healers shouldn't kill themselves during night phase
    - The beginning of the day phase is when you want to use your first raid cooldowns.

    You don't really need to use Celestial buffs but Chi ji is a dps buff so it's fine to use it during day phase and dusk phase and maybe Yu'lon once during day phase or dusk phase to top the mana of your healers.

  13. #13
    Like Gearshifter, we also oneshot the fight on the very first pull ever on normal mode. (and haven't wiped on it to this day). And we are by no means an super guild either. (We currently have 2HC's dead)

    As for the celestials ... I would suggest to go into LFR, and at the pull run straight to the sides to click that thing.. and actually go in there yourself. Just try it out a few times, doesnt matter if you fail. Practise it.

    On LFR hardly ever anyone bothers, and on normal it's certainly not needed either. But it helps, so might aswell use it.

  14. #14
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Trinity, FL
    I think our kill (first time, oneshot) we had somebody use the Tiger, but honestly I didn't pay much attention. The fight seems SUPER easy, other than the tank-specific stuff I pretty much had no idea what was going on (like I have no idea what Tidal Wave does, it didn't seem to do anything to me when tanking her). Ironically my first LFR kill we hit berserk because nobody used the celestials, but boss died due to DoTs on it before she killed the raid.
    Raids & Dungeons Moderator | Normal Voice | Mod Voice

  15. #15
    I'd say that on normal this is the easiest boss in the instance, yes, even more so than Jin'rokh.

    One shot this boss the first time we reached her which was kinda anti-climactic considering how she's the boss before Lei Shen.

    First phase, dodge sleeping gases, don't heal the tank on the add and if you need it, summon out the cranes to make it go faster.

    Second phase, swap every 2 - 3 stacks, drag her to the meteors to melt them and reduce her damage, don't stand in the fire. Summon Yu'lon if you need mana (you shouldn't)

    Third phase, pop hero/lust burn fire bitch then the next, collect loot.
    The confusion caused when one's mind
    overrides the body's basic
    desire to choke the living shit out of
    some jerk who desperately needs it

  16. #16
    We have an Enhancer or me as mage activating it. We try to go the rota: Burst with CDs->activate.
    So the fight starts. After 30 sec all CDs and trinketprocs are out. Then we go Xuen. Try to make it 20 sec before a Starwave (this white star flying around and hitting people)
    30 sec before transition we get Niazou. It helps a little bit for the tank with add and to get stability in the raid.
    When Suen appears we BL and nuke the shit out of her. After BL expires we get Yulon and Chiji. The order depends on the mana of the healer. If they are oom after BL then first yulon. If mana is ok then first Chiji.
    When Lulin comes back we take xuen for the first tidalwave. Then Chiji again.
    Then Suen should die.
    If u get a second tidal wave take Niazou.
    Second Yulon only if your healers have problems.
    All in all you come to a point where u see that sending a dd for activating is more loss then win. But until then u should be fine.

  17. #17
    Dreadlord Kaga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Aberdeen, Scotland
    As some have mentioned, you don't actually need any on normal, we accidentally 1-shot on our first try w/out 'em, and we're by no means a super-1337-pro guild.
    But it's pretty simple overall.

    P1- we use red after everyone's burst dps is done, about the same time as the first tears to deal 5% hp dmg to both mobs.
    P2- we use green to let the healers get back to Facebook
    Yellow is helpful on this phase if your healers need that extra hand.
    P3- Preveiousy we'd open with blue to slow time an allow people to not eat tidal waves, and follow it with red for prodips.
    These days we go straight to red to land killing blows on each mob!
    Kaga, raid leader of Shafted, Ragnaros-EU.

  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire Lumiair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Not in the best guild ever by any means, but I'm pretty sure we 2-3 shot this because they just make it so easy. Even killing Lu'lin or which ever the first of the two is before 2nd phase the healing never got intense enough without Ice Comets to wipe the raid. Chi'Ji is really the only one that's helpful simply because why not kill them faster? Niuzau is mostly for HC, and Zuen is nice, but not necessary. Yu'lon is really the only helpful one if heals are struggling

    You guys should be fine no worries! And good luck!

  19. #19
    do you need them? no. this is actually the easiest boss in the raid, probably even more so than jin'rohk.

    do they help? sure. start the cranes pattern about 10s before the first tears of the sun. then you can do the dragon (optional) later in the phase for some mana.
    active the dragon again as soon as the third phase starts, and if you have time go straight into the cranes.

    if you 2 heal, have your lowest dps do them. if you 3 heal, have a healer do it since there's not a whole lot to heal most of the time.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaga View Post
    P2- we use green to let the healers get back to Facebook
    I had to lol at that :-D

    We one shot these as well on our first visit and everyone was very 'wtf' afterwards. We were supposed to use the mana one at end of P2, but RL forgot to mention it (was probably still recovering from the shock of managing to dodge the tornadoes on Iron Qon) so we never did. Not a terribly well tuned boss.

    No, you don't need to use them - but they help so you might as well use them (at least the DPS and Mana buffs)

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